Conservative or liberal (politics)

[LostLegend]

Lord Mandelson arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office

The ex-US ambassador had been under investigation over allegations he shared market-sensitive government information with Jeffrey Epstein while a government minister.

www.bbc.co.uk

Mandelson now arrested.

You’d hope this is the start of the floodgates opening. My cynical side is still skeptical that there’ll be much else. We live in hope.

Not so much for the US though. Doesn’t even look like there’ll be even one token arrest or firing.

 

[Jetflag]

speaking of token arrest: Prince whats his name is already back home.

 

[LostLegend]

speaking of token arrest: Prince whats his name is already back home.

Andrew. The no-longer-prince as he’s had his titles stripped.

They were never going to remand him in custody for the period of investigation.
So I believe he’s out on bail atm.
The police forensics were still at his “residence” collecting evidence over the weekend. But if his legal team are worth the money he’s likely paying them, they would have had him get rid of anything incriminating long ago.

That said, given how incredibly arrogant he was during the interview with Emily Matlis a few years ago, who knows if he even listens to them?

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

friend of mine is from NL but has lived all his life in aussie, he had an interesting way of looking at it. Most people think of australia in its inception as a colony of prisoners.

what they forget he said, is that its also a colony of prison guards/keepers.

Australia is an interesting country. Just spent the last month there as I have immediate family in Queensland. Had to use their healthcare while I was there (top notch). Love it there so much! The animals killing you is just part of the experience. Have a teaspoon of cement - harden the fuck up

Coming from the USA, it's incredible how intense government regulation is there for things like speed enforcement for instance. Or their (IMO failed) taxation policy on tobacco. For speeding, it's crazy how you can't really get away with it at all unless you are really rural. But it was also awesome to just set the cruise control and forget about it. No insane driving around me, was really peaceful. I'd take that gov't control over the daily GTA reality in CA I came back to.

As for the socialism aspects, take healthcare for instance. Healthcare outcomes in the USA are so poor compared to Australia, which is my fav country to compare to because it has a combo public/private structure (which IMO would be the best transition if we went to Medicare for all). We spend almost 2x per capita in the USA compare to Australia with poorer outcomes across the board. The USA insurance structure, and the vertically integrated nature of that business is so stacked against the patient. Deconstructing our current scammy system almost seems impossible but should be a prime objective of our Gov't in my opinion. Australia has budgetary challenges to work through as well, but it's a pretty good example of how things could be more equitable with better outcomes.

Being able to live in both countries, I have less and less reason to live here honestly. I'd prefer to be a kept/compliant prisoner with great benefits and a higher standard of living for all. They don't really argue about social polices there as much either (like abortion or separation of church and state), which makes their governing a little more focused on how to fix things that affect real people. Change can happen more rapidly there by consensus too. It's refreshing. I'd make less $$, but everyone there has more too. They have huge affordability problems to tackle of course, especially with housing, but so does the USA and there is no appetite or functioning gov't even here to tackle the hard issues. A little socialism seems to be the norm in all the best countries, no?

 

[Jetflag]

A little socialism seems to be the norm in all the best countries, no?

Well No, not really but Yes, sort of

I would:

1, not call that socialism, because it’s not. Social programs, which every country has, are not the same as/ comparable with marxist top-down state enforced “equality” (except ofcourse for the peoples party and the great leader)

2 if you háve to misnomer it as socialism, and really really want that, which you know, fair enough...I would at least urge to keep it as local (and fragmented) as possible, preferably on a municipal, district of if you must state scale. A good example of why that works (better) then the alternative is the Scottish NHS vs the English.

for the rest we both find ourselves wishing the greener lawn of the neighbour more @SaltAcidFatHeatAcid. Me and the misses are considering more and more emigrating due to the Dutch, frankly, tax theft of more then half our income, and endless “paper work betutteling” of normal people who just want to live their lives. There is a thing to be said about life being a bit more human and risky as opposed to living in a defacto sterile senior home for a country the rest of my days, speaking for me and the wife that is.

but then again i haven’t visited Australia or lived there for a decade or more to get a feel so hey ho, we might agree on aussie being a good middle ground

 

[LostLegend]

It appears that the Board of Peace are in fact Bored of Peace

 

[Jetflag]

Wouldn’t rule out Trump pulling another Maduro on khaleiny or what’s his name.

as in: get in, bomb/grab shit/ get out. Peace return with a more pliable regime.

then again ..I also absolutely wouldn’t put it past him if he drags this out a bit till after the midterm… a president during war time gets, historically, usually bit of a bonus in terms of votes.

