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Thread: Why are Trance tracks getting so short?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daysleeper View Post
    Nope. Listen again.
    Ive heard it around 20x times thanks. I just call that a riff. And the length and progression is perfect on it...thats why its regarded as a classic. Jesus, i thought you guys knew your Trance on here.

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  3. #32
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    I AM THE TRANCEMASTER. IM THE RULER OF TRANCE.

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    To be honest, I always skip the first 5 minutes or so of Café del Mar...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdelayna View Post
    Cos you cant have a proper journey under 7 minutes - unless you want each element to come in every 10 seconds.
    A musical journey isn't equivalent to song lenght. Thats ridiculous. To press on about trance needs to be 10-11 min to be a journey feels like real trance snobbery. Very cliche imo. With that said I don't support tracks under 6.30-7.00 min, if its not a special case. Its all relative anyways. Music is about content.
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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daysleeper View Post
    A musical journey isn't equivalent to song lenght. Thats ridiculous. To press on about trance needs to be 10-11 min to be a journey feels like real trance snobbery. Very cliche imo. With that said I don't support tracks under 6.30-7.00 min, if its not a special case. Its all relative anyways. Music is about content.
    I havnt mentioned 10+ minute tracks - only certain producers can pull that off, like Laurent with the Planisphere stuff.

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    Just sayin.
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  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdelayna View Post
    classic tracks like Xpander,Saltwater and Cafe del Mar wouldnt exist if people thought like that. Imo you need more time than that for proper progression and the complexities of Trance.
    You might be right, but this will be a matter of taste in the end.

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    Amazingly back when 9+ tracks were being released you would listen to them and feel like only few minutes has passed. that 15+ Planishphere track 'O' is a great example... it doesn't feel like 15!

    For me tracks don't have to be long or short to be good, but no doubt we are seeing lengthy track less and less and more shortened tracks in the scene and that to me is a shame - it allows artists to delve into a song and express so much more. For today If I see a trance track under 6 minutes...usually It's not very good.

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    I've been thinking about this too in the past.

    For example 10 years ago, ASOT contained about 20 tracks per episode. Nowadays those episodes contain constantly over 30 tracks.

    There are probably many reasons that this is happening. My opinions & guesses:

    1) In theory, it's faster to produce a short track than a lengthy track (assuming you put equal amount of sounds into the tracks). Because in these days where your tracks "shelf life" is short, your track is played at most a couple of times & then forgotten in a month (or faster?), produces might be pushed to make shorter tracks in order to stay relevant & be in the spotlight. And because of this, why would a producer spend more time on one track when he/she can make two tracks within the same time period?

    2) DJ:s can promote more tracks in a radio episode. In the past, when radio shows were structured similar to DJ sets played in clubs, nowadays radio shows feel more like advertisement. If a radio show DJ also owns a label, there's an incentive to push more names under their label catalogue to the people via their radio show. For live mixing, on the downside, with shorter tracks, you need to do more mixing work when you're doing a set (althought not a problem with the available tech), but as an upside, you also look more like you're doing something when playing a set.

    3) Increasing the price of your product. Releasing a shorter track, but keeping the price same will indirectly increase it's price. In this case, a consumer gets less seconds per currency when buying a shorter track. Shorter track means that the producer spent less time making it, thus gaining more value out of it. Also, when currencies values have gone down the past years & less people buying tracks, you can't really increase the price, as it would lead to even less people buying your tracks. This thinking only applies to bought tracks, not to streaming revenues, unless streaming revenue is payed per plays & not per seconds listened (no clue).

    4) Gaining listener's attention quicker & attracting younger audience. If your track really gets going after 2 minute mark, most of nowadays listeners have already switched to another track.

    5) EDM:s influence. Most EDM-tracks are very short (3-5 minutes), EDM DJ:s play banger after banger & the style attracts & is liked by a big number of people. So it's not a surprise that trance would copy aspect of that genre, like it has copied things from past successful genres & producers.

    It's unfortunate that when you cut parts of a trance track in order to queeze it into a shorter format, you can't cut the mixing parts, so most of the time you cut the parts where your track would have a slower or smoother progress.

    Track length is a weird thing to try to optimize, because for me if a track is good, it doesn't matter if its 4 or 12 min length, I will always enjoy the full length of it.
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    I love it how "O" is mentioned in every 2nd post as a perfect extreme example of how even the lengthiest of trance tracks can be amazing, regardless of their length. I always listen to it when I see someone mention it.

    And you're right. It doesn't feel like 15 minutes. It doesn't feel like minutes. And that's what a trance track should do.
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    I like longer tracks. Short ones seems to rushed.
    Old Skool Trance FTW!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by vermont-cade View Post
    I've been thinking about this too in the past.

    For example 10 years ago, ASOT contained about 20 tracks per episode. Nowadays those episodes contain constantly over 30 tracks.

    There are probably many reasons that this is happening. My opinions & guesses:

    1) In theory, it's faster to produce a short track than a lengthy track (assuming you put equal amount of sounds into the tracks). Because in these days where your tracks "shelf life" is short, your track is played at most a couple of times & then forgotten in a month (or faster?), produces might be pushed to make shorter tracks in order to stay relevant & be in the spotlight. And because of this, why would a producer spend more time on one track when he/she can make two tracks within the same time period?

