Producers and labels using gen. AI

[Jetflag]

Live music still exists and people still prefer it and it's the same for musical theatres too. EDM is slowly dying according to Armin in his latest interview.

Aanmelden bij Facebook

Meld je aan bij Facebook om te delen en contact te maken met je vrienden, familie en mensen die je kent.

www.facebook.com

View attachment 3173

That pic is gold lol

 

[Jetflag]

He says the right things and listens to the right music, but he does the exact opposite, only pushing the trance music industry toward the abyss

Bear in mind that he does have multiple employees and their respective families to support with his musical business venture.

in his heart he might very well bemoan the entire situation whilst being painfully pragmatic at the same time.

Musicians who’s livelihood depends on it have no choice but to adapt or get left behind

hobbyist like myself can afford to be true to heart, but don’t have the free time and daily practice/routine or resources to make “groundbreaking” quality stuff.

I’m glad if i can sit two hours a week in my studio atm

 

[Progrez]

He says the right things and listens to the right music, but he does the exact opposite, only pushing the trance music industry toward the abyss

Well, it looks like its rotting away down on the Marian's trench. I don't know if anyone here talks to Armin or knows who talks to him or not. I tried to get in touch with him through Nina but she quit/got fired from Armada 2 weeks after I tried to get in touch with her lol. They didn't even thank her for her service lol.

 

[Super-Frog Saves Tokyo]

...because the world needs more vocal trance.

 

[ray]

...because the world needs more vocal trance.

Does it also need water scarcity, RAM and GPU shortage, and a completely ruined Internet from all the AI slop floating around?

See, this is what everyone supporting this BS doesn't get. It's not about the result whether it sounds good, it's about the ethics behind how it got there, and the hazards that usage of this "cool" technology is going to leave on society as a whole, and on the environment.

The only thing stopping the world turning into Blade Runner / Cyberpunk 2077 / The Matrix etc. is people saying NO.

But who cares about morals when one is too busy jacking off to their AI girlfriends, right?

 

[Super-Frog Saves Tokyo]

Does it also need water scarcity, RAM and GPU shortage, and a completely ruined Internet from all the AI slop floating around?

See, this is what everyone supporting this BS doesn't get. It's not about the result whether it sounds good, it's about the ethics behind how it got there, and the hazards that usage of this "cool" technology is going to leave on society as a whole, and on the environment.

The only thing stopping the world turning into Blade Runner / Cyberpunk 2077 / The Matrix etc. is people saying NO.

But who cares about morals when one is too busy jacking off to their AI girlfriends, right?

In the 80s in UK schools, there was always a rival hard knock school, and occasionally, we'd all turn up at the other school for a 'fight' with their pupils.

You'd all get to the other school, there'd be some shouting and posturing, and then if you ever charged at the others shouting 'get them' you'd see a previously over-confident committed bunch of 'friends' standing still or retreating leaving you running headfirst into a fight without the back up promised.

Nothing's changed.

It's just that we'll all be assuring and posturing to the fact 'none of us will use AI, we'll fight it together' then immediately head to Sora and generate an image of one of our mates as a rhino or some such pointless shite...

'AI' has been around for ages. It's just a natural evolution of Google: a tailored and seemingly intelligent search engine. We already accept self-service checkouts, chat bots etc. etc. which are just a misuse of corporations to save cash.

As for the water/environmental issues - data centres have been on the rise for years. Before this current trend of AI. We're already fucking the planet over with this shit. Every time you take a photo, where do you think it's stored? Now multiple that by billions... we've already lost. I take it nobody uses Amazon? Thomann? Anderton's? Online grocery? Uber? Just Eats? Air BnB...

I think the only point everyone will agree on in this thread is the fact it ain't the tools, it's the people...

 

[LostLegend]

I think the only point everyone will agree on in this thread is the fact it ain't the tools, it's the people...

Merry Christmas, Dave

 

[Jetflag]

environment.

