The meaning of music and how it manifests through trance.

Bobby Summa

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Dear lord. I'm really not angry and I'm definitely not that sensitive
Cool. Thanks. With your exact response You've proved something about myself to myself thats very strange (to most)
But thats not a subject for this thread. More ESP based. I just needed to eliminate my stupid old distracting fears to see what was what. Sensed ( actually felt) your reaction as you had it. - i think thats also something i should shut up about LOL.
 
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facade1984

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No worries man, I can tell you're a good dude. I took know a thing about weird fears and insecurities but yeah maybe this ain't the place for that. Perfectly willing to concede that my viewpoint is born out of a little disillusionment and also the fact that I'm not even remotely spiritual
 
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Jetflag

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“—-Theorem 1 in summary: Music, any music, resonates with humans due to their innate pattern recognition features and tribal nature.

agree.

Theorem 2 in summary: (both @TheTranceHistorian’s aswell as @Bobby Summa ’s overall)
Trance as a genre is unique or especially well-suited for this:

Case in point: had it been then most of homosapien planet earth would judge it as their favourite genre by now, and since they don’t.. well—-“

……………—————————————————————
Me. -I reckon that you are being too generous to the human race as it currently stands (and mostly always has) here. At a very rough guess i would suspect that over 95% of people lack such awareness of whats actually going on within them, ie: all the energy, emotions, mental states, spiritual states that they aren't in a position to judge fairly.
Not that i think the human race should choose trance as their favourite genre, its just i think there are so many ingredients in it that at those times when people want to go digging inside then trance reflects this incredibly well.
This implies two things:

1 trance-connaisseurs are part of a small “spiritually enlightened niche group” which is something every single religious or artsy cults has claimed throughout time and they where all wrong.

2 Even if true, that would defacto nullify the statement that trance as a music genre is particularly well equipped as a “pattern resonator” for lack of a better word, for humanity, if it’s only suitable for a niche group then that sort of goes out the window doesn’t it ;)


edit:

3: Ask yourself. Does it really need to be? or is it ok for trance, classic trance, ambient etc. to be only suitable and enjoyable for a niche group without that group being somehow "greater" or more "aware" or "spritually attuned" or what have ya?
 
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This implies two things:

1 trance-connaisseurs are part of a small “spiritually enlightened niche group” which is something every single religious or artsy cults has claimed throughout time and they where all wrong.

2 Even if true, that would defacto nullify the statement that trance as a music genre is particularly well equipped as a “pattern resonator” for lack of a better word, for humanity, if it’s only suitable for a niche group then that sort of goes out the window doesn’t it ;)

I know this wasn't an answer to me, but I have to chime in:

There is still a strong stigma associated with electronic music, and particularly with electronic music that is faster-paced and has more danceable parts (let's call this EDM for simplicity). In the eyes of the average Joe, electronic music can never surpass, nor even reach the artistic levels of classical orchestral music, simply because, "duh, it's electronic, and, uh, all electronic music is techno". So there's that. Electronic music is still a relatively new way of making music that has traditionally been composed using physical instruments for thousands of years. BTW, the same is true for video games. As a relatively new form of art, it still has to fight with its sceptics, even though many games nowadays hold more artistic value than many contemporary films or music.

Second, music is the most subjective art form, mainly for the reasons I explained in post #9. You can't expect everyone to fall in love with classic trance just because (as I tried to explain previously) I believe it's one of the purest representations of what music as an art form can be. You don't need to go further than to look at orchestral classical music to understand this. Music from Beethoven, Mozart, and such are pretty much ingrained in or culture and every knows them, and these pieces of music have hundreds of years of history. Moreover, many intellectuals and music connoisseurs would probably say that these represent the highest form of art in the world of music. Yet, not everyone likes them. So these two things we are talking about are not mutually exclusive to each other.

Look, most people don't want to experience transcendence, an altered state of awareness, euphoria, etc. while listening to music. Some people just want to get drunk and have a party while listening to one of the newest pop tunes they'll forget about in two weeks. Some just use music as relaxation/focus-enhancing tool (healing music, chill, downtempo, even ambient). Some people (particularly from lower hierarchical/social circles) listen to rap music because they feel like their voices get represented and properly articulated by someone who they can look up to. The list goes on and on.

