Trance Classics pres. Enigma State - In My Fantasy [TBC]

Artist name(s)
Enigma State
Release title
In My Fantasy
Label name
TBC
Release type
Single

EnigmaState

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That's what I was thinking about - there already are some great tunes which are sounding quite a lot like classic.....

(take this for example, one of my favourite tunes of 2019, so "Lange-sounding")

George Winkworth - Into Other Worlds

......but still, In My Fantasy is like another level, 100% no modern track elements. This needs to go mainstream among the trance producers.

I can't imagine how amazing it would be to resurrect the trance of 90's (and till 2007 at least)....the classic sound of such labels as Eye Q, Platipus, Bonzai, Discover, Euphonic, Vandit, ID&T, BXR, which had their trademark unrepeatable style and some of which are now releasing just random stuff which barely reminds me of the 'root sound' of these labels.
Im familiar with George Winkworth. He's also the guy from Alltlantis who made Fiji back in the day.
 
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I'd say the early pioneers aren't the ones who are trying to replicate what the real early pioneers did. 😉 I also personally wouldn't want everyone doing it to be honest, emotion over choice of instruments. Your work seems like it nails both, but if everyone starts jumping on the bandwagon because it's "in", it will end up just like uplifting.
So in other words you want the trance scene to continue just like it has been for the past 14 years. Emotion over choice of instruments just means the same fucking bullshit modern trance that has been since then. The main reason trance is a fucking joke is because of the samples being used, not lack of emotion.
 
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Propeller

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Whilst I don't agree that the current trance scene is a total joke as some people think, I do find it weird the way 99% of the 'uplifting' tracks sound. Take for instance the track below, which was posted on this forum a few days ago. The build up is nothing spectacular but not too bad either, then the break starts off with a nice melody too. It's only when the main synth comes in that you realise the producer has made a mess of things.

The lead synth sounds so thin, is full of white noise and it actually becomes difficult to distinguish the main melody from the rest of the noise. It could have been a decent melodic track had the producer used a different technique for the synth and made it stand out properly above the white noise, like the one used in producing In My Fantasy. And it was Talla 2XLC who remixed this, an experienced producer whom probably did not sound like this back in the old days.

So, the question is, has he lost his mind or lost his hearing, is he being lazy and not bothering or does he think that people actually prefer this kind of sound. Maybe someone who is new to trance thinks this is pretty cool and so will buy the record anyway, and Talla gets his money without making much effort. It could also be the combination of all of the above!

 

Gagi

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So in other words you want the trance scene to continue just like it has been for the past 14 years. Emotion over choice of instruments just means the same fucking bullshit modern trance that has been since then. The main reason trance is a fucking joke is because of the samples being used, not lack of emotion.
You got me all wrong. Trance has had little emotion in the past 14 years (but still did to a small degree). In that regard, just going back to old sounds randomly isn't going to do much, if it isn't backed musically. It's just gonna sound nostalgic, that's all.

And where is that emotion that you speak of in modern trance?
 
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Magdelayna

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Yeah to a degree noone tries to make that sound anymore. Look at it as "it's old Trance" but there's no reason why it can't be a current sound.
Jazz and the Blues is old but people still make it, just not this style of Trance.
There is producers who do - theyre just not in the commercial realm as no labels will sign that style so it always goes under the radar. I think comparing Jazz and Blues is different as you cant really make that in an old skool or a modern way hehe.
 

Magdelayna

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Whilst I don't agree that the current trance scene is a total joke as some people think, I do find it weird the way 99% of the 'uplifting' tracks sound. Take for instance the track below, which was posted on this forum a few days ago. The build up is nothing spectacular but not too bad either, then the break starts off with a nice melody too. It's only when the main synth comes in that you realise the producer has made a mess of things.