The only thing stopping the world turning into Blade Runner / Cyberpunk 2077 / The Matrix etc. is people saying NO

I am going to assume you wrote that on your smartphone and/or pc/mac/laptop and not from a fireplace heated log cabin in central Alaska.

if yes on any of those, Feel very much free pretending that If only you can gather enough Sancho’s, those darn Windmills will be slain, Don Quixote de La Mancha

 

[Nerio]

Music is mathematics, so it is clear that it can be easily "produced" using language models.
Regarding fears of energy shortages due to data centers. Look, if people are able to spend 229 billion on the World Cup in Qatar and only 22 billion (so far) for ITER energy project, where are our priorities? Not to mention that if the project were larger, it would most likely be able to produce enough energy, but the project would be too expensive, so they scaled it down and it will mostly serve as proof of concept.
Not to mention that after World War II, there were cities in Germany that were completely bombed to the ground, and some of them were able to rebuild and recover quite quickly. As has already been written here, it is a problem of people.
And especially the distribution of resources, because for some decisions, the following applies: "Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should (if there is a better alternative)."

 

[Jetflag]

Music is mathematics, so it is clear that it can be easily "produced" using language models.
Regarding fears of energy shortages due to data centers. Look, if people are able to spend 229 billion on the World Cup in Qatar and only 22 billion (so far) for ITER energy project, where are our priorities? Not to mention that if the project were larger, it would most likely be able to produce enough energy, but the project would be too expensive, so they scaled it down and it will mostly serve as proof of concept.
Not to mention that after World War II, there were cities in Germany that were completely bombed to the ground, and some of them were able to rebuild and recover quite quickly. As has already been written here, it is a problem of people.
And especially the distribution of resources, because for some decisions, the following applies: "Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should (if there is a better alternative)."

This reminds me of quote from someone whose name I can’t remember now. Goes something like this.

“If you where able to send Sir Isaac Newton or Einstein to the present day and show him a handheld device capable of 10 times the computations needed to send people to the moon, and he asked you: ‘Blimey good Sir! Might I ask what you use it for?’ And you would honestly answer him, you would have to tell him that 99% of its use is - lewd pornography, saying hi to people you know and cat-videos.

humans tend to invent stuff to do the same stupid stuff they always did more smartly or abundantly”

 

[tranceissomewhatalive]

If you had a clue how much decent vocalists charge for vocals, compared to the laughable cents of royalties coming to the music producers, you'd think of it different. And those that are cheap sound as shit as AI if not worse.

AI vocals tools could be very different - some advanced ones allow you to have just as much controls over minor details as any vst synthesizer. It's just the vocal timbre that is being generated using AI, you can input your lyrics, edit vocal melody, alternate pitch, types of singing etc.

Hate for all the wrong reasons here guys.

 

[Progrez]

Music is mathematics, so it is clear that it can be easily "produced" using language models.
Regarding fears of energy shortages due to data centers. Look, if people are able to spend 229 billion on the World Cup in Qatar and only 22 billion (so far) for ITER energy project, where are our priorities? Not to mention that if the project were larger, it would most likely be able to produce enough energy, but the project would be too expensive, so they scaled it down and it will mostly serve as proof of concept.
Not to mention that after World War II, there were cities in Germany that were completely bombed to the ground, and some of them were able to rebuild and recover quite quickly. As has already been written here, it is a problem of people.
And especially the distribution of resources, because for some decisions, the following applies: "Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should (if there is a better alternative)."

Music may have a portion of Mathematics involved but there is one thing that Mathematics cannot find or solve which is human emotions and there is no formula that you can find. Feelings is not something mathematics has been able to solve. Trance is largely based off feelings sadly the robotic, sterile and plastic stuff kinda destroys that and with AI as well.

 

[introspection]

If you had a clue how much decent vocalists charge for vocals, compared to the laughable cents of royalties coming to the music producers, you'd think of it different. And those that are cheap sound as shit as AI if not worse.

AI vocals tools could be very different - some advanced ones allow you to have just as much controls over minor details as any vst synthesizer. It's just the vocal timbre that is being generated using AI, you can input your lyrics, edit vocal melody, alternate pitch, types of singing etc.

Hate for all the wrong reasons here guys.

Exactly. Most of the popular vocalists today demand at least $1k per project and there's no way you are going to make that back from Beatport/Streams after the label/distributor etc takes their cuts. AI is taking over a lot of areas of music/art/film etc so the vocalists might have to start thinking about dropping their fee's to stay in the game or think out of the box.

 

[Nerio]

Music may have a portion of Mathematics involved but there is one thing that Mathematics cannot find or solve which is human emotions and there is no formula that you can find. Feelings is not something mathematics has been able to solve. Trance is largely based off feelings sadly the robotic, sterile and plastic stuff kinda destroys that and with AI as well.

