UFOs and Aliens

[Julian Del Agranda]

I like the Zimbabwe School story.

But it's silly too. So aliens are flying around for decades. They see humans fucking it all up. So they decide to warn us. Just once. And for their message they choose something that cannot be shown as evidence, a telepatic message. And as the human-receiver they choose underdeveloped ones, young children. And within the group of kids on earth they choose a group in an underdeveloped country, Zimbabwe.

How stupid are those aliens if that were true? They must have known about a little thing called "television" in 1994. It would make more sense to visit the USA, Europe, Russia and China in a little World-tour and make sure the entire human race receives your message. Well, maybe not China back then. But you catch my drift. You obviously visit the most influental people/countries...

 

[Archon]

Just dreamt about a strange aircraft doing incredible flight manoeuvres right over my head, and I wasn't even scared. Just remember thinking: "Holy shit, those guys on TranceFix were right..."

 

[Jetflag]

I like the Zimbabwe School story.

But it's silly too. So aliens are flying around for decades. They see humans fucking it all up. So they decide to warn us. Just once. And for their message they choose something that cannot be shown as evidence, a telepatic message. And as the human-receiver they choose underdeveloped ones, young children. And within the group of kids on earth they choose a group in an underdeveloped country, Zimbabwe.

How stupid are those aliens if that were true? They must have known about a little thing called "television" in 1994. It would make more sense to visit the USA, Europe, Russia and China in a little World-tour and make sure the entire human race receives your message. Well, maybe not China back then. But you catch my drift. You obviously visit the most influental people/countries...

i recommend the following channel/playlist in reference to these and other questions concerning this topic in particular:

 

[TwinSilo]

I like the Zimbabwe School story.

I recommend watching the documentary The Phenomenon, it just came out and has a large segment on this event as well as others like it.

It is hard to make sense of it I agree. Why would they tell children or humanity like this, when there are more effective ways? But the children were to the ones to approach the craft and beings, not the other way around, and the messages appeared I think mainly to the ones who made direct eye contact with them. So rather than these beings landing with a mission to save earth, they could have been there for other reasons and upon seeing the children (randomly) the thoughts or sentiments were transferred over or picked up peripherally by the minds of the children. They may be passing by and have 0 knowledge of who we are, or even if what child is. The beings themselves were 4ft, smaller than children. Failing to rationalize the behavior of intelligent life is not very surprising. Who knows the purpose, feelings, communicative frameworks or goals they operate with. Maybe other species who do understand us are indeed in contact with the relevant individuals and believe doing it behind the scenes, smart enough to know that it's better like this than taking over every TV channel and broadcasting messages.

If you don't want to watch the documentary you can watch a short video below of the Harvard psychiatrist interviewing some of the children. What is the explanations given by those who thinks it not alien? Over 60 children saw it, also some teachers and also others in the area who saw the craft that day and in the days leading up to it. They draw pictures of aliens and flying saucers, they share the same reported cognitive messaging. There is no question these children came in contact with something and those vehicles.

 

[Juna]

Yes sirs, all must watch this documentary "Phenenomon" as put above. Truly special collection of the events of UFO world and history. I think there is maybe 50 different military and gov dudes talking in the film. The doubters here who think this is impossible to be true should make that effort to watch because you will leave questioning your assumptions before and in a very serious way.

Zimbabwe school is one but how about the Australian school also in the doc, with 100 people who saw the high speed flying metal disc? It's australian school 1966. Teachers, villagers, schools children still describe it to this day. It moves faster than the eye, it tilts from horizontal to verticle, it has no loud noise for the movement. The military swamp the town in 24 hours and tell everyone that this never happened. Why this action from them if just illusion or boring thing?

 

[Manofearth]

I watched an Interview with by the Washington Post yesterday, one that only peaked my interest due to the following of this thread, but one I wanted to share with you folks as I know some here might find it interesting.

The man being interviewed is called Luis Elizondo and he was apparently the Director of the Pentagons program for studying what he calls UAP's (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon). Short interview, but with concise lines of questioning, in which he says that they know "unequivocally" its not secret US tech, and also that Russia and China lack the capabilities too. I don't know how they can be so sure, but a new report is mentioned. What I will say is that I find it hard to believe the Pentagon and the US Gov are going through all these motions and conclusions yet it's just confusion created from birds in the sky, planets, stars or weather balloons. Fascinating watch I must say.