The lead synth sounds so thin, is full of white noise and it actually becomes difficult to distinguish the main melody from the rest of the noise. It could have been a decent melodic track had the producer used a different technique for the synth and made it stand out properly above the white noise, like the one used in producing In My Fantasy. And it was Talla 2XLC who remixed this, an experienced producer whom probably did not sound like this back in the old days.

So, the question is, has he lost his mind or lost his hearing, is he being lazy and not bothering or does he think that people actually prefer this kind of sound. Maybe someone who is new to trance thinks this is pretty cool and so will buy the record anyway, and Talla gets his money without making much effort. It could also be the combination of all of the above!


Thats actually not a bad track considering modern Trance releases lol - one of the main problems with modern production is that theyre too compressed and loud - but thats down to the labels needs and the current scene in general - producers are forced to make that sound to have any success. Which brings us back around to why the old skool style is hardly made.
 
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DazTC

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I'd like if at least in the release thread here we might remain a little more focused on the track itself guys rather than this simply turning into a debate on current vs old, as well as posting and criticising other modern productions etc.

Don't get me wrong I understand all the reasons why, and a track like this coming in 2021 is certainly going to raise some discussion, but I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from here.
 

EnigmaState

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Whilst I don't agree that the current trance scene is a total joke as some people think, I do find it weird the way 99% of the 'uplifting' tracks sound. Take for instance the track below, which was posted on this forum a few days ago. The build up is nothing spectacular but not too bad either, then the break starts off with a nice melody too. It's only when the main synth comes in that you realise the producer has made a mess of things.

The lead synth sounds so thin, is full of white noise and it actually becomes difficult to distinguish the main melody from the rest of the noise. It could have been a decent melodic track had the producer used a different technique for the synth and made it stand out properly above the white noise, like the one used in producing In My Fantasy. And it was Talla 2XLC who remixed this, an experienced producer whom probably did not sound like this back in the old days.

So, the question is, has he lost his mind or lost his hearing, is he being lazy and not bothering or does he think that people actually prefer this kind of sound. Maybe someone who is new to trance thinks this is pretty cool and so will buy the record anyway, and Talla gets his money without making much effort. It could also be the combination of all of the above!

I see what you're saying.
What I do find from being in Trance production groups is that there is a lot of drive from producers pushing tutorials and Soundbanks for virtual synths, this resulting in many of the same.
People buying them and make tracks that sound like the producer who sold them.
It's a great way to learn, but given that the access to producing music can now be no more than a laptop and free software compared to 20 years ago, the volume of producers is probably 100 times more (if not more).
Another contributor is tha lack of sound design.
This is just some of the factors. There are some truely incredible producers out there, some well known, some not so much, but there's a HUGE volume of casual producers who have no idea about sound design just throwing samples in from the popular Trance sample pack, using the popular preset bank for a popular synth and they make a track flooded with atmospheres.
And I've not even mentioned the guys who sell a template of their released track and someone makes a track sounding the same as the original producer.
Again this isn't all of it, just a portion of the cause.
There are countless releases each week that alot of them sound the same, has nothing unique about it, and they also over shadow some of the exceptional ones too.
None of that is complete gospel and just my own view. I firmly believe a good track is good regardless if it's made on hardware, software or with a kids fisher price keyboard.
I've always said the limitations of a musician is the person creating the music, not the instrument. An instrument can be whatever you want it.
By no means am I an exceptional producer. There's a lot Id love to be able to do, but what's probably stood out with this track of mine is maybe the fact it doesn't sound like the modern trance we know today. Doesn't mean it's exceptional, some will like it, some won't, but that's the beauty of music I suppose.
There will be some who absolutely love the modern trance too.
I'm kind of glad that the reaction to my track has been what it is as it shows there is still an appetite for that sound.
 
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Manofearth

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There is producers who do - theyre just not in the commercial realm as no labels will sign that style so it always goes under the radar.