 

[LostLegend]

Wouldn’t rule out Trump pulling another Maduro on khaleiny or what’s his name.

Looks like an Israeli missile got there first.

I hope there is some sort of plan to get someone less hardline in rather than just leaving a power vacuum that the Iranian military would fill. That would end up worse for the Iranian people.

I used to live next door to an Iranian guy, a software engineer, really intelligent and a nice guy. He used to tell me about how a lot of the younger generation of Iran are much more liberal minded (By Iranian standards) than the hardline gov'mnt there. Most know how to use VPN's/TOR and the like to get around the internet restrictions there and want a more open and socially modern Iran. The student protests there confirm what he told me.

While I'm not a fan of bombing yet another middle eastern country, I do hope that the Iranian people get a better, more moderate regime in place.

 

[Jungalism]

Another war on behalf of Israel. No different than Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria.Has nothing to do with bringing liberalism to Iranian people.

 

[LostLegend]

Has nothing to do with bringing liberalism to Iranian people.

That's not what I said at all.
I hope the outcome is that is does, but I doubt the intentions of this conflict have anything to do with the wellbeing of the Iranian people.

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

Remembering all the conversations on here before the last election… so much winning with this US admin eh? Less war and death eh? Ukraine’s all solved? Americans are healthier now right? Immigration issues are on track to be fixed sustainably?
Regardless of any collateral benefits ones might see with this admin, I would argue it wasn’t worth it, and the risks never ever justified letting these people near power. Same position I took before who knows how many people rolled the dice for the ‘funny’ septuagenarian. Three long years left with these folks and I have no idea how we get through it. Markets on Monday should be interesting.

 

[Progrez]

Remembering all the conversations on here before the last election… so much winning with this US admin eh? Less war and death eh? Ukraine’s all solved? Americans are healthier now right? Immigration issues are on track to be fixed sustainably?
Regardless of any collateral benefits ones might see with this admin, I would argue it wasn’t worth it, and the risks never ever justified letting these people near power. Same position I took before who knows how many people rolled the dice for the ‘funny’ septuagenarian. Three long years left with these folks and I have no idea how we get through it. Markets on Monday should be interesting.

Petrol prices are going to $5 per litre I guarantee in the US and here in Australia most likely it will go up to $3 per litre. The fact that Dubai, Kuwait, Iran, everyone in the middle except Turkey was attacked.

 

[Jetflag]

Regardless of any collateral benefits ones might see with this admin, I would argue it wasn’t worth it,

oK, but whats the point in posting all those topics (winning with the US admin, Less war and death, Ukraine, Health, immigration, economy etc.) if you're going to go " its not worth it anyway" prehoc then?

Like...most if not all of those are defacto succesfull, bar perhaps the economy and how its precieved by the average american..

like...what precisely could you plausibly concieve to be a " trump success" uberhaubt, according to you then? or is that not possible, full stop?

Again, plenty of wrong with the man, but on the topics you listed yeah, he has in the one year he's been sitting here for the 2e time.. been mostly succesfull especially compared to his predecessor.

 

[Jetflag]

I do hope that the Iranian people get a better, more moderate regime in place.

I hope so too, Collegue of mine is married to an Iranian and she's both over the moon and scared as hell for her family there.

The Iranians do have one thing going for them as opposed to say: the Taliban/ Irakese. on a possible future "liberal democracy front" .
They have large non-islamic-radicalized youth who have been protesting the regime since the 60's. There is bottom-up grass roots support for said reform.

which absolutely was not the case with Afghanistan or Irak, especially the Rural areas.

Matthew 7:6, if one is not ready or does not want to be " helped" do not persist in forcing said help onto them as it will only backfire.

 

[Hensmon]

Remembering all the conversations on here before the last election… so much winning with this US admin eh?

I have mixed feelings. For war it's of course disappointment, both with Ukraine and now with Iran. Trump was never a guarantee on that front though, it was simply a higher percentage chance of improvement compared to the Democrats. You might argue it was naive to think he'd be true to his word, but I had to hope. He at least has been trying to end the Ukraine war, even if unsuccessful. I'm still hopeful he can end it, whereas with Biden/Harris I was fearful of further escalation. It looks like he'll end up being exactly like the rest though.

