320kbps MP3s for CDs

[Warmaster]

Hi all, Im working towards the path of CDs as a medium.
However, I have got a question. When it comes to determining 320kbps mp3s, how do you go about it? Listening using headphones? Encoders etc? :icon_confused:
How do you tell if its an authentic 320kbps ala vinyl?

[meaker]

You can normally hear the difference.

Its normally encoded as well and tells you its 320.

[andy85]

yea thats right...you'll definately hear the difference in the highs mids n lows

[Vascog]

the highs will sound crisper, clearer, the bass will be warmer

[Warmaster]

Thanks for the replies guys. Well, I feel it's kinda subjective when comparing an original 320kbps with another that's of lower quality. Especially with the VBR ones. MAybe I guess I need time to get the hang of it. :icon_mrgreen:

I be uploading Sunlounger's White Sand at the 320kbps sections. That ones a VBR but does not state 320. It sounds real good though. Please do get it and tell me if its 320kbps HQ standards.

[Alex E]

So if I understand this right (which I seriously doubt) VBR is seriously worse quality than VBR? Even when it's (like I always do) encoded at level 0 with a range of 192-320 kbps? I don't believe that, only the most useless things are removed at that level, right (silences, sounds under human hearing level, etc)?

[Arcana]

hmm, burning 320 on a medium...its going to take up considerable amounts of space as well.

[Warmaster]

I don't know really.
I find that the VBR formats are great. Lots of vinyl copies here are VBR and they play terrific with the volume way up.
For example, Lange vs. Gareth Emery's Another You, Another Me 320kbps is not as good as the VBR. However, I just think its the recording. You can find that on the Singles section of this forum. Furthermore, the VBR's file size is way smaller than the 320kbps. I am not sure how compression affects a song.

I have many hip-hop VBRs too and they play as good as the 320kbps. That's why Im stumped and would really like to find out from you guys just exactly how to really tell if a song is true high quality or "club quality."

Anybody?

[Brownpvp]

i use Encoders

[Jolsta]

As a matter of principle 320 is always better than VBR, the encoding principle is the same, but for VBR the bit-rate is determined per frame (1/29th of a second), while for a 320 CBR, the bit-rate is the same for all frames. So, if the encoder decides 320 is not required it will encode at a lower bit-rate. This judgment is the judgment of the programmer of the encoder. His decisions need not be 100% correct, since he is trading off quality for size (in the VBR part). B.t.w. the lame encoder will encode at higher bit-rates than 320, only one decoder (MAD-decoder) will decode these MP3's though!

[Warmaster]

Correct, only if all else remains constant.

Thing is some VBRs sound better on speakers and headphones than the 320. Not just trance but for other genres as well.

[Jolsta]

Correct, only if all else remains constant.

Thing is some VBRs sound better on speakers and headphones than the 320. Not just trance but for other genres as well. This is not possible, in the sense that it's not due to the fact that VBR is better than CBR 320, it isn't!!! I don't think it's the fact that they are VBR that makes them sound better. Did you check, whether they were stereo or joint stereo? Also the encoder used to create the MP3 will have a huge influence. Even between versions, LAME (an open source en/decoder) produces MP3's of differing quality... When you want to talk about comparing VBR and CBR 320, you need to know, which encoder was used, also Stereo or Joint Stereo. !!! Joint Stereo will in general give a better sound quality than Stereo !!! For an explanation of this counter-intuitive statement, see http://harmsy.freeuk.com/mostync/

[Tranzi]

the highs will sound crisper, clearer, the bass will be warmer

Thats right. the size of the file has a big difference aswell. Overall you just know when you hear it. Usually Full in length and smooth flowing warm feeling. Sometimes you notice this also by the beat and the highs. listen carfually. Does the beat and highs last longer. Eg. Hear the base and high and then that wave sound afterwards. Does it last long. or you could compare the tune with Wave formate and listen to the difference.

[Jolsta]

Thats right. the size of the file has a big difference aswell. Overall you just know when you hear it. Usually Full in length and smooth flowing warm feeling. Sometimes you notice this also by the beat and the highs. listen carfually. Does the beat and highs last longer. Eg. Hear the base and high and then that wave sound afterwards. Does it last long. or you could compare the tune with Wave formate and listen to the difference. Well, I dug in some more and found that it's probably much more complicated than everybody assumes... For starters, statements like "it sounds crisper" or "it sounds warmer" and the like are just very subjective statements. What one person might experience as being crispier or warmer for that matter, might in fact be distortion or other artifacts of encoding. The only way is to ABX the samples and compare them (digitally) to the original source. There's also the Joint Stereo vs. Stereo issue. This thread is very interesting http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=30637&hl . In this context Trance might be vunerable to artifacts produced by JS resulting from Flangers and Delays, which produce L/R-time-shifts, leading to cancellation effects, worsening the performance of JS. Then there is the issue of the encoder used. LAME is proven to perform better/worse between VBRV0/CBR320 over different version of the encoder, and I'm not talking main versions here, but behind the "comma". So without any serious research into this and making sure that things are evaluated in a very controlled environment, any statement in this respect (the VBR/CBR issue) should be taken with a grain of salt (that also is true for my own statements in the above!!!). How problematic things are is shown by the (endless, but good) discussions in this thread: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=39314 . I don't think anybody has come to the bottom of this. @ Vascog I'm currently listening to your On Heavens Wings mix, CBR320 - 48khz - JS, and it's great (sounds great too!!!). You van actually see in the frequency analysis the difference between stuff from CD and Vinyl!

[Pieces]

Its very hard to tell between a 320 and a 192 really.. you need to use Adobe Audition or another program to spectrum analysis...

Vinyl and digital / cd are different of course becaues vinyl is not 100% constant and has crackles!

[trancewarrior]

Great advice guys - most informative. Helps allot

[raulicio]

That's right!
For every day use, and for headphones and laptops, VBR is the best!

[performa630]

People who insist that they can hear the difference between a 320kbps MP3 and an uncompressed AIFF make me laugh. At that point, the difference in sound quality is completely indistinguishable. I'm not a huge fan of VBR, personally, but others seem to like it.

[sgaap]

that the human ear can't hear any improvement from 320kbps mp3's above 192kbps...

[padlad]

some program can tell u, but u can learn to hear the difference!!