Spamming in Upcoming Releases?!

Propeller · Dec 1, 2020

Magnevi said:
Yeah, well maybe limit it to even 1 per day.

I mean, if Esturea comes with something new, that topic should be hot and near the top, right? And not with 20 topics above it, loads with 1 reply saying "added releasedate". Usually a post from the original thread creator himself. But this isn't a database-site, but a discussion-board.

Also, maybe as rule, when you post a topic, you must include a story about the track, why you post it, why others should check it out. Something. If somebody just posts a thread with a video, we delete the topic.... Harsh... but it works?

I think it's important. If the forum bores people, it will die out. I think the thread-spam is one the things that demotivates.

Yes, exactly. Limiting to one post per day is the only thing that will make a difference as far as I can see. As things stand the TAR account is using the forum for free advertisements. On any other site they would have to pay for advertising and unless tougher rules are brought into place they will continue to spam purely because it makes business sense. This is the case for all spammers.

I suspect the Sashamlenik account is employed by one or more labels to promote releases too... just look at his posts - pre-order here, available to buy now.... He also doesn't post links to individual tracks but an entire episode of FSOE, which you have to scroll through to find the track. Maybe this practice can be banned too? If anyone is really desperate to share something like this then they should cut from the set and then post.
It's probably not possible to demand that each post carries a story though, how would anyone police that, who has the time to do it?!

Gagi - I don't understand some of the points you make. You are comparing Enlusion, who posts a new release once every two weeks or so, to the guys above who are doing it 3 times a day. No one is saying ban the promotion of new material altogether just get a grip on the spamming. It's only a handful of accounts who do this anyway, we can all see who they are. And the records they share are mostly awful. If anyone is really desperate to share gems they've discovered with everyone else then surely 7 records a week is more than enough.

dmgtz96 · Dec 1, 2020

Propeller said:
He also doesn't post links to individual tracks but an entire episode of FSOE, which you have to scroll through to find the track. Maybe this practice can be banned too? If anyone is really desperate to share something like this then they should cut from the set and then post.

Good move. It's frustrating when you see a "new track" to discover it only exists as part of a Soundcloud set or radio episode. Productions like that can wait until they are promoted by their label as a stand-alone Youtube video.

Propeller said:
It's probably not possible to demand that each post carries a story though, how would anyone police that, who has the time to do it?!

I wouldn't recommend it. Crafting a story for a classic alone that has a rich history behind it is difficult, never mind a new release that few people know about. This is more like a "big label" thing that you would expect from Black Hole, but not from a rookie label.

Archon · Dec 1, 2020

dmgtz96 said:
There's no shortage of amateur producers wanting their work to be released somewhere.
Looking at their Facebook profile, Trance All-Stars caters exactly to this demographic. Not only that, but the label experienced minor success with Simon O'shine's track Your Distant World, its most viewed video on Youtube. I imagine this and other Simon O'Shine tracks are what received support from the major DJs, not generic degga uplifter by a random producer (though, to be fair those productions also sound like degga uplifters).

I wonder if they're making any money at all. Their tracks get very little views on Youtube, so how much realistically are they making on other platforms?
IMO if it's for the money they are just spinning their wheels. They'd have better chance supporting hip hop/trap artists.

I love Your Distant World! Forgot it was even released there.

Archon · Dec 1, 2020

Propeller said:
Gagi - I don't understand some of the points you make. You are comparing Enlusion, who posts a new release once every two weeks or so, to the guys above who are doing it 3 times a day. No one is saying ban the promotion of new material altogether just get a grip on the spamming. It's only a handful of accounts who do this anyway, we can all see who they are. And the records they share are mostly awful. If anyone is really desperate to share gems they've discovered with everyone else then surely 7 records a week is more than enough.

What I wanted to say was, he's also promoting his and his label's tracks, and using the forum as a platform for promotion. Magdelayna as well. I'm not blaming them, or saying what they do is bad. I have nothing against that as they a) share good work, b) contribute by discussing stuff and c) post new threads less frequently. But how do you make that into a rule, that allows them to do that, and forbids some other users from trying to do the same.

Your post cleared it up a bit, yeah I get what you're saying. I don't like generic uplifters either. But posting 3 releases on Friday and 3 on Monday or spreading them across 6 days - does it make a difference when you look at the section on Sunday? It makes a difference on Mon/Fri only. You don't get rid of the spamming - not that much anyways - you just spread it. I'm talking about TAR right now as they seem like they post 3 every time there's a release day or promo day. The worst contributors of 3 threads per day, every day, well that's another thing. But do we have those? In my opinion, labels are misusing the forum as a free-ad platform, as you said. Some other people who share a lot of stuff might not be - believe it or not, people love being that person (even though I always suspected they were being paid).

Anyways, 1/day seems like a reasonable suggestion, but I don't think it's still going to do much - the spam might get reduced a bit, but it will still live on.

What we need, is something that would really encourage quality over quantity, and I'm afraid that it can't be a rule - it's down to members, individually. So it's either conversations with them (I'd love if they participated in this one), or Kata has to get his special toy out.

Magdelayna · Dec 1, 2020

dmgtz96 said:
There's no shortage of amateur producers wanting their work to be released somewhere.
Looking at their Facebook profile, Trance All-Stars caters exactly to this demographic. Not only that, but the label experienced minor success with Simon O'shine's track Your Distant World, its most viewed video on Youtube. I imagine this and other Simon O'Shine tracks are what received support from the major DJs, not generic degga uplifter by a random producer (though, to be fair those productions also sound like degga uplifters).