For the health stuff its been decent. Chronic disease is by all measures the no1 issue effecting the country. The sickest nation on earth now is beginning to wake up and change course. RFK has completely changed the zeitgeist around health, well overdue, absolute blessing. For first time ever we have officials in gov talking about the root causes of health in a meaningful way.

Some wins include: artificial dyes phasing out and corporations removing other artificial ingredients from products (see Walmart). 700 mil to regenerative farming. Conflicts of interest removed from industry, loop holes caused in laws, and the food pyramid update. That last one is underrated, as those guidelines drive how food is served to hospitals, school, welfare programs, army and prisons. 100's of millions of meals, many going to the poorest and sickest, will now change from poison garbage to nutritiously dense and health. It's also an idealogical shift the public desperately needs.

 

[Jetflag]

Well have to see how this unfolds in Iran but on the war front I would say Trumps 1e year policy has been very successful.
Azerbaijan v Armenia, Serbia v Kosovo and India Pakistan have been diplomatically solved or at the very least helped without a single shot fired, Trumps diplomatic team is largely credited for the hostage/ cease fire deal between hamas and Isreal..

a single threat/ kick under the but has ensured Rutte is actively boosting greenlands defences and getting NATO allies in check In terms of contribution

Ukraine and Russia are talking directly, negotiating a permanent settlement and exchanging prisoners/ occasional ceasefires,

and the strikes he has preformed have been (as of yet, well have to see how Iran unfolds) extremely economical. Deltaforce/ stealth bombers in and out, minimal body count. Even now the US and Iran are negotiating with Oman as middle man.. this type of Hegemonic Stability Poking is in no way comparable to either Bush, Clinton or Obama and the war/ resources lost there.

 

[Arnoud]

"Trumps diplomatic team is largely credited for the hostage/ cease fire deal between Hamas and Israel." A very loose cease fire that is and they pretty much leveled the place, I would guess Hamas will try and recollect themselves and use guerrilla tactics in the near future.

I wonder what comes after Iran? Pakistan? Probably not, besides the strategic location i.c. China, they have nothing that would interest the USA and seem to pose no threat while it's population (largely) hate Americans far more than the general population of Iran. And they have A-Bombs of course, that would be a problem.

Is this just a general repetition for an encounter with China? (They also have A-bombs so a direct confrontation would probably be out of the question)

Far more important, the effect of the FIFA World Peace Prize. After winning this price the president has been busy...

 

[Jetflag]

"Trumps diplomatic team is largely credited for the hostage/ cease fire deal between Hamas and Israel." A very loose cease fire that is and they pretty much leveled the place, I would guess Hamas will try and recollect themselves and use guerrilla tactics in the near future.

yeah which heavily begs the question.. who or what could have done it better? Was there uberhaubt a better, realistic outcome/solution other then the succesfull transfer of the hostages possible given the disposition of both parties? Same with the Congo Rwanda situation.

Far more important, the effect the FIFA World Peace Prize. After winning this price the president has been busy...

Honestly...Aside from peace revolution figures like ghandy or mandela, any nobel peace price for any serious political Commander in Chief or in this case american president is a IMO nothing more then a scam, bar perhaps Carter. Obama dronestriked around 4000 people among which 324 civilians whilst happily accepting his 2009 nobel peace price for and I quote: "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"

 

[Arnoud]

yeah which heavily begs the question.. who or what could have done it better? Was there uberhaubt a better, realistic outcome/solution other then the succesfull transfer of the hostages possible given the disposition of both parties? Same with the Congo Rwanda situation.

Honestly, I do not know.

Honestly...Aside from peace revolution figures like ghandy or mandela, any nobel peace price for any serious political Commander in Chief or in this case american president is a IMO nothing more then a scam, bar perhaps Carter. Obama dronestriked around 4000 people among which 324 civilians whilst happily accepting his 2009 nobel peace price for and I quote: "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples"

That is true. In Obama's defence; he got his nobel prize after nine months in office and reacted with a statement that he felt not worthy of the prize in light of his predecessors. I really can not blame Obama for a committee that just hands out a prize because the new president of the USA isn't caucasian.

Pretty much the whole Western world (the media) was in awe because of his victory. That really frustrated me. You need to judge people on their merits, not trivial things like the color of their skin, sexuality etc. (Normally I would have said religion also, but that is playing a greater roll in today's society, so that is not trivial anymore)

 

[Jetflag]

I chuckled.