Help! I can't mix the way I want to and monitor at the same time.

[atlien]

Hi all-

First, forgive me for asking this question but I am a newbie and I'm fed up with searching for answers on Google.

My mixer is typical in that it has 3 frequency knobs for each deck - they control hi's, mid's and lo's.

When I mix two tracks together, I generally like to let a track in deck A play, cue up a track in deck B, beatmatch them, and then wait for the right timing to start sliding the fader over. However, I am running into problems with my mixing style and the issue of drifting.

For my mixing style, what I like to do is listen for a neat attribute within the track I am about to mix in from deck B - for example - maybe it has a neat high hat layer. I want to mix in just the hi's first. So with the beats confidently matched, I kill the bass and mids on deck B, and move the fader over so just the neat high hats come through - nothing else. Then I start to ever so gradually fade in the mids. Only then can I tell if drifting has been occurring during the fading of the hi's but at this point it is too late because the drifting begins to play thru the PA. Lastly, I will throw the bass all the way up on deck B at just the right moment and kill the bass on deck A.

This method of mixing sounds excellent when I can count on the records not drifting at all. However, other records drift no matter how well you beat match them and since I have killed the bass and mids (in this particular example), I do not have any way to tell if drifting has been occurring while I was fading in the hi's (as the monitor also has the mid's and lo's killed). I've found that drifting between the two tracks in the hi's has a bit more wiggle room than drifting that occurs with the kick drum. When I slam the bass from deck B into the mix I often find that the tracks are slightly off in just the time it took me to fade in the hi's and mid's. Maybe not noticeable over a loud PA system, but definitely on my recordings (to the trained ear).

So - my question is - is there any way to monitor the track in deck B even though I've "killed" certain frequencies? I really enjoy this style of mixing so I'd prefer not to have to fade in all three frequency ranges at the same time - it just sounds way too... blah. Or is there a better way to mix the frequencies in one by one and I just haven't thought of it yet? Do I need to quit using the bass-drum as my beatmatching guide? Or do I need a new mixer that has a feature to counter this??

I've tried to be as clear as I can about this question - but I know I'm not the best communicator - so if you need clarification just let me know. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Alex E]

Well step one is telling what you use to mix. Equipment, in other words.

[Sjagga]

Step two is explaining what you mean for mentally less-gifted people. I am slightly strunk and i can't understand a word you're saying

[atlien]

I'm using the new Numark iDJ2. Yeah yeah, i know it's an MP3 mixer, but it still has all the basic functions of a decent mixer (minus effects).

[atlien]

Ok - so here is the problem:

How can I monitor for drifting between the track that's playing and the track that I'm bringing in if I have certain frequencies killed on the track I'm bringing in?

The reason I have certain frequencies killed is because I like to bring in each new track to the mix uniquely, depending on what parts of the song stand out.

Is this making any sense?

[Shianna DJ]

I've tried to be as clear as I can about this question - but I know I'm not the best communicator - so if you need clarification just let me know. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Can you record a few transitions,maybe 1min. after the transition, the fade in, the transition and the fade out of the transition and then explain what you want to do

[Dartflare]

Ok - so here is the problem:

How can I monitor for drifting between the track that's playing and the track that I'm bringing in if I have certain frequencies killed on the track I'm bringing in?

The reason I have certain frequencies killed is because I like to bring in each new track to the mix uniquely, depending on what parts of the song stand out.

Is this making any sense?

have u ever heard about headphones?

if its drifting u didnt beatmatch perfectly... What I recomend? Practice, practice, practice and than practice a bit more... U have to "train" your ears to get used to identify when the songs are matched (and when they arent)...

To see if the beatmatch is perfect u just have to listen 1~3 bars (some people listen for all the 32 beats of a full scene... but that isnt necessarie and takes a precious time...) but the dificult depends on the original speed difference between the 2 tracks... than after u pitched the tracks... than re-do the process of beatmatching to see if now is perfectly matched thats only one of the methods u can use (certaly in one point of ur career ur going to develop ur own method)...

