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Thread: [OUT] JOOF EDITIONS - VOL.5 (John 00 Fleming, Gai Barone, Paul Thomas, Tim Penner) [JOOF RECORDINGS]

  1. #31
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    [quote = Magdelayna; 1785805] What a stupid question that is. [/ quote]

    No question is stupid mate. Your answer is a true point, but I remember you also being negative of the trackselection (non-trance) the radioshow ASOT( and brand) has become. If you read that interview by John with danceastronauts, it was more negative about that kind of big brands (trance).
    I wish everybody the best, on topic: Joof Recordings is doing great things for the trance scene for years now. Additionally:

    John 00 Fleming
    ·


    Let’s have an open talk about Trance & Progressive Trance.
    The great thing about social media, I have you as friends that I can have an honest chat to get your perspective on my thoughts.
    Before we start, usually any form of conversation about Trance can quickly derail into trash talking, we don’t want this. We’re looking for a clear solution and keeping things on topic will help find the answer, derailments don’t.
    This has been one of the most difficult blogs to write so please excuse if I jump around topics (been trying to write this for a year now!).

    Something has been bothering many of us for a while, we feel we’ve become genre homeless. Love or love genres they won’t go anywhere, humans need to put things in a box for a starting point.
    When it comes to Trance, there’s a lot of confusion, the easiest way to sum this up:
    To the older generation:
    Progressive today = Trance as they remember from the past.

    To the new generation today:
    Trance = powerful euphoric anthems.

    I’ll also forever use this example: if some of the most iconic Trance tracks from the past that shaped the genre such as ‘Cafe del Mar’ were released today, they would probably released under Progressive House.
    We have to face facts that music scenes evolve and specialist music stores/industry have addressed the genres by creating new main genres as these scenes have evolved. House and Techno have been around for a good 30 years + as they have evolved Beatport have addressed this by creating new main genres, House has 8 main genres, Techno has 6. Trance has been around almost the same amount of time, yet it only has two main genres, and Psy Trance has always been a completely different scene and culture.
    When we look at the shopfront of Beatport, my theory above, is also reflected in the Top 100 selling tracks of each genre. If you picture a 15 year discovering the electronic scene for the very first time, this is their education process.

    Trance has contributed so much to the electronic scene creating a mass cultural movement in the 90’s that took the mainstream corporations by surprise crossing over into mainstream radio/TV that influenced many of the the next generation to follow the path of electronic music that planted the seed for the mass growth in the electronic scene that followed. We still see today those Trance influences in the Techno and Progressive scenes the melodic parts of their music, they often play Trance classics in their sets, yet what frustrates me no mention of the ’T’ world. If anything Trance has become a dirty word to that world.
    But to me their nod to the Trance world shows how resilient the Trance genre is, people will always be hungry for beautiful melodies that in return attracts happy magical atmospheres, something the Trance community do this best, hence why people always head back to Trance. 30 years on Trance is still here, but I feel its growth is being hindered due to the genre issue that we can’t ignore. Currently all Trance is thrown into one single main genre pot, underground/Progressive 125 Bpm through to Euphoric 140 Bpm (and faster Tech etc). These are completely different scenes, cultures, environments, they do co exist but in different rooms, stages and events.

    There’s no hiding the fact there’s currently a massive Progressive/Melodic movement around the world and history is repeating itself, as before in the 90’s the Trance world have a more musical/powerful take on this, think back to HOOJ CHOONS, Platipus etc days. The main problem is where to place this music, it simply doesn’t sit alongside 140 Bpm euphoric Trance and has more in common with Progressive House, hence why many are releasing here as this music will find their target ‘specialist’ audience (think back to that 15 year kid education process). Yet in the process we’re diluting Progressive House, even worse new forward thinking artists and their music are not getting discovered when it’s released in Trance (or Beatport move them to Trance).
    I think we’re at that point we need a new stand alone ‘Progressive Trance’ genre to reflect the mass growth in this sound and the let it breathe and evolve. History is once again repeating itself, Progressive House/Techno and Progressive Trance always ran parallel with each other, we crossed over playing each others tracks, but Progressive Trance always tastefully added a little more fun, energy, and drive, the similar BPM’s and ethos making this crossover achievable. We saw the instant impact Beatport made when they cleaned EDM away from Progressive House that in return contributed to the growth in this scene. I know the same will happen to the Progressive Trance scene with its own stand alone platform, the whole music industry infrastructure will change to reflect this, new review sections in magazines along with the media taking interest in a new cultural movement. This movement is already upon us, Armin kindly investing and working with me on a Progressive stage at ASOT festival for example, its second year was massive and huge success.
    This is where I open up this discussion to you. Do you agree with me/us we need this stand alone Progressive Trance genre? I’ve already got a door open with Beatport to discuss this and if they see this response from you also, it helps my/our case.
    Over to you…..