And again, just to reiterate one of the points from a previous comment of mine:

"When I say that trance is one of the strongest demonstrations of what music can be, I'm not necessarily saying that it's the best or most enjoyable type of music you can listen to, nor that is a genre where you can find the most high-quality tunes relative to all the tracks produced in said genre (as these things are either subjective or based on data). I'm merely saying that trance (and I'm strictly speaking about classic trance here), as well as some other forms of instrumental music (e.g. ambient) perfectly and purely encapsulate the concept and philosophy of music as an art form. This is because instrumental music is not burdened by things such as lyrics or vocals, thus, it can breathe, expand, and evolve freely and can invite the listeners to a deeper and more intimate, abstract experience. And, on top of this, trance with its hypnotic qualities and euphoria-inducing sounds is able to further amplify the transcendent sensory experiences associated with listening to music."
 

Jetflag

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I know this wasn't an answer to me, but I have to chime in:
oh yeah feel free dude, its a public post and public discussion. happy to spar a bit as its an interresting topic 🙂
There is still a strong stigma associated with electronic music, and particularly with electronic music that is faster-paced and has more danceable parts (let's call this EDM for simplicity). In the eyes of the average Joe, electronic music can never surpass, nor even reach the artistic levels of classical orchestral music, simply because, "duh, it's electronic, and, uh, all electronic music is techno". So there's that. Electronic music is still a relatively new way of making music that has traditionally been composed using physical instruments for thousands of years. BTW, the same is true for video games. As a relatively new form of art, it still has to fight with its sceptics, even though many games nowadays hold more artistic value than many contemporary films or music.
yes but it has already made an impact on several generations and with the advent of the internet i don't think that "stigma" is an objectivly very valid counter reason as to why the general public doesn't "get" classic trance.

Second, music is the most subjective art form, mainly for the reasons I explained in post #9. You can't expect everyone to fall in love with classic trance just because (as I tried to explain previously) I believe it's one of the purest representations of what music as an art form can be. You don't need to go further than to look at orchestral classical music to understand this. Music from Beethoven, Mozart, and such are pretty much ingrained in or culture and every knows them, and these pieces of music have hundreds of years of history. Moreover, many intellectuals and music connoisseurs would probably say that these represent the highest form of art in the world of music. Yet, not everyone likes them. So these two things we are talking about are not mutually exclusive to each other.
yeah I agree. but this also highlights the problem with the rest of your hypothesis down in the line(s) down below. Basically you defeat your own central claim with it.

I'm merely saying that trance (and I'm strictly speaking about classic trance here), as well as some other forms of instrumental music (e.g. ambient) perfectly and purely encapsulate the concept and philosophy of music as an art form.
What is the concept and philosophy of music (all music!) as an art form @TheTranceHistorian? Because I can prehoc guarantee you, if its your previous argument involving us being pattern recognizing creatures and the "metaphorical concept of the ‘third eye’, a symbol of intuition and expanded awareness. When ‘opened,’ it allows us to perceive energies, truths, and hidden dimensions beyond the material world."

I can provide you an equally valid synopsis only then putting christian rock, gregorian hymns or even pop music on the same pedestal.
This is because instrumental music is not burdened by things such as lyrics or vocals, thus, it can breathe, expand, and evolve freely and can invite the listeners to a deeper and more intimate, abstract experience.
no,

why?

because lyrics, vocals, raps etc. are also patterns, (specifically attuned human ones by the way) which has listeners and admirers in far greater number then classic trance connaiseurs who are just like them, as you earlier mentioned, specifically subjectively attuned to those.

Ask, per my earlier mentioned example, say: Christian rock concert goers if they ever experienced Exhaultation, and intimate, abstract experiences due to the music played during one of their events and I can hand you on a platter that they most certainly probably have.

