Don't really know where to begin with this one. I get frustrated with both the woke and the anti-woke, in fact the whole discussion, debate and over analysis of the issue frustrates me, it's like a soap opera.
well I’m just glad you finally replied took you two weeks m8, and that would explain why you initially reacted quite heavily to me saying something as mundaine as: “it doesn’t help that there is X dominant culture” I never said it was the prime cause, I said it doesn’t help having it around and might very well contribute negatively.
The left show stupidity and painful naivety and the right indulge themselves in tribalism, reductionism and conspiracy, whilst offering nothing in return to real problems.
I might very well be that those real problems are only solvable the best way, and not the perfect way. A notion I happen to personally subscribe to. However that aside:
The left endulges itself in tribalism, reductionism and conspiracy just as much as the right does, and in case of tribalism I would argue even more. This stems partially from left’s ideological drive for “equality” pushing them to constantly seek out new oppressed subgroups and inequalities in every group or class or aspect of society, no matter how minor, which is how you end up with things like “anarcho non trans exclusionairy feminists” They are, on virtually every political metric, Far more subdivided, tribal and arguabably puritan then what is now the right. (Which is why there’s no such phrase as “the right eats itself” )
The right is also massive stupid in certain areas, recent example the social media theme park fiasco in Florida. Blunt Naivety is something I would place more on the left though, since it is mainly concerned with what could be, utopia, as opposed to the right which is mainly concerned with what is, (harsch) reality. which is also where its somewhat uncaring/unsympathetic tone comes from, for which its often (unjustly) criticized. (bit of a Side track as this is a political generalization, not woke culture specifically)
What's worse is that it's all taking place inside the Twitter and Youtube bubble, which is not reflective of the world and the majority of people's views. The dying mainstream media latch onto it because its simple, emotive and tribalistic in nature and it drives engagement more than anything, which shapes the discussion further, a cycle that intensifies. It's a false representation of reality. It's shaping public discourse and thinking space via extreme minority views which now serve as anchoring points for the various perspectives, it's self perpetuating. It's why I have a hard time with your choice of wokeness as the focus for depression and suicide. The topic feels so manufactured to me, very sensationalized, artificial. How come you feel this deserves the emphasis when compared to other reasons?
And its why I’m having a hard time with you downplaying it the way you do (and even started a specific thread for it) This is probably one of if not the main spear point for our disagreement. And what I reckon to actually be a false representation of reality on your part .. your assumption that its all taking place inside (social) media. When that is demonstrably NOT the case. Its not “just” the media or the dark corners of the internet anymore, and it hasn’t been for quite a while now.
Woke culture is in mainstream politics:
-affirmative action,
- mandatory unconscious bias training,
- critical race theory
- even in an overwhelmingly “conservative” (if you can even call them that) government in the UK, A what now turns out to long cover up of thousands of child-rape cases, by government institutions. for the sake of "diversity" as one politician tweeted out.
Woke culture is dominant in Universities:
-Anywhere from the humanities (which have been totally subverted), Philosophy, where for instance thinkers like Ayn rand are actively shunned from the curriculum for ideological reasons. STEM fields, where the aforementioned government affirmative action is being pushed in the admission of students, all the way down to woke student protest groups who’re over representative on campus as opposed to those more classical liberal/conservative oriented. And anything in the universities now (or 30 years ago!) , follows irl 5 years later.
Woke culture is dominant in the work place. Especially in larger companies.
- Ranging anywhere from virtually any Big tech to Big 4 who go out of their way to virtue signal how lgbtq+ they are. To preferential hiring of minorities, to termination of contracts who’s idea’s aren’t “woke” enough. (which nearly happened to my wife)
Woke culture is dominant in media and entertainment: I don’t think this needs further exampling as the washlist will be 10 pages.
Woke culture is now being pushed in lower education: where the topic of say: transsexuality and gender dysphoria is now proposed and in some instances already educated to children as young as 5 years old. As well as rare instance of critical race theory such as the white ally, white oppressor cards in a recent scandal.
what you’re claiming, that its all nothing, manufactured and exclusively on the net.
Is just not true. Hensmon. It’s a falsehood. It directly intrudes in the daily lives of people who aren’t all fedora wearing basement dwellers..
Expectations is definitely a valid reason people get depressed, but why not the burden of expectations in the context of careers, goals, family, friends, self-imposed, relationships, even our dreams? And how does the burden of expectations compare to things like substance abuse, lack of jobs/purpose, lack of connection to our environment, lack of human relationships, nutritional deficiencies, gut health, economic hardships, pollutants in our airs and water, exposure to violent content, pornography, social media etc. Many of these are all well studied and substantiated.
A recent example would be the study which attributed
745,194 deaths to over working. Job expectations? Corporate exploitation? Work over health?
So there’s something we agree on, (constant, unreasonable) expectations are a valid reason for depression. As established above: Woke culture is in careers, the home, education, media/entertainment, politics etc. virtually all aspects of society.
now imagen the following: you’re a, in this case western, male who’s (genetically) prone to depression. (we’re not talking about the well balanced stoïc strong farmer here)
And there’s X culture dominant in all those aspects of the society you live in and you’re confronted with that:
- 2 minutes after you wake up and you walk in to your living room with your mom listening or watching to the BBC,
- then at the bus stop where a advert reminds you that “you need to do better”
- then at your uni,
- then later at work,
- then later back home where you want to engage in some well needed escapism in the form of a movie or a videogame.
day in, day out, day in, day out. day in , day out.
And that X culture basically revolves around You bad, Women weak, minorities oppressed. basically telling you in not so subtle way’s that you’re an oppressor and a mysogenist and a racist because of history and skintone.
why is it such a stretch in your imagination to reasonably assume that this, to use my earlier words “is not very helpful” potentially leads to more escapism in the form of substance abuse/ fastfood/ pornography, lack of confidence/more broken relationships in a downward spiral to, consequently, more: suicide.
Parallels can notably be drawn to certain religious sekts/groups aswell who, instead of encouraging their followers, berate and guilt trip them. Who also see e an increase in suicides as opposed to more balanced doctrines. (don’t have the articles at hand now but they’re out there)
The exception with Woke culture is that Woke culture does not threaten you with eternal torture if you indeed decide to kill yourself.
as for your
745,194 deaths to over working, stat. Since when are we talking about truck drivers with sleep depravity? we're talking about male suicide. they're not the same catagory.