    2) DJ:s can promote more tracks in a radio episode. In the past, when radio shows were structured similar to DJ sets played in clubs, nowadays radio shows feel more like advertisement. If a radio show DJ also owns a label, there's an incentive to push more names under their label catalogue to the people via their radio show. For live mixing, on the downside, with shorter tracks, you need to do more mixing work when you're doing a set (althought not a problem with the available tech), but as an upside, you also look more like you're doing something when playing a set.

    3) Increasing the price of your product. Releasing a shorter track, but keeping the price same will indirectly increase it's price. In this case, a consumer gets less seconds per currency when buying a shorter track. Shorter track means that the producer spent less time making it, thus gaining more value out of it. Also, when currencies values have gone down the past years & less people buying tracks, you can't really increase the price, as it would lead to even less people buying your tracks. This thinking only applies to bought tracks, not to streaming revenues, unless streaming revenue is payed per plays & not per seconds listened (no clue).

    4) Gaining listener's attention quicker & attracting younger audience. If your track really gets going after 2 minute mark, most of nowadays listeners have already switched to another track.

    5) EDM:s influence. Most EDM-tracks are very short (3-5 minutes), EDM DJ:s play banger after banger & the style attracts & is liked by a big number of people. So it's not a surprise that trance would copy aspect of that genre, like it has copied things from past successful genres & producers.

    It's unfortunate that when you cut parts of a trance track in order to queeze it into a shorter format, you can't cut the mixing parts, so most of the time you cut the parts where your track would have a slower or smoother progress.

    Track length is a weird thing to try to optimize, because for me if a track is good, it doesn't matter if its 4 or 12 min length, I will always enjoy the full length of it.
    THIS!!!!

    Almost agree on everything you've said!
    1) It's a consumer society today. 95% of the people listen to a track once at best twice than forget it. Why producing one long track instead of 2 shorts?
    2) My point exactly, couldn't have said it better than you --> it's just a business
    3) Not really agreeing here: a short track can take ages and a lot of effort to be produced
    4) The today's average listener wants the cool things in a track to come after 30 sec, otherwise he will swith to another. It joins point number 1 as well. Look at the statistics on any single track on youtube. Audience retention goes down to a mere 20% after the first minute
    5) True as well

    Conclusion for me: it's because trance has become mainstream, because of the f*cking consumer society and because today's listeners are influenced by all sort of crappy stuff.

    I'm trying to go back to underground stuff as much as I can.

    cheers and thanks for the great topic!








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    An this is another take from another perspective. Mark Sherry's message to promoters, who more and more book tons of DJs for shorter and shorter sets.

    A message to promoters:

    When you constantly book DJ's for short 1 hour sets at your events, not only are you taking away from clubbers what they really want to see/hear when their favourite DJ's are playing, but in turn you're actually re-programming the way clubbers think..and it's not good, it's not good at all. Let me explain..

    When I get booked to play for an hour at a big event I have to edit most of my tracks down to 4 or 5 minute short edits, which means that you end up editing away a lot of the 'beats' sections. You try and get to the breakdown as quickly as possible, then you cut the track as quickly as you can after the main break and drop have been and gone..this gives you an hour of very short and usually crap sounding edits that will go something like 'breakdown, drop, breakdown, drop..' etc etc etc. What are you meant to dance to if there aren't as many beat sections in sets anymore? How are you meant to build a set? How can you create an amazing and electric atmosphere on the dancefloor anymore?..and I mean an ELECTRIC atmosphere, where people are literally climbing the walls and sweat is dripping down from the ceiling! This is how the horrendous 'drop culture' spawned from the EDM scene! You are programming clubbers to crave drops instead of beats, they expect things to happen much faster, they lose interest after 3 or 4 mins. They are spoiled, but this isn't their fault, at all..it's YOU the promoter's fault for your 'maxed out' DJ lineups, crazily short DJ set lengths and extremely cramped timetables!

    Please take things back to the old school. Give DJ's extended sets again, let things breathe again. Instead of putting 10 DJ's on your lineups, try putting 3 DJ's on but give them 3 hours each to play instead of 1 hour, or even book 5 DJ's to play for 2 hours each. This is what clubbers really want in my opinion. This is what DJ's really want. This is what I want!

    Last weekend I was so impressed with the Monkey BuzinezZ pres 'Trance Unity' event in Montreal that was organised by my good friend Ramy Bargz and the CIRCUS Afterhours team! There were 15 hours of non stop extended sets from DJ's across 3 rooms and the atmosphere was off the scale! It's one of the most enjoyable DJ sets that I've ever played and it felt like a rave straight out of the 90's. The clubbers danced all night and you could really feel the atmosphere building and building with the music..no short edits in sight! I really hope other promoters follow suit and are inspired by this event to try something similar. I hope that we see the back of these 1 hour DJ set event templates that most promoters seem to be doing these days!

    Anyhoo, I've said my peace..

    M ��

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  21. #44
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    For me the length of track has never really been an issue, Sherrys topic is spot on though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tep View Post
    For me the length of track has never really been an issue
    Not until now - the good short tracks couldve been even better if they were longer and built-up properly.

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