And, on top of this, trance with its hypnotic qualities and euphoria-inducing sounds is able to further amplify the transcendent sensory experiences associated with listening to music."
...And on top of this, Christian Rocks hymns with their Divine Guitar Chords and Angel-connecting Lyrics is able to further amplify the transcendent sensory experience associated with listening to music. 🤷‍♀️

^
Its a deepidy. @TheTranceHistorian. You (or I for that matter) are saying nothing of substance or otherwise relatable to a reader outside of our niche group.


I think you're on the right path with your to be book in starting with what binds all music in relation to the human experience and the associated literature.

I genuinly do.

Where I think you quickly losing it currently is in skipping steps of more detailed objective markers such as, degree of complexity in patterns, amount and time of repeatibility, counterpoints etc. and other, verifiable/measurable qualities and quanitities as opposed to other musical forms in the same matrix.. and how humans react to those (preferably in an imperically measured fashion)

instead, you're moving way to quickly imho to vague epistimological and highly subjective markers.. which is something you can touch in your book for sure like a final epilogue or opinionated conclusion..don't get me wrong..

but right now it seems those are already the pre-concluced truths and you're ad hoc trying to validate them objectivly by providing general trademarks for music in general.

my 2 cents/feedback.
 
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Bobby Summa

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This implies two things:

1 trance-connaisseurs are part of a small “spiritually enlightened niche group” which is something every single religious or artsy cults has claimed throughout time and they where all wrong.

2 Even if true, that would defacto nullify the statement that trance as a music genre is particularly well equipped as a “pattern resonator” for lack of a better word, for humanity, if it’s only suitable for a niche group then that sort of goes out the window doesn’t it ;)


edit:

3: Ask yourself. Does it really need to be? or is it ok for trance, classic trance, ambient etc. to be only suitable and enjoyable for a niche group without that group being somehow "greater" or more "aware" or "spritually attuned" or what have ya?
i must admit im possibly making assumptions about any fan stimulated by the best trance music. I should learn just because it does for me that it doesnt for everyone. Humans often share characteristics but are never identical, so good point mate. ( i could explain that better but you get the gist)
Im not into elitism so mostly if it involves the concept of looking up to people, it should be avoided. Especially if those people believe they are somehow better or more significant. Thus somewhat creating a vibe of non inclusivity.
——-

Oh yeah sure. At the end of the day we are all subjective individuals, drawn to different things because we are sometimes stimulated differently through which ever medium we are processing. My point wasnt such that (trance is the best for everyone but that looking through history of tribes, then to the euphoric intoxication of modern trance music (from very late 80’s to now) that it (i feel) best reflect the drumming, repetition, chanting (pads chants fx etc) and melodies mirroring some modern hypnotic rythmic / arpegiated trance music. Filters n sweeps bringing you deeper or higher into alternative states. But. As you highlight, not everyone is drawn to Trance music and im sure simikar responses coukd be achieved from some ambient, ( it will for many whom it also does with trance). Perhaps a different type of deeper/higher state.
I guess it all comes down to if that letting go floats your boat. I guess many styles of music are hypnotic enough to do this. And not everyone is comfortable expliring this letting go .
 
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Bobby Summa

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And here I was thinking you’re a raging Tory fan :p

;)
Politically: Monster Raving Loony Party. Il start the party again and be Brighton’s candidate! Il lead the country into being Spiritual loonies of Trance and inner states! On a diet of Lemon & Ginger tea!


Spirituality: Seventh day Advent Hopper! - on the Sundays when im in power-everybody will hop ( on a leg of their choice, i am kind afterall) to trance music only. The Law: Hop to Trance music till your legs collapse. Its very very cool! 🤣.
- got the idea from the brilliant 90s Space comedy ‘Red Dwarf’
 
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oh yeah feel free dude, its a public post and public discussion. happy to spar a bit as its an interresting topic 🙂

yes but it has already made an impact on several generations and with the advent of the internet i don't think that "stigma" is an objectivly very valid counter reason as to why the general public doesn't "get" classic trance.

It's perhaps not the reason, but it is certainly one of the many reasons, along with how different people perceive sounds, in what culture they grow up, what their quality standards are, how's their taste, do they prefer instrumental or vocal records, etc.

I can provide you an equally valid synopsis only then putting christian rock, gregorian hymns or even pop music on the same pedestal.