Where are these producers? Forums like this are that radar, with a more diligent and expansive nature of unrooting tracks ignored by the majority. We have a thread here for 'classic sounds' and its all house/techno guys who have got the sounds to about 75% of what we would expect or be familiar with, but it's not Trance and its not like this. If it existed it would be found, even if buried amongst 10,000 tracks. If you can share even 3 tracks that sound like this one above, with that somewhat traditional trance structure then I would be surprised. I'm asking in fact to see that.
 
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dmgtz96

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In the context of the technology that has been developed over the past 20 years, it is fascinating that someone out there produced music with old tech. It's like actively using a flip phone instead of a smart phone. That being said, In My Fantasy feels authentic unlike the recent '90s imitations from techno producers. Don't get me wrong, tracks like Sligo - Aurora (Julian Muller) do a good job at capturing the '90s feeling, but you can tell they are imitations.
This is the real deal.

@ the producers,

How much more difficult was this to make compared to a typical Ableton trance track?
One of the barriers to making trance of this style is the high barrier to entry, as the old equipment is fairly expensive. For example, a Roland JP-8000 is worth around $2,295 USD. What was it like to collect all this equipment?
I cannot imagine there being many 'tutorials' to use the old-school equipment, or even a guide to produce old-school trance. Did the equipment come with manuals? How did you figure out how to recreate the old trance sound? Did you just mess around with it for months until you got it right? Or did you get in touch with old-school producers who could pass on that knowledge?
Now that you know how to produce old, millennium trance, what would you like to do to improve upon it? I would say it's safe to assume that most producers of yesteryear did not push this tech to its boundaries, which is why a lot of old trance feels simple. I wonder what would happen if you tried to produce something significantly more complex, like a tech demo of what could have been, and truly pushed this tech to its limits.
 
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EnigmaState

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In the context of the technology that has been developed over the past 20 years, it is fascinating that someone out there produced music with old tech. It's like actively using a flip phone instead of a smart phone. That being said, In My Fantasy feels authentic unlike the recent '90s imitations from techno producers. Don't get me wrong, tracks like Sligo - Aurora (Julian Muller) do a good job at capturing the '90s feeling, but you can tell they are imitations.
This is the real deal.

@ the producers,

How much more difficult was this to make compared to a typical Ableton trance track?
One of the barriers to making trance of this style is the high barrier to entry, as the old equipment is fairly expensive. For example, a Roland JP-8000 is worth around $2,295 USD. What was it like to collect all this equipment?
I cannot imagine there being many 'tutorials' to use the old-school equipment, or even a guide to produce old-school trance. Did the equipment come with manuals? How did you figure out how to recreate the old trance sound? Did you just mess around with it for months until you got it right? Or did you get in touch with old-school producers who could pass on that knowledge?
Now that you know how to produce old, millennium trance, what would you like to do to improve upon it? I would say it's safe to assume that most producers of yesteryear did not push this tech to its boundaries, which is why a lot of old trance feels simple. I wonder what would happen if you tried to produce something significantly more complex, like a tech demo of what could have been, and truly pushed this tech to its limits.
To try and keep the reply short and answer the question 🙂

-The track build is produced using the latest version of Cubase and a modern day interface and not difficult to do.
-Cubase is used to trigger the MIDI to the synths and drum machines.
-Each sound needed to be recorded individually.
-Buying the equipment was part of a studio rebuild over the last year. It's a blend of old hardware/new hardware and modern clones of old hardware.
-The Drum machine runs into an analog mixing desk giving me hands on EQ control of the drums done in the same way as it was back in the day.
-The synthesizers runs direct into my audio interface individual inputs (modern as it was all though mixing desks years ago)
- Some came with manuals which I've glanced over, I have a medium to fairly good bit of knowledge on sound design anyway through learning.
- To recreate the old sound I find less is more. Back then there was limitations on how many channels you could use. So unlike today's trance which tracks can have channels in excess of 100+, multiple layers with isolated frequencies,3 bass sound, 3/4 lead sound.
Mine has : ~1 sound for the bass.
~ 8 for the drums
~2 for string/pad
~ 2 for main lead
~ 2 for the whisper (which is both my daughter's)
~ 4 synth/ drum effects
- I have spoken to Lange on occasions. These producers from back then did push the tech to the limit, but they also had tech limitations when it came to recording his many channels.
Lange mentioned the guys remix of Happiness Happening was made using a mono synth the Novation BassStation. Things like the JP8000 was still expensive so producers had to work for their sound.
- I did start making music around the time the earlier Trance was in its prime, so it was never lost.
- I don't have aim to improve on it per-se. My overall aim is just to make some classic sounding Trance with the advantages of modern day technology.
- My studio is no different really then Ferry Corstens. He has some of the same hardware and uses the same Cubase as I do.

