Conservative or liberal (politics)

[LostLegend]

Guys! Those politicians might be fools, but not entire morons.

I’m not 100% sure at the moment you know

 

[Skylander]

I’m not 100% sure at the moment you know

Well if they're still getting away with the crap they do while already being exposed, then those mother trunkers do know their business...

 

[facade1984]

I mean, no they really don't

 

[Jetflag]

They are definitely smart enough to stay out of the juristicial fireing line / sentencing (for now)

though one can ask oneself the question wether that’s due to competence or just sheer power/ position.

then again, they would ‘t bein said positions of power/wealth had they been utterly incompetent so..

 

[dmgtz96]

Guys! Those politicians might be fools, but not entire morons. They always weight pros and cons before making radical decisions like declaring wars etc. It means they have certain goals, usually several, AND they're ready to deal with consequences

Trump definitely doesn’t have that kind of forward-thinking, lol.
He’s going to get obliterated at the midterms if high gas prices continue

 

[Jetflag]

Trump definitely doesn’t have that kind of forward-thinking, lol.
He’s going to get obliterated at the midterms if high gas prices continue

Agreed, he seems to go by his gut most of the time. It'll be interresting to see what, or how bad for him, the powershift will be next midterm.

 

[dmgtz96]

Agreed, he seems to go by his gut most of the time. It'll be interresting to see what, or how bad for him, the powershift will be next midterm.

Republicans are expected to lose massively unless they purge voters from registration lists, close voting polls in liberal areas, and intimidate voters in liberal areas (ex. By setting up ICE near polling booths). They’ll pull out all the strategies to ensure they remain in power.
The truth is, a lot more people will be motivated to vote against Republicans for many, many reasons: the Epstein files, skyrocketing cost of living, high gas prices, the possibility of a draft (which no one wants for themselves or for their sons), corporate layoffs due to AI (whether true or as an excuse), data centers expansions, ICE intimidating the public, and so on….. it’s an endless list and tbh if you have a conscience, you’re either sitting out the midterms or straight up voting democrat

 

[Jetflag]

Republicans are expected to lose massively unless they purge voters from registration lists, close voting polls in liberal areas, and intimidate voters in liberal areas (ex. By setting up ICE near polling booths). They’ll pull out all the strategies to ensure they remain in power.
The truth is, a lot more people will be motivated to vote against Republicans for many, many reasons: the Epstein files, skyrocketing cost of living, high gas prices, the possibility of a draft (which no one wants for themselves or for their sons), corporate layoffs due to AI (whether true or as an excuse), data centers expansions, ICE intimidating the public, and so on….. it’s an endless list and tbh if you have a conscience, you’re either sitting out the midterms or straight up voting democrat

I don’t know how effective or real that first part is. It comes across as bipartisan mud slinging/ fear mongering if you ask me..Which the reps are no stranger too aswell mind you....

Ask, for instance, any hardcore republican during a dem presidency about democratic integrity and they will equally swear that the open border policy or “domination electronic voting booths” is a nefarious plot by the dems to secure an impenetrable voting block for the future in their favor, keeping the dems in the seat of power ad infinitum.. I think the 1e Biden election and 2e Trump is actually fair proof that your voting system, albeit like any system somewhat flawed, is working fairly decent.

I do agree with the overall sentiment especially amongst disenfranchised MAGA voters. A lot are not happy being led by Israel’s leash into a war nobody wanted, sporadic redacted Epstein releases, and not being able to drive to work. Trump in that regard seems to be making the same mistake Biden made economically speaking. “Muh good GDP” is useless to the average voter If he can’t pay the groceries let alone thrive.

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

Republicans are expected to lose massively unless they purge voters from registration lists, close voting polls in liberal areas, and intimidate voters in liberal areas (ex. By setting up ICE near polling booths). They’ll pull out all the strategies to ensure they remain in power.
The truth is, a lot more people will be motivated to vote against Republicans for many, many reasons: the Epstein files, skyrocketing cost of living, high gas prices, the possibility of a draft (which no one wants for themselves or for their sons), corporate layoffs due to AI (whether true or as an excuse), data centers expansions, ICE intimidating the public, and so on….. it’s an endless list and tbh if you have a conscience, you’re either sitting out the midterms or straight up voting democrat

Not to be a dick but didn’t you decide to support republicans last year because random idiots associated with democratic protest movements were vandalizing Teslas? How the turntables have turned…

 

[Jetflag]

Not to be a dick but didn’t you decide to support republicans last year because random idiots associated with democratic protest movements were vandalizing Teslas? How the turntables have turned…

Not to be a dick aswell, but here's a tidbit of unwanted Dutch advice: You, and by that i mean all Americans, Need to do something about your incessant political tribalism.

You are aware that one can be both against the Dems tenatively revolutionizing shocktroop red-shirts into burning your car, whilst also being against the Reps Bush-Era'ing the middle east again because muh good pal Nethanyahu. right?

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

Not to be a dick aswell, but here's a tidbit of unwanted Dutch advice: You, and by that i mean all Americans, Need to do something about your incessant political tribalism.

You are aware that one can be both against the Dems tenatively revolutionizing shocktroop red-shirts into burning your car, whilst also being against the Reps Bush-Era'ing the middle east again because muh good pal Nethanyahu. right?