And I can give you the benefit of the doubt and fully believe you when you say this. I never said that trance is the only genre capable of evoking such euphoric, and almost religious feelings (along with a bunch of other things), all I said is that it is capable of it (I always try to be as precise with my words as possible). Hell, the whole genre and the whole identity (and even the name of it!) is built around this concept. By denying this, you would not just question the legitimacy of the genre, but perhaps even the existence of it.

because lyrics, vocals, raps etc. are also patterns, (specifically attuned human ones by the way)

If what you mean by this is that lyrics and vocals have the versatility of melodies and sounds, then I have I disagree in a normal sense and I can only agree with you when looking at your opinion on an abstract sublevel.

Lyrics and vocals effectively ground songs in our perceived reality because they formulate words, which act as our primary ways of communication. Words are much more specific and tangible than sounds and melodies, which instantly means there's way less room for musical ambiguity, journey, and personal interpretation, even if you try to write lyrics that are more on the suggestive and poetic side. It also doesn't help that the overwhelming majority of music featuring vocals/lyrics is about love and mating rituals, with some composers of both past and present stating something along the lines of this: love is the only thing worth writing about.

However, while I'm looking at your statement in a more abstract sense, I find meaning and truth in it. When not judging vocals and lyrics based on their content (meaning, what thoughts and ideas the words formulate), but based on how they are presented (how they are singed, etc), I think they can serve similar purposes as melodies and sounds in a tune. Because at that point, they are no longer about what the words say, but about how they complement the musical journey and experience as a whole. This, however, also means that they stop acting as direct, straightforward ways of communicating ideas (which basically defeats the point of lyrics), and become another instrument among many that form the complete musical palette.

I think most modern musicians nowadays (even if I don't know all 900-1200 types of genres/subgenres) focus way too much on the lyrics and trying to communicate their ideas through words (this way effectively handicapping themselves) while forgetting about the abstract layer, the melodic components of music that provide way more possibilities, freedom, and ways for self-expression. They treat music more of an extension of poetry (so words arranged in a rhyming form, with some melodies layered on top), and less of something as its own.
 

Julian Del Agranda

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It's always nice to believe that "your taste" is better than other people's taste. I don't think it makes much sense though, to believe our holy trance genre is the "actual best music".
 
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It's always nice to believe that "your taste" is better than other people's taste. I don't think it makes much sense though, to believe our holy trance genre is the "actual best music".

Perhaps it's always nice to believe, but I never made such an implication anywhere in my post or my comments. I simply reasoned why I think trance exemplifies and amplifies the intrinsic qualities of music as an art form, I argued what the genre's primary strengths and identifying pillars are, and what legitimizes trance as its own distinct genre. In fact, I stated that:

  1. Instrumental music in general (which just so happens to include most trance tunes) offers a unique canvas for artistic expression, and such productions are generally able to offer a deeper and more meaningful musical experience than their lyrics/vocal-filled counterparts.
  2. I explained why I believe trance is able to amplify and emphasize the strengths of music as an art form (such strengths that go back thousands of years to our tribal roots), and I argued that it's a very rare thing in the world of music, so it should be recognized for that. But I never stated that trance is the only one capable of it.
  3. I also explained that while trance effectively highlights the strengths of music in my opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the best or most enjoyable type of music you can listen to, nor that is a genre where you can find the most high-quality tunes relative to all the tracks produced in said genre (as these things are either subjective or based on data).

I start to have a feeling that many people here on this forum are actually ashamed that they listen to trance and they feel the inner need to bash it to the ground, or, at the very least, constantly question its supposed quality just to seem more intellectual in this small circle of ours. Obviously, when I'm talking about the strengths of trance, I'm not just referring to classic trance music (since modern trance has nothing to do with the artistic philosophy of the genre), but I'm only talking about the top 1% since those are the tunes that can best represent of what any given genre is capable of (when its strengths are properly utilized).
 

Jetflag

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By denying this, you would not just question the legitimacy of the genre, but perhaps even the existence of it.
oh I never denied that its possible for trance music to do so, what i'm denying is that trance or instrumental music in general is somehow unique as a canvas for musical expression because it bypasses so called vocal/lyrical constraints, and is therefor somehow more meaningfull and "deeper".