Let's not confuse though, this sound can be made without the fancy hardware I've bought.
My aim personally as an artist is just to make some good wholesome early Trance sounds
 

dmgtz96

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- I don't have aim to improve on it per-se. My overall aim is just to make some classic sounding Trance with the advantages of modern day technology.

Let's not confuse though, this sound can be made without the fancy hardware I've bought.
My aim personally as an artist is just to make some good wholesome early Trance sounds
That's kind of the answer I was looking for, to be honest, and it's perfectly valid. It's good that you can integrate modern tech with old tech.
So this is super random, but would you know (or estimate) how many people around the world today could do what you did? Maybe dozens of people at most (~48-60)?
 

EnigmaState

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That's kind of the answer I was looking for, to be honest, and it's perfectly valid. It's good that you can integrate modern tech with old tech.
So this is super random, but would you know (or estimate) how many people around the world today could do what you did? Maybe dozens of people at most (~48-60)?
Thats impossible to know I'm afraid.
I would say anyone on the Trance scene is capable of making that classic Trance sound.
I could make this track on software synthesizers, 100%.
The hardware equipment element for me is I like to be hands on when making music. That part not everyone can do unless you learn, especially if they have never used hardware synthesizers which has its challenges which is a whole other topic.

I expect the next question would be why don't people make this music in this style of Trance if it's possible? I'm not sure in honesty.

There's still this whole "put your f***ing hands up" down drop thing that's annoyingly transferred over from EDM.

In short, anyone can make this music, if they have the passion and will to do so.
For me personally I grown tired of hearing the modern Trance sound. It's tiresome, it sounds like the same person made it all, and I just wasn't enjoying it. I'm not going to make a much money from it, so why do something just because that's the direction everyone else is going but not enjoy it? That's why I wanted to go backwards.
 
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TranceForLife

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What a tune! Unbelievable is fact that in nowadays someone yet want to produce tracks like this. Let me support Your tune on ASOT Team Poland fanpage on FB. I know They are going to love it.
 

Manofearth

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Not everything shows up on Trancefix lol. Thats my point :LOL:

Of course, but I am talking about this forum as one example, and also about the obscure YT channels, small subreddits and minnows in the bandcamp stores. These are the places you would see cases of this Trance being made, people would find it. On a personal level I might spend hours upon hours a week just 'crate-digging' through the aforementioned and there is nothing. I know it's the same for others here. I want to be wrong and happy to be proved so. Even 1 or 2 producers would be a start.
 
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Daysleeper

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Of course, but I am talking about this forum as one example, and also about the obscure YT channels, small subreddits and minnows in the bandcamp stores. These are the places you would see cases of this Trance being made, people would find it. On a personal level I might spend hours upon hours a week just 'crate-digging' through the aforementioned and there is nothing. I know it's the same for others here. I want to be wrong and happy to be proved so. Even 1 or 2 producers would be a start.

Yeah, we all know the "regular" 5-10 producers that make kinda more authentic oldschool trance, but it isnt like this track here even.
 

EnigmaState

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Love the fact its all made on hardware...would like to see a breakdown vid after of where every element comes from. Id love to get some hardware in the future..!
This is a short video going through the core parts of the track 🙂