 

[Jetflag]

What I will say is that I find it hard to believe the Pentagon and the US Gov are going through all these motions and conclusions yet it's just confusion created from birds in the sky, planets, stars or weather balloons.

4 words:

-gibs

-moar

-defense

-budget

 

[Jetflag]

it just perplexes me how many people take the output of US militairy intelligence (of all trustworthy organisations) at face value based on the pretty blue puppy eyes of their (former) representatives and their lived experiences.

Not 1 year back pretty much every single UFO enthusiast was united in the idea that at the very least. Those bastards where "hiding the truth" and that we should storm Area 51, and that whatever came out of the pentagon, those split-tongued corporate suit representatives would use whatever for their own advantage, money and where definitely not to be trusted.

2021: Look! Us intelligence releases UFO footage, it must be true that aliens exist and are visiting us then!

So glad the Pentagon suddenly turned full-honest overnight now that they’re confirming my preferred narrative!



k, sorry, pedantic smug rant over, just needed to get that off my chest.

 

[Manofearth]

That option of defence funding is certainly on the table Jetflag. Would you then say its more likely that Mr Elizondo, Mr Melon, Mr Reid and Mr Ratcliffe are using the cases and pilots from events like Nimitz and others in an opportunistic manner, taking the unexplained nature of those sightings and threading it into a wider implied narrative of extraterrestrials? Or would the pilots be part the conspiracy as well? I think the former seems more likely.

Howver there are a few things that bother me with this scenario, the same one which my friend also proposed to me when we discussed this earlier this morning. I am wondering why the US would need to go to such lengths to get this funding? I believe they have the most funded military in the world, with the most jaw dropping of budgets dedicated. They have been highly capable of getting the money they need so far. I also remember the 3 trillion the Pentagon announced as unaccountable back in the 00's. Thats amount of money that's almost incomprehensible. It must have gone somewhere, with a logical conclusion landing at the military's feet. The point is that acquiring money for defence and military seems no problem whatsoever, both through official channels, in secret or criminally.

Secondly I question the elaborate nature of this strategy, and this is my major concern. Convincing the world of aliens is much harder than convincing the US public of threat from foreign invaders. Telling the citizens that Russia has advanced weaponry and vehicles and they operate them in US skies is much more believable and galvanizing than an alien invasion. It would be far more effective in raising funding, if this was the goal.

Whatever the case, something vastly strange is happening right now.

 

[Jetflag]

That option of defence funding is certainly on the table Jetflag. Would you then say its more likely that Mr Elizondo, Mr Melon, Mr Reid and Mr Ratcliffe are using the cases and pilots from events like Nimitz and others in an opportunistic manner, taking the unexplained nature of those sightings and threading it into a wider implied narrative of extraterrestrials? Or would the pilots be part the conspiracy as well? I think the former seems more likely.

Howver there are a few things that bother me with this scenario, the same one which my friend also proposed to me when we discussed this earlier this morning. I am wondering why the US would need to go to such lengths to get this funding? I believe they have the most funded military in the world, with the most jaw dropping of budgets dedicated. They have been highly capable of getting the money they need so far. I also remember the 3 trillion the Pentagon announced as unaccountable back in the 00's. Thats amount of money that's almost incomprehensible. It must have gone somewhere, with a logical conclusion landing at the military's feet. The point is that acquiring money for defence and military seems no problem whatsoever, both through official channels, in secret or criminally.

Secondly I question the elaborate nature of this strategy, and this is my major concern. Convincing the world of aliens is much harder than convincing the US public of threat from foreign invaders. Telling the citizens that Russia has advanced weaponry and vehicles and they operate them in US skies is much more believable and galvanizing than an alien invasion. It would be far more effective in raising funding, if this was the goal.

Whatever the case, something vastly strange is happening right now.

It doesn't have to be either or.. It can perfectly be a combo of both and I actually happen to think it is. And they're not going to such lengths m8, in fact this is ridiciously cheap/ easy for them.