I deny those are defacto constraints in the first place. 🤷‍♀️ you've labeled them as such sure, but in terms of "music as an art form" they are just more ( equal) elements as opposed to sounds or rhythmic, patterns tone-ladders or chords etc...You'll have to make a stronger case for those being a hindrance rather then a suplement or addition for your book then your current synopsis contains...

Hell, I would even argue from an tribal/ evolutionary standpoint that rhythm and chants (e.a. vocals and lyrics) probably preceed melodies, soundscapes and specifically those made by synthesizers...



And again, just to emphasize, you're talking to a fellow trance fan or "believer" if you will here ;), we can share in our subjective experience of it.

but unless the target audience for this book is exclusively trance-lovers or instrumental music lovers of the genres you've specified... (and one of them, namely me, can already quite easily poke conceptual holes in it by a lack of strong reasoning, accompanying source material for the more specific claims your making, and argumentation).

I don’t think you’re ever going to get a Pulitzer, or a publisher for that matter, in its current conceptual form....nor is that going to be a very interesting or thought provoking read for someone outside of said niche group.

you'll have to make a stronger, better underbuild case for the more specific claims you make.

Again, this is not me attacking you or the book for that matter, this is me being an anvil by which you can forge it into something more convincing and interesting other then just: "this is my opinion on specific genres based on more generic claims about music in general"

Lyrics and vocals effectively ground songs in our perceived reality because they formulate words, which act as our primary ways of communication. Words are much more specific and tangible than sounds and melodies, which instantly means there's way less room for musical ambiguity, journey, and personal interpretation

A word, or chant, much like a sample, is a single distinct (and in case of words specifically meaningful!) element of music, speech or writing. when properly sequenced, it can specifically envoke ambiguity, personal interpretation, phantasmagoric scapes, and journeys in the minds eye, As any lover of (abstract) poetry, or even fiction will tell you.

not only that, but in case of classic trance specifically, you'd have to rule out any track, or treat it as sub-par to the rest, that contains vocal elements such as indian chanting, gregorian chants, soft spoken samples, or wispers etc.

not sure you want to do that do you?
 
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oh I never denied that its possible for trance music to do so, what i'm denying is that trance or instrumental music in general is somehow unique as a canvas for musical expression because it bypasses so called vocal/lyrical constraints, and is therefor somehow more meaningfull and "deeper".

I deny those are defacto constraints in the first place. 🤷‍♀️ you've labeled them as such sure, but in terms of "music as an art form" they are just more ( equal) elements as opposed to sounds or rhythmic, patterns tone-ladders or chords etc...You'll have to make a stronger case for those being a hindrance rather then a suplement or addition for your book then your current synopsis contains...

I based my hypothesis on my current understanding of music as an art form, on my knowledge of the trance genre, and on certain studies related to music, intelligence, and patterns (some of which I also linked in the post), which then I used to try to find logical connections between them, this way making further deductions.

Hell, I would even argue from an tribal/ evolutionary standpoint that rhythm and chants (e.a. vocals and lyrics) probably preceed melodies, soundscapes and specifically those made by synthesizers...

According to a study conducted and published in 2019 in Evolutionary Behavioral Sciences – which "combined the approaches of evolutionary and social psychology to investigate the relationship between intelligence, music preferences, and uses of music" – more intelligent individuals are more likely to enjoy instrumental music. This ranges from genres such as ambient and chill-out electronica to big band jazz, film soundtracks, and classical music like Liszt and Bach. And as you probably know, trance is heavily rooted in genres such as ambient and even classical music.

You can make an educated guess why is that. Well, less intelligent people are less likely to look behind the curtain, so to speak. They are less likely to try to find additional meaning and depth in pieces of art. For example, average movie-goers will only really look at the words spoken by the characters (and, sure, take a look at the explosions), and their experience will be quite surface-level. On the other hand, someone with the proper appreciation for the art form will look for subtleties, including how the camera work and the colors portray the mental state of the characters, the state of the world, or just how the movies use different themes to portray bigger messages and moral lessons. Similarly, in music, people tend to predominantly focus on the vocals and perhaps on the general vibe (?) of the tune, because trying to understand/interpret something like melodies and sounds requires visualization, a different form of thinking, and abstraction, and that's way harder to do.