One tip (I guess its a good one but I dont know if Im able to explain it for u)...
as ur using digital media after u pitched both tracks... u can easily see on display when the beat starts (where u going to cue the ... on trance usually is close to the 64th beat but can variate to the 32th on short intros or 128th for the longest intros... anyway depends on the track) than u memorize on ur head the time that already elapsed... and than u do a little math and when the track A is remaining the time needed to the tonic beat (1st beat) of the track B u release the track B (in practice u dont even need to do anything to pass from one to the other track... but... u can "play" with the songs in that time as u wish to...
For Vinyl users thats easier... for releasing the track B... just have to do the same... and on the time to "release" B vinyl... do a baby-scratch or something and ur going to be perfectly matched

Hope it was usefull (and not much confuse... later I try to explain it better)

Cheers!

[atlien]

have u ever heard about headphones?

if its drifting u didnt beatmatch perfectly... What I recomend? Practice, practice, practice and than practice a bit more... U have to "train" your ears to get used to identify when the songs are matched (and when they arent)...

To see if the beatmatch is perfect u just have to listen 1~3 bars (some people listen for all the 32 beats of a full scene... but that isnt necessarie and takes a precious time...) but the dificult depends on the original speed difference between the 2 tracks... than after u pitched the tracks... than re-do the process of beatmatching to see if now is perfectly matched thats only one of the methods u can use (certaly in one point of ur career ur going to develop ur own method)...

thanks for all your input, Dartflare. looks like we are into the same type of music - euphoric, uplifting and melodic trance... my favs!!

in any case, you mentioned that the beats will not drift if they are perfectly matched. i have read many things contrary to this. i don't like to use beat counters, but just for example - if you have a track that is 135.003 BPM and another that you've cued up and you think you've got a good lock on the beatmatching, as you've dialed it in to about 135.023 using your ear, they will beat together for a while but still eventually drift! Unless your precision is ridiculously accurate, I don't see how to avoid a little drifting.

drifting is easily fixed, with a quick pitch adjustment or a touch of the jog wheel. but let's imagine you've got both mid's and lo's killed on the incoming track - how would you know if drifting is taking place? sometimes I take an entire minute just to mix in my hi's, and by the time i start raising the volume on the mid's and lo's, it's too late - the songs have drifted slightly apart. nothing major, but slight enough to be an annoyance to my discerning ear.

i just wish there was a way to know for a fact that the song I'm mixing in, despite having certain frequencies killed, is still precisely in line with the song that's playing. and thereinlies the dilemma. you can't monitor something that is killed. is this making ANY sense to anyone or am i just losing it?

i really feel like i'm doing a poor job of communicating my question. i guess a lot of has to do with the fact that this is new to me and maybe i don't have the right jargon down yet.

[Shianna DJ]

i really feel like i'm doing a poor job of communicating my question. i guess a lot of has to do with the fact that this is new to me and maybe i don't have the right jargon down yet.

That's me again, I think that if You don't record some transitions, or a short set, like 25 min, we don't be able to get your point, I'm telling you that, because in my particular case, I learn to DJ by myself, and every DJ has his/her own way to DJ, of curse he have some Knowledge in common, but style is very different.

[jst2gd]

in all reality it is the highs you should be listening to to beatmatch. Iv said in another thread (i think it was the beat way to mix a song??? i dunno) that the highs are a shorter waveform compared to the kicks. This means that if you beatmatch the highs, the rest will fall into place. How long have you been learning for? The best way to learn to beatmatch effectively is to try mixing the same song on each deck into eachother.

Do you know about the 4 to the floor structure of Electronic Dance music??? cueing, playing, mixing and cutting on the 32 and 64beats in each song?

If your really having problems, what you can do is have the cue song playing in the headphones and since u have mids and bass killed you can turning the headphone volume up louder so you can hear those highs. A song will also sound like its going faster if the bass is killed too btw, even though its not. All you can do from there is 'learn' ( i say that because beatmatching is just something you wake up one day and understand, its not really a gradual thing) to see if the highs line up.