The US militairy is a vast insitute with millions of people. Its not going to be that hard finding at least a couple of pilots who genuinly think they saw something/ had that experience. This aside from the discussion on whether its factually true or not. Then all the pentagon has to do is approach a couple of former friendly collegues and ask them if they're awilling to step in for team-and-country one more time, maybe add a little extra pension bonus (which, given the militairy's highly tribal/loyalist nature, I don't even think you have to do, just appeal to their sense of patriotism) combine that with nice selection of a few vague infrared, visual and radar recordings of which you have a vast archive, which you strategically and with lots of poohah release...

Et voila.

Within no time you'll have a large portion of the US public Democrat and Republican alike (and so in term the vast majority of senators who wish to keep their job) on your side when you ask for "more funding to further investigate these strange object / develop tech/counter measures"

you don't even need to lie or manufacture anything. like I said the pentagon has a vast archive of footage of which you only need to select a few that are vague enough for any expert to proclaim they can't be 100% sure, even though it in all likelyhood is the aforementioned bird or plane infrared.

You gotta remember here that the Pentagon has been in hot water the last couple of years.

- the war in syria defacto lost to assad/the russians.
- Russia and China having their first gen 5 fighter planes operational, in production, and cheaper then both the f22/f35
- both the f35 and f22 being a financial disaster to begin with
- an expensive navy becoming more and more obsolete/old
- shift in us politics focussing initial militairy funding to environmental projects.
-etc.

Its brilliantly elegant, simple and cheap if you think about it, and if they pull it of right, and wag the dog properly...they even can safe themselves the hourly expenses of white-house lobbyists. The narrative, internet and desperate for relevance media would have done all the work for them.

they don't need to convide the Us public that aliens exist, most of them probably already do in some form or another. all that is needed to do is convince a lot of them that this is "worhty of further investigation"

but we needs funding for that.

 

[Jetflag]

Oh! look.

Marco Rubio, (chairman of the Senate Intelligen committee at the time, fears that UFO's might be RUSSIAN or CHINESE TECH

Marco Rubio Hopes UFOs Are Aliens, Not Chinese Planes

"Frankly, if it’s something outside this planet that might actually be better than the fact that we’ve seen some sort of technological leap from the Chinese or Russians."

www.vice.com

dun dun duuuuun!

well we can't have that can we? -> G$bs!

And whats this?

Gary roughead, former admiral/ Chief of Naval operations uptill 2011, sais quote: "most of the assessments were inconclusive"?
and that development of unmanned autonomous aircraft that had the capability to be used as submersible military assets was a priority of the US, as well as other nations such as CH1N4 and Ru55I4?

Military Daily News

Daily updates of everything that you need know about what is going on in the military community and abroad including military gear and equipment, breaking news, international news and more.

www.military.com

dun dun duuuuun.

best not leave this up to slow and impartial science insitutions. -> G$bs!

because over here:

even highly esteemed physicists speculated that it quote: "was possible the UFOs in the videos are "drones deployed by rivals like Chin4se and RUs414H! to examine our defenses — luring our pilots into turning on their radar and other detectors, thus revealing our electronic intelligence capabilities"

Opinion | I’m a Physicist Who Searches for Aliens. U.F.O.s Don’t Impress Me. (Published 2021)

There are good reasons to believe in extraterrestrial intelligence, but this is not one of them.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Manofearth]

Our argument then is that the US Government is in the process of hoaxing it's citizens into the belief that a hypothetical alien threat or invasion is about to take place. That is utterly bizarre. It's an unprecedented form of conspiracy actually, of which the idea would have been laughed at by folk under different circumstances. It absolutely could be the case, but my god there is nothing casual or simple about this scheme, it's a perplexing approach.

The different involvement by the members of congress and the senate, the former defence intelligence folk Mr Melon, the head of current intelligence, the CIA folk and this Pentagon UAP official, who are all pushing this alien story determines that the conspiracy has become extensive and elaborate enough to penetrate many different agencies, institutions and echelons of US politics and defense. Do we also include the astronauts that someone posted above also into the plot? The indicators are pointing towards complexity, collaboration and with a depth of planning. Not casual.