I don't think so. Thanks to the musical theory of the "circle of fifths," (this is that formula) musicians can precisely create music that will have the emotion they want it to have.

 

[Jetflag]

The “emotions” or “soul” element in any music, art or even things like eating an apple is what is known as the Hard Problem of Consciousness. Qualia are epiphenomena and hence not decernable by logic (math) or the philosophy of the naturally observable (science) itself.

@Progrez is wrong however in that Ai is nothing bút mathematics and therefore incapable of eliciting emotions, it doesn’t work on “math” in the sense that binary code that follows from that can be used to scan humanity’s (emotional) art and combine/remix and morph those into original pieces which do elicit emotions, in the same way that humans create. The ai (and humans) just dont understand why they do, just that they do. Same with the cycle of fifths that @Nerio brought up.

it works (mostly) but we don’t know why it does and what exact qualia it generates for (each) human.

Ai or humans for that matter however don’t need to know why. They just need to employ it and there have already been instances of art competitions won by “crowd vote” (e.a. emotion over rule) by ai.

(or more accurately, and artist using ai)

An ai piece of “art” is in essence an unsteered semi random draw of averages. This is why ai cannot do éxactly what you ask of it and/or envision new concepts it has not “seen” before.

and.. most importantly

always needs human input to generate something

 

[tranceissomewhatalive]

Essentially, AI gives music producers a new set of tools that could be used either in creative ways or in lazy, generic ways, nothing really is different to what's already been on the market with template projects, preset packs, splice acapellas etc.

It's kind of similar discussion to VAR in football which isn't a living entity on its own but just a technology and the impression it gives depends on how qualified is the person using it.

 

[Jetflag]

Essentially, AI gives music producers a new set of tools that could be used either in creative ways or in lazy, generic ways, nothing really is different to what's already been on the market with template projects, preset packs, splice acapellas etc.

It's kind of similar discussion to VAR in football which isn't a living entity on its own but just a technology and the impression it gives depends on how qualified is the person using it.

Exactly.

which is why I think this topic started by @ray in calling out, when appropriate )!) producers who do so in a lazy fashion , (e.a. do nothing but promt whole tracks), can be actually quite useful

at the very least it might generate a níche market for human creators who either do everything themselves or use AI responsibly.

But we’re not going to stop this, nor fully boycot it, much like the sabots vs the tractors.

And the question remains, how long will we even be able to make the distinction

Do not go gentle into that good night. Etc.

 

[Progrez]

The “emotions” or “soul” element in any music, art or even things like eating an apple is what is known as the Hard Problem of Consciousness. Qualia are epiphenomena and hence not decernable by logic (math) or the philosophy of the naturally observable (science) itself.

@Progrez is wrong however in that Ai is nothing bút mathematics and therefore incapable of eliciting emotions, it doesn’t work on “math” in the sense that binary code that follows from that can be used to scan humanity’s (emotional) art and combine/remix and morph those into original pieces which do elicit emotions, in the same way that humans create. The ai (and humans) just dont understand why they do, just that they do. Same with the cycle of fifths that @Nerio brought up.

it works (mostly) but we don’t know why it does and what exact qualia it generates for (each) human.

Ai or humans for that matter however don’t need to know why. They just need to employ it and there have already been instances of art competitions won by “crowd vote” (e.a. emotion over rule) by ai.

(or more accurately, and artist using ai)

An ai piece of “art” is in essence an unsteered semi random draw of averages. This is why ai cannot do éxactly what you ask of it and/or envision new concepts it has not “seen” before.

and.. most importantly

always needs human input to generate something

I don't think so. Thanks to the musical theory of the "circle of fifths," (this is that formula) musicians can precisely create music that will have the emotion they want it to have.

But circle of fifths doesn't tell you what emotion to feel.

Mathematics and theory can describe structure and influence emotional response, but they cannot solve or fully define human emotion itself.

 

[tranceissomewhatalive]

Mathematics and theory can describe structure and influence emotional response, but they cannot solve or fully define human emotion itself.

Neither one human being can fully define what would they be for another one. And in this case, bigdata approach based on math and theory works more accurate than one specific person's way of feeling.

 

[Magdelayna]

Embrace the AI techniques...as long as the music is good? I mean,as Trance producers we all use samples that are already 'made' by someone else.....we dont go out in the woods,record banging on some wood to make a kickdrum??