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Thread: Producers selling their production templates

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    Producers selling their production templates

    Interesting discussion taken from Mr. Magdelayna's fb page today

    https://www.facebook.com/magdelayna/...56792272689546

    Is it throwing away your identity as an artist? Cashing in on new producers? 'Helping' up & coming producers? Why would you want someone else sound exactly like you?

    Would be good to hear from other producers on here about it...

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    I agree with everything Magda said wholeheartedly.
    Where is the music in todays "trance"?

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    I have a hard time understanding this....

    To quote FB and magdelayna:
    I spent years on Logic on my own in my bedroom trying to create a unique sound..but hey,maybe i shouldve just bought mr. cookie cutter's template instead.
    Well, yes, maybe he should. Then he could have analysed it and applied learned techniques to ease his own productions. Maybe he woudn't take 10 years then, but just 2. This is the same debate as "of using loops". Do what you can with whatever you can get your hands on to try to sound exceptional. The only rule that REALLY matters.

    I mean, project templates are treasure troves of knowledge.
    There can be a lot to be learned in terms of pure technique. EQs, Reverbs. Compressors. How a proper channel staging can be set up. General levels.

    To deny them because some kid might copy the whole thing is just thinking small. Maybe that kid will do something on his own down the line and do great things.

    Of course some copycat tunes inevitably come out of such templates but alas....
    What is really wrong here is labels signing that same sounding crap over and over again with zero room for unique stuff, out of the box thinking, minor deviations in form and next to zero a&r guidance. I'm sorry, I mean fans wanting that crap and labels listening to the vocal minority.

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    It's tricky. I get what Reconceal is saying, but at the same time there's already too much pointless dull music that's technically decent, people using templates will only multiply the amount.

    I have no problem with people learning how to produce quickly using tutorials templates presets and whatnot (I guess I'm a little bitter, but mostly I'm fine with it), but the problem is that their musical ideas, vision and talent can't catch up their quickly learned technical skills, which results them putting out generic & boring stuff that the labels will gladly release since the sound quality and sounds fit the standards.

    The fact that this scene is now 99,9% producers and 0,01% just listeners is so bizarre that you can't help but to laugh at it. Nobody is buying any music, nobody gives a fuck about new trance in spotify or youtube. And at the same time a tutorial on how to make trance gets million views, preset, sample packs and templates are bought way more than the actual songs by the same artists. A producer's target audience is no longer the listener, but an aspiring amateur producer.

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    Reconceal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by point View Post
    technically decent, generic & boring stuff that the labels will gladly release since the sound quality and sounds fit the standards.
    Here, I fixed to showcase the problem
    The audience indeed are not the listeners anymore, but self appointed "experts", aspiring producers and the vocal minority, the "Elite"
    I'm not even sure what true listeners want anymore(apart of psytrance, maybe), because those that are speaking out are waaay to
    contaminated with nostalgia and they own grandeur.

    Anyway, the original sin is still, labels listening and giving voice to vocal minority instead of taking a risk and/or work hard to try and reaching the "real" audience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reconceal View Post
    I have a hard time understanding this....

    To quote FB and magdelayna:


    Well, yes, maybe he should. Then he could have analysed it and applied learned techniques to ease his own productions. Maybe he woudn't take 10 years then, but just 2. This is the same debate as "of using loops". Do what you can with whatever you can get your hands on to try to sound exceptional. The only rule that REALLY matters.

    I mean, project templates are treasure troves of knowledge.
    There can be a lot to be learned in terms of pure technique. EQs, Reverbs. Compressors. How a proper channel staging can be set up. General levels.

    To deny them because some kid might copy the whole thing is just thinking small. Maybe that kid will do something on his own down the line and do great things.

    Of course some copycat tunes inevitably come out of such templates but alas....
    What is really wrong here is labels signing that same sounding crap over and over again with zero room for unique stuff, out of the box thinking, minor deviations in form and next to zero a&r guidance. I'm sorry, I mean fans wanting that crap and labels listening to the vocal minority.
    I was probably being a bit OTT with the fb statement,it took me about 2 years on Logic to get tracks signed and played by big djs - but in proud i did it all by myself.
    But i dont think you understand my main point,if this was JUST about EQ and mastering,its totally fine. Its when a producer gives someone else their identity and sound i have an issue with. We are supposed to be 'artists' and have our own style are we not? Think of it as a painter and his portraits.

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    Yep, everyone's got a point here. It's how it is in these discussions, how it's always been.

    Generally, it becomes bad when they start getting misused; used for shortcuts rather than help and ideas. MIDI packs, templates, loops, plugin presets...it's all the same.

    But no one says you can't be creative with those! Use a synth preset but process it through various delays, phasers, reverbs, saturators... You can delay and reverb the hell out of a MIDI melody and get something totally fresh and unrecognizable. Same goes with percussion and cymbal loops. You can cut them, change pitch and tempo, phase, delay, reverb... Just take a look at this video of Airwave processing loops from HIS own loop/sample pack through Omnisphere 2 and its effects below.