I'm confused though why you shared the two article and quotes from Mr Rubio and Mr Roughead? They neither dismiss aliens nor confirm them. They don't say it's Russia or China, they say 'I don't know'.

Again, as this is a hurdle, I have to ask why pick Aliens over Russia or China as the premise for the threat? It would be more believable and effective at getting gov and citizen backing. Many are understandably ridiculed for holding or pursuing such beliefs on UFO's. It simply does not make sense to run with this extraterrestrial conspiracy over the other options, where is the logic driving this decision?

I'm not trying to debate you on this I should say, as I believe this situation to be very plausible, but I am open minded and there are red flags and illogical aspects in this theory that need to be worked out in order to strengthen it and I enjoy seeing your take jetflag. Interested to see what the others think.

 

[Hensmon]

The conspiracy also stretches not just across different levels of US politics, but also multiple decades as well. The Canadian and UK governments are also in on it too it seems, or perhaps they have equally concluded that a mass alien visitation hoax is needed for more money too?

 

[Jetflag]

Our argument then is that the US Government is in the process of hoaxing it's citizens into the belief that a hypothetical alien threat or invasion is about to take place.

they never claimed or used the words alien threat, you (and I) just did and with us X thousand people more all they did was release the footage (out of the goodness of their hearts presumably .why else would you all of a sudden release top secret UFO footage after keeping this secret for so long?)

That is utterly bizarre. It's an unprecedented form of conspiracy actually,

Why would that be utterly bizarre? If they (and as Hensmon points out, other NATO countries) are perfectly willing to lie to your face and start a massive illegal war over in Irak, costing billions and billions of lives over the lie of "we have evidence of weapons of mass destruction" That had to go through the whole bureaucratic mill didn't it? same with things like the Lockheed scandal,

Why then would you deem it so ludicrous for them to just release a bunch of vague "secret" footage of unidentified objects, to sway public opinion more in favor of something as mundaine as additional airforce research/funding?

I wouldn't even label this a conspiracy or a cover up. This is what the pentagon does all the time to get more funds, the only difference this time went directly for the public/social media instead of the senators via the backdoor. Smart move. they're learning

hell, i wouldn't even call it lying.. The narrative/ stories already existed, the footage appears to be genuine/untampered with. so camera, infrared and radar imagery vague enough to warrant the label "dunno precisely" which is what they and every relevant expert proclaim when asked what their official statement on this is.

where's the lie?

- They neither dismiss aliens nor confirm them. They don't say it's Russia or China, they say 'I don't know'./
* I have to ask why pick Aliens over Russia or China as the premise for the threat?

- correct, they don't -> but they do mention them as well as the possibility that it might be aliens. they "just dont know" better gibs $ for more research ey?

* they don't. they're official stance is "we don't know, more research needed" Why favour the most improbable option out of the two when you can just stay in the middle of things and spin both narratives simultaneously? Hard statements like "this is an alien threat" or "this is a chinese threat" period. are going to backfire as the whole science community will probably shout hogwash, and rightfully so.

It simply does not make sense to run with this extraterrestrial conspiracy over the other options, where is the logic driving this decision

the majority of the US public believes in the possibility of extraterrestrial life, half of the population believes in UFO's as discussed in this topic.

and they, (the us militairy), aren't running the buzz at least not anymore

a handfull of pilots and ex-employees did, now you , and Hensmon is, and Juna is, Tucker carlson is and I am just by participating in this thread can't you see the brilliance of it?

or perhaps they have equally concluded that a mass alien visitation hoax is needed for more money too?

Fellow NATO countries/ militaries, with very close ties and a long history of following daddy America on military issues having also concluded that this is a very easy way of swaying the public opinion into dumping money into militairy research.

nah.. out of the question.

I'm not trying to debate you on this I should say, as I believe this situation to be very plausible, but I am open minded and there are red flags and illogical aspects in this theory that need to be worked out in order to strengthen it and I enjoy seeing your take jetflag. Interested to see what the others think.

same goes for hensmon/ juna etc. aswell by the way

 

[Manofearth]

No Jetflag, that is not correct with your conclusion that they leaving this open for interpretation and not claiming aliens or with a casual approach. Did you watch the Washington Post interview I shared? His statement was a clear one at the begging, that with certainty they have determined the vehicles are not from the US or the major world powers. They are actively going out of the way to rule out that scenario and appearing on every news channel to do so, it’s an aggressive approach. There is further reference to 1000 g-forces of speed and describing shapes synonymous with spaceships. He leaves no room for anything but a non-human answer and says as much. There are some interviews I have watched also of Mr Ratcliffe making the same statements. The message is clear.