There are also other studies connected to this topic, including one that is less data-based and more deduction-based, done by Satoshi Kanazawa in 2011. This research primarily focuses on classical music to make a grander point, but it also comes to the same conclusion: "more intelligent individuals are more likely to prefer purely instrumental music than less intelligent individuals...". However, it also adds that "general intelligence has no effect on the preference for vocal music".

I don’t think you’re ever going to get a Pulitzer, or a publisher for that matter, in its current conceptual form....nor is that going to be a very interesting or thought provoking read for someone outside of said niche group.

I'm not interested at all in success, money, or fame. I leave that for narcissists. This project is a cultural mission of mine and I want to capture the essence and history of the genre in a physical form. I have no plan to make money from this. As for the publisher part: I already have this mostly sorted out.

you'll have to make a stronger, better underbuild case for the more specific claims you make.

Again, this is not me attacking you or the book for that matter, this is me being an anvil by which you can forge it into something more convincing and interesting other then just: "this is my opinion on specific genres based on more generic claims about music in general"

I appreciate constructive criticism, and this is partially the reason why I shared this draft in the first place. I would like to learn more and see how can I improve (which then could be reflected in my work), I want to get different perspectives on different topics, etc. However, I believe I've made a significantly stronger case for my thesis than you so far, with more reasonings and educated deductions, not to mention the scientific studies and articles I used to build up my hypothesis.

A word, or chant, much like a sample, is a single distinct (and in case of words specifically meaningful!) element of music, speech or writing. when properly sequenced, it can specifically envoke ambiguity, personal interpretation, phantasmagoric scapes, and journeys in the minds eye, As any lover of (abstract) poetry, or even fiction will tell you.

not only that, but in case of classic trance specifically, you'd have to rule out any track, or treat it as sub-par to the rest, that contains vocal elements such as indian chanting, gregorian chants, soft spoken samples, or wispers etc.

not sure you want to do that do you?

I feel that this discussion became slightly redundant and it feels like we are going in circles. Previously, I tried to explain that "lyrics and vocals effectively ground songs in our perceived reality because they formulate words, which act as our primary ways of communication" and they can only serve similar purposes as melodies and sounds if they act the way they also do. Meaning they no longer take the forefront and get an elevated status (like in most music). Instead, they transcend their linguistic limits by stopping "acting as direct, straightforward ways of communicating ideas [...] and become another instrument among many that form the complete musical palette".

This is essentially the core philosophy that is present in many classical music, in opera, or in trance, in fact. What really matters is not the words being spoken or sung, and not their direct meaning, but how those lyrics blend into the musical environment and what feelings they evoke, or what ideas they suggest by effectively acting as one of the many instruments (and this way also transcending their linguistic barriers).

So in essence, tracks featuring vocals can still have the same amount of depth, ambiguity, and potential for visualization and interpretation as their purely instrumental counterparts, and from a more liberal standpoint, can also be considered instrumental music. But only if such tunes use vocals as something supplementary that complements the whole picture, instead of something that tries to take the focus away from the rest of the music. And keep in mind that most contemporary (and even old) music is being written and produced in such a way, that the vocals/lyrics take center stage, and everything else is basically an afterthought, or, at best, supplementary. So it's the other way around.

The additional takeaway here is that the more a piece of music relies on vocals/lyrics to be able to tell and convey something, the less it starts to resemble music, and the more it starts to show similarities with other forms of artistic mediums, including novels or poetry. This ultimately proves my point that music that predominantly uses vocals to tell stories and evoke feelings is a lesser demonstration of what music as an artistic medium is capable of than instrumental music (or music that uses lyrics/vocals as an additional supportive layer). In the world of movies, there's a general rule (basically film school 101): show, don't tell. In the world of music, this would be best described like this: let us hear, don't tell. And, again, don't mix this up with the concept of quality. It's easily possible that X music that is primarily vocal-driven is of a much-higher quality than something that is purely instrumental. The point is that instrumental music is way more likely to take advantage of most of the strengths that music as an artistic medium provides.
 