    The problem becomes when people just open Sylenth1, go through the most common libraries, use 7 layers of 1 of 3 most usual bassline patterns because that's what the video said, make pads and the main melody that is 'up to standard' - sounds are - you guessed it - from Sylenth1 - then they use a couple of Vengeance loops and stick them there too, and do everything else they have been told by whoever from the usual tutorials, so their priority is mixing and mastering rather than music. That's producing for them, that's what it's all about.

    For them, if you know how to mix and master, you're a music producer, you can send your demos to Armin and his labels, hope for ASOT and bookings.

    Musical ideas, creativity and uniqueness are hard to come by in trance nowadays. But this is not an only thing to blame. Templates and loop/MIDI/preset packs are like nuclear science. You can use it to make electricity, or to kill thousands. Your choice.

    And for producers that sell their own templates - I have nothing against them. If you're a musician and want to have food on your table, you have a way to earn money for either living, new plugins or hardware, you have a platform and a target audience for your product - why not use that? Essentially, if you're a musician, nowadays that means you have to be a sort of an entrepreneur. It's just the way it is. Your main product doesn't sell - you're not making profit - you make another product or a side-product derived from the main one - you sell it. Or you get a proper day job, which only takes up your precious time and drains your energy.

    It IS kinda selling the individuality of the artist, that I agree on. But sampling has undoubtedly been a part of music. Who of us here didn't want to sound like Armin or Ferry or whoever else? Who of us here didn't try that? These two certainly haven't published sample packs yet it hasn't stopped people from copying their sound. Today's technology made selling sample/whatever packs possible. It would have been done before if it was doable. But you had to buy the exact guitar a guy from The Beatles had or whatever else. In the end, it's all user's fault.

    It's so weird that people rarely put themselves in someone else's position and immediately assume it's their fault with whatever bad is happening.

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    Its just the principle of it all im against..im surprised some producers have said theyre fine with it. Ive always really admired certain producers own sound and indiviuality throughout the years.

    Back in the day,you instantly knew a Ferry,Dumonde,Lange,Matt Darey track coming in on a set - i loved that.

    Nowadays how many producers can you tell its them straight away? Its all a huge generic cloud of default.

    People confuse the word Generic with a producers own sound...people said Solarstone's Pure stuff was generic but it wasnt imo...it was his own sound and you recognised it instantly. Its not something someone can go out and copy easily,which should be the case anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reconceal View Post
    I'm not even sure what true listeners want anymore(apart of psytrance, maybe), because those that are speaking out are waaay to
    contaminated with nostalgia and they own grandeur.
    Producers themselfes dont even know what they want the track to be (except getting it signed and played by armin etc), hence why Ive stated over and over about the no charachter/identity/consistency in artists/producers material. If you browse through the names thats relevant today its a big mess of what they release and how it sounds. Theres absolutely no quality control or consistency in their discography's.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magdelayna View Post
    People confuse the word Generic with a producers own sound...people said Solarstone's Pure stuff was generic but it wasnt imo...it was his own sound and you recognised it instantly. Its not something someone can go out and copy easily,which should be the case anyway.
    That doesnt mean one cant rule out the other and vice verse. Using your own sound isnt the only thing that determines if a tracks is generic or not.
    Where is the music in todays "trance"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daysleeper View Post




    That doesnt mean one cant rule out the other and vice verse. Using your own sound isnt the only thing that determines if a tracks is generic or not.
    Yeah,structure and placment can come into it aswell,but if a producer has his own sound you recognise instantly,you cant call that generic - as its the unique sound 'they' created. Theres only a handful of producers this applies to in the history of Trance though imo.

    e.g. Ferry,Darey,Lange,Dumonde,The Thrillseekers,Picotto,Darren Tate,PvD,Signum,Push,Airwave,Nu-NRG,Chicane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gagi View Post
    And for producers that sell their own templates - I have nothing against them. If you're a musician and want to have food on your table, you have a way to earn money for either living
    Utter rubbish - sell your soul for a happy meal.

    If they really wanted to 'help' the new producers out,then they should just give away their templates free - they dont need to be that cheeky and desperate to ask for money for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdelayna View Post
    Utter rubbish - sell your soul for a happy meal.

    If they really wanted to 'help' the new producers out,then they should just give away their templates free - they dont need to be that cheeky and desperate to ask for money for them.
    Did you read any of the other paragraphs I've written or have you mistaken me for someone else? I certainly didn't say they wanted to help anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gagi View Post
    Did you read any of the other paragraphs I've written or have you mistaken me for someone else? I certainly didn't say they wanted to help anyone.
    But thats what they make out the reason theyre doing it for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magdelayna View Post
    But thats what they make out the reason theyre doing it for.
    Well, if you wanted to sell a product, would you say: "Buy it, I need money and I wanna be rich", or: "Buy it, I need the money to feed my family and pay my bills", or something along those lines? No.

    Pretty sure I haven't seen a producer say: "Buy this template, I wanna help you" either. I think you got it wrong. They aren't saying they want to help us, we are saying it helps us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gagi View Post
    Pretty sure I haven't seen a producer say: "Buy this template, I wanna help you" either. I think you got it wrong. They aren't saying they want to help us, we are saying it helps us.
    That's a shame. Lots of potential there.

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