Therefore my concern still remains glaring. Why are they ruling out China and Russia as the threat, and instead choosing to pursue the strangest hoax narrative I’ve ever seen put forward from a government? “Aliens are visiting us”. What? It IS bizarre. It's a highly ineffective strategy for funding in comparison to the former, what are we missing here? I am not into conspiracies at all, so I’m really trying to look for the rational reasoning behind this in order to get fully onboard.

It must be said that If these vehicles are as we think, not alien, then it means the Chinese or Russians have developed a vehicle that can penetrate US airforce without being detected, identified or matched and have been doing so frequently. Why would they dismiss that reality in favor of an unbelievable fake one? It's a shocking revelation for the worlds geopolitical dynamics, it’s the biggest story of the last 20 years if the Russians are doing this. Historically when we’ve seen fighter jets move into a foreign airspace the whole political and media show goes frantically ballistic.

If Mr Ratcliffe told members of congress, the public and the president that the Russians were behind this they would have a heart attack, the budgets would be unmeasurable and swiftly delivered, the reaction would be that of catastrophe, on every page of the world news, and rightly so. When Mr Ratcliffe tells us it’s aliens he chooses something intangible/hypothetical, many laugh in his face, many like us believe a conspiracy for funding is taking place. Whose to say the UFOs from outer space would even be perceived as a threat by the public? You must also see the problems with everything we are discussing here.

 

[Hot Tuna]

1000G is an absolutely mental, inconceivable figure to throw around, and makes their argument sound less credible. It's difficult to visualise acceleration but from zero, the object would be around 35,000km away in one second. I don't think any recording equipment, let alone the human eye, could see that.

 

[Hensmon]

I don't think any recording equipment, let alone the human eye, could see that.

You would pick up the signature of an object on radar and then follow that signature at a different positions, calculating the distance and time between each position.

And that's exactly what they did by the way in the Nimitz case. You will have to forgive me for beating the dead horse @jetflag but Kevin Day was the Senior Chief on the USS Princeton and in this interview, and in his own words, tracked "50/60 of these objects[...]flying in formation[..]over a 5 day period". He oversaw the entire event and was responsible for capturing the data and operating the response from the Princeton.

Time stamps of his interview;

16:20 - "It was shocking, after we saw this object drop out of the sky like it did, and spy tracked it perfectly all the way down to the surface, we had highest track quality possible during this whole time."

6:00 - “The technicians were doing diagnostics on everything we had to make sure it wasn’t a system malfunctions... and it turned at that it wasn’t, these were actually real objects. We had highest track quality possible during this whole time."

20:40 - "At this point we have all these objects on the data links…the fighter pilots picked an object on the data link and drove towards it and as soon as they did all the objects in the sky all dropped out of the sky from 28,000ft to 50ft, and then when the interceptors left the scene of action they all popped back up at 28,000ft and kept going south at 100knots as if nothing interesting had happened… something going that slow and that height is going to fall out of the sky[...]Yeah the technicians Gary and his crew shut down the radar and do diagnostics tests on everything we had to make sure it wasn’t malfunctions of some kind”

Thats "perfectly tracked" data and with system malfunctions ruled out, during the live event. His words, not mine! In fact the same Youtube channel has another interview with that same technician Kevin Day mentions, the guy responsible for the radar systems and running the diagnostics - thats here. He talks about tracking up the objects over 5 days, shutting the system down and then turning back on and “the only thing it did is make the tracks clearer”.

What is the theory now then? Vehicles cannot fly 100 knots at 28,000ft. The speed from that height to 50ft in 0.78 second is Mac 32, which is 26,679mph @Hot Tuna. Kevin Day is the one who gives those same radar targets to the pilots i.e Fravor, who just so happens to arrive at one and witness something he says is beyond his understanding. Well?