Well you believe the consiporacy/organized agitator side of that story so, can’t help ya there. I do not.

it’s just funnny to see what will cause people to change their mind one way or another on a given day. There was just as much risk in supporting this admin last year as there is today. Most of what I feared has come true, in fact it’s been much worse that I imagined.

You presume too much tho mate. I have quite a few MAGA in my life, locally and with family. I have respect for those that think differently, and we have good discourse even though I disagree. But we also give eachother shit incessantly as it helps ease the tension. Much like giving someone shit for siding with the opposition over a fad to vandalize Teslas lol.

Unfortunately though you are right about the tribalism, and it ain’t gonna be solved when one family owns 90% of media outlets. Maybe Trump’s fuckups recently will break the ‘support at all costs’ mentality of his base. Unfortunately we in the US will just be arguing about what is a fact instead of what is good policy for the people. And if I’m being honest, there is clearly a more problematic side of the aisle here as to threatening the stability and health of the US. I can’t even get a balanced budget out of this fuckery.

 

[Jetflag]

Well you believe the consiporacy/organized agitator side of that story so, can’t help ya there. I do not.

You genuinely think people just “organically” started mass targeting cyber trucks with 0 political backing/push, 0 generated incentive, 0 funding and Waltz actively celebrating the result of that?

“it just happened”. Now did it?

Unfortunately though you are right about the tribalism, and it ain’t gonna be solved when one family owns 90% of media outlets

On that we most certainly agree.. though I do see a silver lining with social media taking more and more a relevancy front seat in information distribution, but that’s a separate topic.

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

“it just happened”. Now did it?

The precursor was Elon going full MAGA, his role in DOGE, and helping buy the election. There’s this thing called social media you know, which drives trends and groupthink… people were and still are very angry at him and see Tesla as a symbol of him. Angry people with no effective power tend to lash out in small but visible ways. They see a protest at a Tesla cafe, they join. And maybe 1-2 of that hundred who show up are angry enough to start vandalizing. And that is on the news, inspiring others to take their rage out on the wanksymbol that is the cyber truck.

I don’t support it, but it’s incredibly obvious that organic trends like this can happen without an organizer or agitator.

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

On that we most certainly agree...

Do we though? The consolidation of power in media here under our current admin is happening under a weaponized FCC and weak antitrust enforcement, alongside who knows how many backroom deals. Polarization is only going to get worse.

 

[Jetflag]

Do we though? The consolidation of power in media here under our current admin is happening under a weaponized FCC and weak antitrust enforcement, alongside who knows how many backroom deals. Polarization is only going to get worse.

M8.. the fact that I often in debates here take the opposite side of the political isle because ya’ll a bunch of absolute shitlibs and commies by no means makes me agree with everything orange man does

And A (potential) defacto media monopoly is one of those things..

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

e ya’ll a bunch of absolute shitlibs and commies

But let's not promote polarization.

Sigh,

 

[Jetflag]

But let's not promote polarization.

Sigh,

im allowed, im not an American (yet at least)

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

im allowed, im not an American (yet at least)

Please stay over there, until I leave at least .

It doesn't matter anyway. Our gov't is too corrupted by money and influence. Even if the dems get power, they won't have the votes to make the type of change needed to fix our core issues (tax policy/funding, healthcare, immigration, money in politics, lobbying/corporate influence, miltary priorites and spending). If the repubs stay in power, they seem determined to grind our reputation and gov't into the ground. Neither will balance the budget anyway.

I get your libertarian sensibility makes you allergic to bigger gov't/dem socialism or whatever you want to call it, but I still feel the topic of this thread is misnamed. For me, it's not conservative vs liberal, as I am really neither. In the USA right now anyway, it's more erosion of democracy and kleptocracy vs a weak ineffective band of corporatists who want to help people, but usually don't in practice. My morals prevent me from aligning with the conservative faction in our politics in modern times. We are truly broken over here.

 

[Jetflag]

but I still feel the topic of this thread is misnamed

I actually wholeheartedly agree with that and something I’ve objected to in the past (but also don’t want to make too much of a deal of)

What people call republican conservatism vs Democratic liberalism is actually both Liberalism. The first is the Lockian brand whereas the other is the Rousseauian brand of essentially the same core philosophy..

My “brand” of libertarianism is also very much non-objectivist though… I for instance do not see the use of a full free market if that doesn’t benefit or produce free people.. which I see as the main goal instead of the market composition.

the reason I favor companies more overall is precisely because they don’t have a monopoly on power, which the government by necessity must have unfortunatly..

I do think, despite what you describe as your countries political failings, that it is still a genuine good place for entrepreneurship and living how you choose, albeit in a more rough environment. NL in particular is almost the opposite of that, more and more everything is regulated and pandered to death to the point that my kids can’t even shoot some fireworks on New Year’s Eve. Where you can get arrested for a social media post, where half your income is just taken by the government chat that to do with as they please (or better yet Brussels, which were a defacto province off). And where everything frog-in-slow-heating-water cooks to the point of the whole country being a defacto sterile senior home…

Me and the misses are seriously considering immigrating (while we’re still allowed) to someplace less.. choking.. if only for the kids later. I’m still hesitant though as it does feel like abandoning my country if you know what I mean..

with

Please stay over there, until I leave at least

lol, Say hello to Dutch mr flanders muahaha

 

[Hensmon]

Me and the misses are seriously considering immigrating

To where?