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Magdelayna

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Theres beautiful and great examples of music in almost every genre - although theres some i dont 'get' like the screaming slipknot stuff or the really fast hardstyle/happy hardcore....i cant enjoy anything from those genres.
 

Jetflag

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I based my hypothesis on my current understanding of music as an art form, on my knowledge of the trance genre, and on certain studies related to music, intelligence, and patterns (some of which I also linked in the post), which then I used to try to find logical connections between them, this way making further deductions.
yeah cool, but I still have to see/ You'll have to make a stronger case for those being a hindrance rather then a suplement or addition for your book then your current synopsis contains... 🤷‍♀️

According to a study conducted and published in 2019 in Evolutionary Behavioral Sciences – which "combined the approaches of evolutionary and social psychology to investigate the relationship between intelligence, music preferences, and uses of music" – more intelligent individuals are more likely to enjoy instrumental music.
so, when arguing from an tribal/ evolutionary standpoint: rhythm and chants (e.a. vocals and lyrics) do not hierachically preceed melodies, soundscapes and specifically those made by synthesizers...

Because intelligent people like instrumental music more ?

ok? 😅


I'm not interested at all in success, money, or fame. I leave that for narcissists. This project is a cultural mission of mine and I want to capture the essence and history of the genre in a physical form. I have no plan to make money from this. As for the publisher part: I already have this mostly sorted out.
k, but my critique still stands.. up to you what you do with it ofcourse 🤷‍♀️

I feel that this discussion became slightly redundant and it feels like we are going in circles. Previously, I tried to explain that "lyrics and vocals effectively ground songs in our perceived reality because they formulate words, which act as our primary ways of communication" ...............
k, but then the issue isn't vocals or lyrics being absent or present..but the specific way in which they are utilized.
 

Hensmon

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Pattern solving is a big component to why music appeals to us and is enjoyable, but something tells me this isn't the only reason why music is as powerful as it is, and that there is definitely more to it. I solve patterns all the time in games but no Sudoku is going to impact me the way music does. Music changes people's lives. I think there is something more fundamental going on, but will unpack in another post

Re: Trance is more special than others? Yes and No... there is no doubt in my mind elevated musical experiences can happen in other forms of music outside and equal to trance, there must be a large subjective influence when it comes to that. BUT I do think not all genres are equal in terms of the depth, degree and type of experience on offer

To use the movie anology - When looking at top 100 movies of all time there are certain genres that completely dominate and others that barely appear. The reason for that is because the top movies have a full breadth of emotional offering. Fear, Happiness, Tension, Poise, Action, Injustice, Elation. Shawshank redemption has such a range of emotional content and journey that its a far more meaningful move than the best comedy could ever hopes (or aims) to achieve.

Trance music can have tick many boxes in the emotional spectrum, very good at moving from happy, sad, bittersweet, melancholic, energized, relaxed etc. There is a reason we call it a 'journey'. It contrasts and combines a lot of emotional depth naturally, where's a great DnB tune gives me a completely different emotional experience. So you could argue that Trance by its nature allows for a more complex emotional experience, but again, Its not limited to that genre. There is complex emotional works all over the place. Lyrics is no boundary to that either.
 

Hensmon

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Jun 27, 2020
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But others will call trance boom boom music without any real instruments. And therefor conclude it has zero emotion.

Probably a fair descriptor for many tracks in the genre tbh. Just have to be susceptible and have the musical experience to be open to the deeper stuff, is how I see it.
 
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Julian Del Agranda

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Jul 3, 2020
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Exactly.
Somewhere on the interballs, a fella called TheDubstepHistorian is debating the same thing...
And deathmetalHistorian. And JazzHistorian. Even SwiftHistorian.

Everyone finds greatness in their beloved genre. ‘Holy’ ‘Truly emotional’, ‘deeper level’.

I mean, Hens, you mentioned the mathematicality makes trance possibly great. But a jazz fan will argue the unpredictability of whatever makes something truly special.
 
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