 

[Nerio]

For Believers i have 2 pretty good documentary about this topic first: "Jose Escamilla - Ufo The Greatest Story Ever Denied (2006) If you want more from him watch JOSE ESCAMILLA
Moon Rising.
and: "Phil Schneider Deadmen Tell No Tales"
About that release ufo video, which the government confirmed, here is STS footage from 1996
This is all good and nice, but all the evidence we have is that donut shaped Unidentified Flying Object or witness testimony for 80+years, what we need now is physical evidence. Something what we can touch, examine.
And if you think that it is easy to public this information, think again when congres even president do not have "need to know" as former CIA officer Kevin Shipp said:

 

[Jetflag]

You would pick up the signature of an object on radar and then follow that signature at a different positions, calculating the distance and time between each position.

And that's exactly what they did by the way in the Nimitz case. You will have to forgive me for beating the dead horse @jetflag but Kevin Day was the Senior Chief on the USS Princeton and in this interview, and in his own words, tracked "50/60 of these objects[...]flying in formation[..]over a 5 day period". He oversaw the entire event and was responsible for capturing the data and operating the response from the Princeton.

Time stamps of his interview;

16:20 - "It was shocking, after we saw this object drop out of the sky like it did, and spy tracked it perfectly all the way down to the surface, we had highest track quality possible during this whole time."

6:00 - “The technicians were doing diagnostics on everything we had to make sure it wasn’t a system malfunctions... and it turned at that it wasn’t, these were actually real objects. We had highest track quality possible during this whole time."

20:40 - "At this point we have all these objects on the data links…the fighter pilots picked an object on the data link and drove towards it and as soon as they did all the objects in the sky all dropped out of the sky from 28,000ft to 50ft, and then when the interceptors left the scene of action they all popped back up at 28,000ft and kept going south at 100knots as if nothing interesting had happened… something going that slow and that height is going to fall out of the sky[...]Yeah the technicians Gary and his crew shut down the radar and do diagnostics tests on everything we had to make sure it wasn’t malfunctions of some kind”

Thats "perfectly tracked" data and with system malfunctions ruled out, during the live event. His words, not mine! In fact the same Youtube channel has another interview with that same technician Kevin Day mentions, the guy responsible for the radar systems and running the diagnostics - thats here. He talks about tracking up the objects over 5 days, shutting the system down and then turning back on and “the only thing it did is make the tracks clearer”.

What is the theory now then? Vehicles cannot fly 100 knots at 28,000ft. The speed from that height to 50ft in 0.78 second is Mac 32, which is 26,679mph @Hot Tuna. Kevin Day is the one who gives those same radar targets to the pilots i.e Fravor, who just so happens to arrive at one and witness something he says is beyond his understanding. Well?

ah yes. the "testimonies" and "interviews" ...

you're forgiven, now please forgive me for beating this one again:

->testimonial evidence is weak evidence <-

regardless of it being a former us military topjock and his radar tech who "saw" something
or a Cardinal who, along side his bishops. testify that they really really really did see X statue bleed.

Where are the actual "perfectly functioning" radar plot of the Nimitz encounter then? why wasn't that released and other relevant documents alongside it?
i've searched high and low and can only find the video footage released by the pentagon, which was already busted 2 pages ago..and two "scientific" articles, one being from "the scientific coalition of ufology" which is a known crackpot pseudoscience group on-par with things like the IONS and the Safire project. they're basically fabricating evidence in favor of their model, which is the opposite of science.

so no, its actually yet to be proven that it was actually a verhicle flying a 100 knots at 28,000 ft (in favor of the previously mentioned far more plausible and mundaine explanations such as a plane or duck being parallaxed or glitched) before you can even slapstick that, or in fact any theory on it.

 

[Archon]

->testimonial evidence is weak evidence <-

If I could sum up the entire debate here, it would be with this sentence.

Wish more people would educate themselves on how science and the entire scientific process actually works, and what constitutes scientific proof.

Why? Well, I'm much more inclined to trust a peer-reviewed article than a claim by some bloke(s) on JRE/news/etc - whoever he is.

Let's, then, talk about, why the articles about UFOs aren't published and peer-reviewed in well-established scientific magazines?