Maybe your style of mixing isnt the most effective way of mixing? im not sure, everyone says experiement, but im gona put my foot down and say there are only so many ways you can mix and have it sound appealing to the ear.

My best advice is learn the techniques everyone uses first. Once you have the basics down (and to be fair most people are not truely good at DJing until at least a year of solid practise) then you can afford to experiment and have fun.

My most recent mix is a whole level above a mix i did around 3months ago...

[Dartflare]

thanks for all your input, Dartflare. looks like we are into the same type of music - euphoric, uplifting and melodic trance... my favs!!

in any case, you mentioned that the beats will not drift if they are perfectly matched. i have read many things contrary to this. i don't like to use beat counters, but just for example - if you have a track that is 135.003 BPM and another that you've cued up and you think you've got a good lock on the beatmatching, as you've dialed it in to about 135.023 using your ear, they will beat together for a while but still eventually drift! Unless your precision is ridiculously accurate, I don't see how to avoid a little drifting.

drifting is easily fixed, with a quick pitch adjustment or a touch of the jog wheel. but let's imagine you've got both mid's and lo's killed on the incoming track - how would you know if drifting is taking place? sometimes I take an entire minute just to mix in my hi's, and by the time i start raising the volume on the mid's and lo's, it's too late - the songs have drifted slightly apart. nothing major, but slight enough to be an annoyance to my discerning ear.

i just wish there was a way to know for a fact that the song I'm mixing in, despite having certain frequencies killed, is still precisely in line with the song that's playing. and thereinlies the dilemma. you can't monitor something that is killed. is this making ANY sense to anyone or am i just losing it?

i really feel like i'm doing a poor job of communicating my question. i guess a lot of has to do with the fact that this is new to me and maybe i don't have the right jargon down yet.

Yeah I know what u mean... mainly cause I'm a turntable addict lol... and as its an analogic sort of media (even using serato)... u have to correct it constantly...
Thats why I told u to listen for a while to see if isnt drifting... sure in some point it is going to... but U can match it to the perfection... I dont know how is ur mixing style but... if ur one of those guys that like to put together 2 tracks and one 3rd for "playing" well u have to good options... improve ur skill so u can correct them constantly (with turntables is easy cause u can just speed up or break by touching or "pushing" the decks...) on cd is a bit more complicated cause the jog is sensible to the movements and we cant forget that ur using a digital media (wav, mp3, etc...) or u can previewsly ajust the bpm of ur tunes and "flat" it by using Ableton live for example... so all ur tunes will be on the very same BMP... than u rip the cds... and u just have to leave the pitch on neutral position (0)...
Id prefer the first option... but I dont know its all up to u....
But if ur like me that like to do something just when there are only 2 or 3 minutes remaining... well just try to beatmatch it the most perfectly u can... so even if it drifts... probable it its going to happen after u already changed the track (and well... u shouldnt wait til its perceptible ) u should adjust it...
and well if its is all screwed up and there is nothing left to do... and the tune is about to end (the worst scenario) well... just do one backspin with a bit of echo or delay of 3/4 maybe and change the tune in that meanwhile lol

That isn't a good solution... but is better than desappoint ur crowd

Do you know about the 4 to the floor structure of Electronic Dance music??? cueing, playing, mixing and cutting on the 32 and 64beats in each song?

Actually just have to know that one bar is a group of 8 beats... the group of 4 bars os called scene (32beats)
its commun to use only half bar (4 beats)... cause it isnt really necessarie to listen to all the 8 beats...
and with that structure... its easy to produce and djing
Trances usually have "revolutions" (introduction of element) started with an uplift or something like so knowing that is easy for mixing...
For example is Paul van Dyk ft. Jessica Sutta - White Lies (Dave Spoon Vocal Mix) the structure is based one 64beats... the 1st "revolution"... happens at 64beats (2 scenes)... and all the tune is based on that structure... but thre is one exception cause after 160 beats (5 scenes, 128+32 beats) starts the vocal... so with that structure in mind u can preview ur mix and plan when ur going to introduce the second track and fade out the first one... Once again... that not a rule (as u could see in the example that have one exception)...