I wonder if they're making any money at all. Their tracks get very little views on Youtube, so how much realistically are they making on other platforms?
IMO if it's for the money they are just spinning their wheels. They'd have better chance supporting hip hop/trap artists.

They wont make much money...BUT if they churn out release after release,week after week like they are doing,its probably better than 1 release a month money wise...they will just pick up a few more pounds/dollars a month.

Pegasus Music · Dec 2, 2020

As a label that post here only 2 times per weeks we get your point, it can be seen as spam as we only promote our music.
We only wish that the section will get more attention, users visit the section but don't comment, it is rare to see a comment on a release.

Hensmon · Dec 2, 2020

Good thoughts and ideas here guys.

I think if the user also gets involved with the community then It's ok if they also decide to share their labels music frequently in the UR section, even if it is not to our taste. I think what makes Trance All Stars hard to swallow is that he has no interest really in engaging with the forum and the music unfortunately doesn't seem to be much interest to the majority here either. I mentioned before about tougher limits to users who generate too many 0 reply threads... I will enforce that on him now, maybe even max 3 per week.

As for @sashamlenik, I have no problem with what he/she is doing, in fact I personally think it's good overall. @Magnevi mentioned that this site is a discussion platform and not a database, but actually it is both. The UR sections is probably the webs biggest resource for following the most up to date Trance/Progressive scene releases and no surprise there is a lot of 'guest user' traffic here. It was actually the section which made me join TF all those years ago and I still find it v useful. Users like sash are sharing labels FSOE, Subculture, In Trance We Trust, Blackhole, Bluesoho + 3/4 others. It's good to have someone willing to cover these big labels, and there is plenty of great music shared + discussion too.

I agree there could be improvements though, but I don't see a huge problem overall. The SC links with timestamps in sets are something I personally avoid. Maybe stopping that might help. However some users dont seem to mind...also occasionally there are special tracks dropped within sets and its fun to ID and be at the forefront of the release, way before YT, Spotify, Beatport ETC...thats the essence of modern crate digging in a way. Plus if certain users upload sets I will check it, so is it just a taste thing?

sashamlenik · Dec 2, 2020

Propeller said:
Yes, exactly. Limiting to one post per day is the only thing that will make a difference as far as I can see. As things stand the TAR account is using the forum for free advertisements. On any other site they would have to pay for advertising and unless tougher rules are brought into place they will continue to spam purely because it makes business sense. This is the case for all spammers.

I suspect the Sashamlenik account is employed by one or more labels to promote releases too... just look at his posts - pre-order here, available to buy now.... He also doesn't post links to individual tracks but an entire episode of FSOE, which you have to scroll through to find the track. Maybe this practice can be banned too? If anyone is really desperate to share something like this then they should cut from the set and then post.
It's probably not possible to demand that each post carries a story though, how would anyone police that, who has the time to do it?!

Gagi - I don't understand some of the points you make. You are comparing Enlusion, who posts a new release once every two weeks or so, to the guys above who are doing it 3 times a day. No one is saying ban the promotion of new material altogether just get a grip on the spamming. It's only a handful of accounts who do this anyway, we can all see who they are. And the records they share are mostly awful. If anyone is really desperate to share gems they've discovered with everyone else then surely 7 records a week is more than enough.

You're wrong, I don't work with labels.

I just carefully follow the updates on the DJ pages and in the label-worx database. And I don't see anything terrible that I notify users that a pre-order has appeared, or a release date, or a cover, etc. It's not hard for me to post cutted tracks. Moreover, I cut all this tracks for posts in my vk group. But again, questions will arise, where did I get the preview from. Therefore, I consider it correct to use a link to the original source, and no way else. Sorry for bad English, I hope you understand me.

cheer_up · Dec 5, 2020

Some default thread sorting by comments + views + post date would move all the spam out of sight. Users could still sort by just post date and see whatever new has been posted recently, but the main focus would be on the most commented and viewed releases of the last x days.
A daily daemon could also be introduced to delete all threads with 0 comments and x (low) number of views after x days.

MDD · Dec 12, 2020

I'm glad this was raised and appreciate your views on this. I think however if a profile solely represents a label trying to plug it's releases each week it becomes too overpowering. It no longer becomes the opinion of a music /trance enthusiast, but a label. For example, if other labels started to do this, that's all that the 'upcoming releases' section will be. Do we really want that?

I don't know what the right answer is. I've followed this forum for years on and off and enjoy the views shared with others on music we listen to, not the labels who plug them. I think if a user profile is representing a label, they shouldn't be allowed to promote in the unreleased section but maybe some other section we don't yet have?

Either way, keep up the good work!
Mark

Propeller · Jan 24, 2021

Why not change the name of upcoming trance releases to upcoming trance, progressive and melodic techno? After all, the best trance tends to be labelled as either progressive, progressive house or melodic techno. What is called trance often tends to be just pop music with cheesy vocals, generic structure etc. It might increase the variety of stuff that gets posted.

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Spamming in Upcoming Releases?!

Propeller

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dmgtz96

Elite Member

Archon

Gagi

Archon

Gagi

Magdelayna

Elite Member

Pegasus Music

New Member

Hensmon

Admin

sashamlenik

Senior Member

cheer_up

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MDD

Elite Member

Propeller

Senior Member