Ontology of trance

[workid]

For a long time my smooth brain description for what made trance trance was that it had chords and melody. (I'm not musically trained at all btw.) I always had this feeling that the melody and or chords came first in trance, where something like techno it was mainly the rhythm. That was my admittedly simplistic mental framework, which I had given no real thought to other than raw unsophisticated intuition.

Trance is just one of those things that I knew it when I heard it.

Then I was watching a BTheLick livestream and he made an off-handed remark that trance was detune. The more detune, the more trance. It threw off my model, because I think he's on to something, even if it was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Now I'm not so sure trance is just melody and chords, maybe there's more to it, or maybe the detune aspect has better descriptive power?

So I'm curious what are your thoughts on what it means to be trance?

 

[Jetflag]

If you háve to assign detune, as single synth feature, to any genre as the defining trait (which imo is a very simplistic way of looking at it but hey ho)

it would imo not be Trance but Hardstyle.

Trance has way to many exceptions to that alleged rule (soft leads, plucks, keys, arps, pads etc) that have hardly if any detune on them. Especially the ranges other then uplifting or hard trance.

I think you are way more right and on the money when you presuppose that melody and dreamy atmosphere, along with what I would define as “deeper” basses, are what makes an edm track trance or not.

 

[Hoahoa]

Trance music is a feeling, beyond all else. You can take away the structural components like breakdowns, or the big synths and melodic components and still create trance, so this tells me its more about the emotion than the pieces. There has to be a musical journey, and something that hypnotizes or upliftings. You don't really get that with house and techno.

 

[Magdelayna]

Detune? Have i missed something...

 

[afterhourpower]

No one really knows how to define it. I have seen countless discussions on this subject the past 30 years and still nobody knows where it starts and ends.

 

[Breach]

No one really knows how to define it. I have seen countless discussions on this subject the past 30 years and still nobody knows where it starts and ends.

Which is interesting because most of the time we know it exactly when we hear it. Even at a 136 BPM I can hear 3 seconds and no its trance, just from the type of sound choices.

 

[afterhourpower]

Which is interesting because most of the time we know it exactly when we hear it. Even at a 136 BPM I can hear 3 seconds and no its trance, just from the type of sound choices.

Yes, that’s the funny thing. Same with techno with trance sounds, ambient trance, poptrance or whatever it’s called. You know it when you hear it.

 

[Jetflag]

Yes, that’s the funny thing. Same with techno with trance sounds, ambient trance, poptrance or whatever it’s called. You know it when you hear it.

Its not even just music or art in general for that matter, its everything from "agreeing the sky is the color blue" to what is the taste of orange juice..In philosophy this is known as the qualia problem, or hard problem of consciousness. Experience is fundamentally private, unmeasurable and intangible and can therefor never be explained through perception alone.

the definition of something, especially as complex as a musical genre, will always be lose around the edges somewhere by necessity.

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

Interesting comments.

I've always thought as trance as an aspect of a track rather than a defining feature. Like, a techno track with emphasis on progression can be trance to me. Or a groove-based house track that has a lot of trancey elements can be trance too. Or downtempo that focuses on the synth work (think @Magdelayna) - that's trance too right? I stopped caring about what is trance long ago b/c it doesn't help me make better sets. My tagging system resolves this, see below for an example. A prog trance track that has house leaning groovy elements. A prog house track that has trancey acid elements. A proper trance track that has dreamy acid elements. Nothing should be in one bin, it's so limiting.

Side note. Templated uplifting to me is actually less trancey to my ears than most of what gets argued about on here & elsewhere. Part of the trance experience for me is not really knowing what comes next and the joy of experience how the track ideas develop. Bad uplifting is so predictable the trance aspect doesn't materialize for me, even though it's clearly in the trance genre.

 

[Hensmon]

I can hear 3 seconds and no its trance, just from the type of sound choices.

More of a modern phenomena I feel. Producers have just be turning to and reusing the same sounds over and over again, without even realizing they are applying that constraint I think. They know they are making trance so they pull up the trance sounds, but it doesn't have to be like that really. Like I always wondered what would happen if a Trance artist download only dub techno sound packs and synths and tried to make a 138 trance track.

In the past (pre 1995) the first 10 seconds won't tell you if its house, trance, techno, acid or something else.

 

[workid]

You know it when you hear it.

This is the crazy thing about it for me, and the reason I think I spend so much time thinking about it.

Thanks for the replies folks, I hit send on this then got called into work offshore and before I left I had no replies I thought you must all think I'm mad.

Glad to see others indulge in this too.

 

[workid]

There has to be a musical journey, and something that hypnotizes or upliftings. You don't really get that with house and techno

So true man, I've always been drawn to trance for this reason. It speaks to me differently than other genres.

along with what I would define as “deeper” basses, are what makes an edm track trance or not.

huh I never thought of that but it makes sense. Maybe I need to chill out on over producing my basses

I've always thought as trance as an aspect of a track rather than a defining feature

This is very true, There's definitely other genres that can 'feel' more or less trancey too. I love a good schranz or techno track that's very trancey.

It almost suggests an objective trance, maybe impossible to actually touch but where music is on a spectrum of more or less like a perfect transcendental category of trance. Idk. It's weird that music is even a thing really when you stop to think about it, nevermind that there's certain types you can pick out through intuition.

 

[Jetflag]

what would happen if a Trance artist download only dub techno sound packs and synths and tried to make a 138 trance track.

you should see my avalon 62 production folder lol, it all but has one vengeance club sounds pack and the rest is all techno stuff