Cheers!

[atlien]

Thanks for your suggestions everyone.

I think the main problem here was that I have a vast library of songs (mainly from Beatport) and certain ones cause problems when mixing because they have a BPM that varies. For example, a track may be 135.04 BPM in the beginning, and then 136.25 towards the middle and end. This is hell when you are mixing and you've got two tracks beatmatched, and then much to your disdain they begin to drift due to one of the tracks changing tempo on you.

So after some more research I found a solution to my problem. I recently downloaded Ableton Live, which has an extremely useful Warp feature. I have run my tracks that have variable BPM's through Ableton's warp, ensuring that they stick to a regular BPM. I re-recorded my problem tracks. This now guarantees that when I am mixing in a track and can't hear it in the monitor (due to having certain frequencies killed) that I can count on it not to drift. Ableton is amazing!! I'm so glad I am learning about it now. If anyone else runs into this issue, consider trying this as a solution.

Happy New Year everyone, and in Trance we trust!

[atlien]

in all reality it is the highs you should be listening to to beatmatch. Iv said in another thread (i think it was the beat way to mix a song??? i dunno) that the highs are a shorter waveform compared to the kicks. This means that if you beatmatch the highs, the rest will fall into place. How long have you been learning for? The best way to learn to beatmatch effectively is to try mixing the same song on each deck into eachother.

I really like this idea of beatmatching on the highs. I do this occasionally and am getting better at it.

Do you know about the 4 to the floor structure of Electronic Dance music??? cueing, playing, mixing and cutting on the 32 and 64beats in each song?

Absolutely. If you don't know about this then your sets will be off - no matter how good and seamless the mixing is.

If your really having problems, what you can do is have the cue song playing in the headphones and since u have mids and bass killed you can turning the headphone volume up louder so you can hear those highs. A song will also sound like its going faster if the bass is killed too btw, even though its not. All you can do from there is 'learn' ( i say that because beatmatching is just something you wake up one day and understand, its not really a gradual thing) to see if the highs line up.

Thanks for the tip.

[Dartflare]

Thanks for your suggestions everyone.

I think the main problem here was that I have a vast library of songs (mainly from Beatport) and certain ones cause problems when mixing because they have a BPM that varies. For example, a track may be 135.04 BPM in the beginning, and then 136.25 towards the middle and end. This is hell when you are mixing and you've got two tracks beatmatched, and then much to your disdain they begin to drift due to one of the tracks changing tempo on you.

So after some more research I found a solution to my problem. I recently downloaded Ableton Live, which has an extremely useful Warp feature. I have run my tracks that have variable BPM's through Ableton's warp, ensuring that they stick to a regular BPM. I re-recorded my problem tracks. This now guarantees that when I am mixing in a track and can't hear it in the monitor (due to having certain frequencies killed) that I can count on it not to drift. Ableton is amazing!! I'm so glad I am learning about it now. If anyone else runs into this issue, consider trying this as a solution.

Happy New Year everyone, and in Trance we trust!

I mentioned the Warping but didnt say the name cause I thought u were a Live user already...

or u can previewsly ajust the bpm of ur tunes and "flat" it by using Ableton live for example... so all ur tunes will be on the very same BMP... than u rip the cds... and u just have to leave the pitch on neutral position (0)...

About the variated BPM... thats pretty comun so u have to keep on adjusting tunes constantly... in a first moment it looks a bit confuse... cause u have to do a lot of things @ the sametime... and when u see u have only 1 minute remaining to change the track... but with practice ur going to do that automaticaly dont even having to think and listen to... too much...
I don't know how used to ur ears are... but a good way to practice... is listening for 2 tunes un-sync and than perfectly matched... so like that u learn how to notice when they start to drift really really fast...

Cheers!