Conservative or liberal (politics)
- Thread starter dmgtz96
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I removed Trump's image after I learned America bombed a school thinking it was a terrorist camp.
facade1984
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I'll celebrate the day this orange sack of bitch tits is in the fucking ground. Fuck him and whoever supports him
Jetflag
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facade1984
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Serbia v Serbia. *
Although I do not see how this exact situation fits in with your claim, and what do you think is even going on in these parts. Can you clarify?
Jetflag
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Sure. Since 2020 Trump has exerted his political influence in getting both regions to normalize economic relations. by mediating a deal between Hoti and Vucic. I believe his wife is from that area, hence probably the attention it gets. Then he got booted out by biden, and upon return in 2025 he continued on that path signing a deal which includes provisions urging implementation of the 2023 ohrid agreement, which besides furthering defacto recognition and political cooperation, also further builds on the economic side of things. (free movement of people and goods, energy infrastructure etc.)
So while he did not "end a war" which is one of those typical trumpian claims..he has helped de-escalate tensions by deepening political entanglement, preventing another conflict (for now) which could flare up over the core issue of Kosovo's status. I would call that an international success on his behalf.
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It has been a (sometimes joint) effort of EU and USA. There's been a lot of deals made ever since 2013. Some are led by Brussels, some joint EU-USA, some by certain EU member states (Germany, France)... Some have been spearheaded by USA alone.
It all depends on what is regarded as a priority for the current administration(s). I don't think that's due to someone's wife (she's not from that area), it's pure geopolitics and interest. It always was (just like the nature of the so-called state). Now it's getting traction due to the war and Russian influence. And maybe he's directly being included if it includes a quick win for him.
Without being aware of any arm-twisting behind the deal, Trump's first double bilateral agreement was mostly based on economy (plus some benefits for Israel); I have yet to see any major effects of that agreement. In fact, where Serbian population in so-called Kosovo is concerned, it's been much much worse for them ever since.
Jetflag
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Oh I didn’t say it was a win for all Serbians or even “Kosovoians” per se.. just as the Maduro hit definitely wasn’t a win for those (still, by some miracle) supporting his socialist regime.. but it was a win (albeit a small one) geopolitically speaking for the US/EU and by extension Trump.
He, without much effort, secured a us/eu desired economic/ political deal with a couple of phone calls and backdoor diplomacy. Hence I mentioned it in my list of Trump successes first year second term.
I am well aware that more political and economic entanglement can be very much disadvantagious for the local populous.
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In my opinion, it's been anything but economic (or political) normalization ever since. So-called Kosovo first blocked anything made in Serbia from crossing the border, they blocked institutions helping the local Serbs increasingly (banks, telcom, postal office, now medical centers, education), forcing a lot to continue migrating away... Then there's religious hatred, robbing and defacing churches, cemeteries etc...to a minor Serb population.
It's not all on Trump or US/EU, but even if so, they are chasing quick wins on a problem they have helped create over the past 30 years. What they call a win is maybe a win for them and their goals, not for all. (Strike on Iran? I'm way less interested in crippling China's economy than I am in paying for gas and fuel, and maybe keeping a job due to widespread inflation.)
But even if I'm looking at this from a historical point of view, even if we just focus on that Washington Agreement, who won? Some US investment firms and banks, and Israel to a degree. Trump got the promo, foreign PMs/presidents got to sit in the big boy room, and fuck the rest.
All that said, I do recognize that I'm very much not an American, so that means that I'm more or less on the stick end of all his actions.
Jetflag
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I agree.
But the question was is it a win/ successs for Trump in terms of international diplomacy and by extend the US. I would say yes and you actually seem to agree with me on that if I read your post thoroughly.. As for it not (or only if it suits...) recognizing local Nativism, Ancestry, Cultures, Conflicts etc. over alleged benefits of "cooperation", economic prosperity and globalisation yeh. i'm right there with you...I think this is actually very much a common theme of the time we currently live in.... Politically/ Zeitgeist speaking...Almost everywhere I look I see in some way or another a grassroots bottom up "death" of what i'll dub "international liberalism" so to speak.
facade1984
Senior Member
you know what I find weird. when people ay things like "how on earth did hitler get into power, if I was around I'd never let that happen", fast forward to today and I'm just *gestures at everything*. you can still find hundreds if not thousands of people entertaining the ideas of this mad pedo. granted a lot of them are foreign bots but still, plenty of morons and edgelord contrarians knocking about. fuck impeachment these goons need to be behind bars tossing some big dude salad
They are purely doing it to control oil. I mean have a look at the 2 countries he has invaded. Venezuela and Iran both Oil rich countries.
Jetflag
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Same reason Putin settled for the Donbas region et co after his “special military operation” ground to a halt at Kiev. It, and Crimea, arguably holds one largest gas reserves in Europe. granting Russia the defacto monopoly on that commodity for the next decade orso.
the war in Iran actually benefits Putin in that way, as the uncertainty allows him to ramp up the price and further fund the war in Ukraine.
I hear this a lot, but does it stand up to scrutiny? The US is the worlds biggest producer of oil and the third biggest exporter, they have masses of it. The idea they've been motivated too start a war half way across the world because they need that resource seems weak.
And how exactly do they get oil from Iran? US corporations would have to enter the territory and build infrastructure. Can they do that while the Iranian gov and military still control the country? Even if yes, imagine the security implications. And how do they transport it once they get it? Even today the ships can't operate.
Even in the case of the Iraq and Afghanistan, where the US ran those countries for 10+ years, very little oil actually made it to the US.
And even in the case of Venuezela, which is closer, it still has challenges in processing (Venz oil notoriously hard to process), and would require so much additional effort to operate within a hostile and unpredictable region. You might build a factory one day and have it seized the next.
The idea the conflicts are simply resource grabs is massive oversimplification in my eyes.
Jetflag
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Plain old “grabs” yes.. I agree. But control of said resources in particular the straight/ route I think is definitely the main why factor.
albeit probably not the only one. Control of the nuclear “resources”. I reckon is a big factor
How does this conflict achieve that? Even if leadership was to switch to some ideal candidate of the US (not going to happen), then we would be exactly back to where we were before they started bombing i.e the shipping lanes operating normally.
Jetflag
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The shipping lanes have not operated normally, let alone optimally, for some time now. Not a month goes by or the company I work for and who operates among which in that area issues a warning or drawback from local personnel. Having a defacto terrorstate constantly building military up infrastructure for a potential strike, and churning out anti western propaganda ad nauseum is not good for (future) business.
and you don’t put on a condom unless you wanna fuck at some point.
having a weaker, more pliable Iran is not just interesting for the US, but its main allies and trading partners in the region too (Israel, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, UAE etc)
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