    https://www.facebook.com/john00fleming/photos/a.427599245926/10155950810490927/?type=3&theater
    Last edited by Marco1979; 03-10-2019 at 00:21 AM.

  2. #32
    Magdelayna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco1979 View Post
    [quote = Magdelayna; 1785805] Wat een stomme vraag dat is. [/ quote]

    No question is stupid mate. Your answer is a true point, but I remember you also being negative of the trackselection (non-trance) the radioshow ASOT( and brand) has become. If you read that interview by John with danceastronauts, it was more negative about that kind of big brands (trance).
    I wish everybody the best, on topic: Joof Recordings is doing great things for the trancescene for years now.
    Yeah ive been negative of the radio show before,but that doesnt mean i dont realise how much hes done for the scene aswell. He appreciates the underground side aswell. And theres no way JOOF would ever say no to a slot on a ASOT show hehe. It may be a bit of contradiction with what hes said in the past - but its a no brainer career wise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contact View Post
    Uh...no. Both the Trance genre and Progressive house genre at beatport has been butchered to hell because hey, why not? But keep adding more sub-genres thinking that is going to fix the problem.
    Of course it is. I don't want to traul through endless BS releases to find the stuff I'm looking for. Hence why the Psy genre on Beatport really annoys me because all the Goa is thrown in there and incredibly difficult to find.

    Same with this kind of trance. It is progressive trance, simple as that and it should have its own genre.

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  6. #34
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    Some of the Techno & Tech House on BP wouldve been called Tech/Deep Trance in the early 2000's.

    Its because i reckon a lot of people think theres a stigma attached to the word 'trance' and think its much cooler to label it House.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen JOOF View Post
    I’m not going to waste anymore time on negative people like you, as you are the root problem.
    Whilst John and Armin (+ many others working dam hard like Solarstone, John Askew, Aly & Fila etc) are investing back into this wonderful Trance genre and making good ground building things, there will always be people like you, criticising from the sidelines.


    Either get involved helping, or try to stop being a keyboard warrior. Accept there will always be different flavours to the Trance genre.
    I have had to delete my responses because it's extremely difficult to make it understand what I am on about without sounding like a whiny/hormone crazy grandma cry baby which is what people think I am but I am only here to express my view point. I don't hate the artist or dislike the artist - If you think that is the case, you have all wrong.

    I am still open to fresh ideas regardless of whatever genre you want to label it. I know it's incredibly difficult to make something special out there and words of encourage does a lot, but if we want things to improve, the culture, let's focus more on the music first and getting it right before we start to worry about why the sales are so low.

    Vinyl sales and digital sales for techno these days are through the roof so there must be some success there. Maybe because Techno artist found their footing and got the formula right and are producing some of the best music I have ever heard in the techno scene ever.

    Infact, the people don't like to call it Trance because of how much of embarrassment the Trance scene has become and you teaming up ASOT sends off a mixed signal. I realize that your intention is to broaden your fanbase but the people you are targeting that go to these festivals hardly buy music.

    You also are targeting people that will be here once and then will move onto something else. Us hardcore fans LOVE Trance and have grown up with this beautiful music that has captured our hearts/imaginations and is helping us through the daily life's struggles. We want to support you, and again, I am very passionate about this music that I love a lot. I have changed a career for someone and I did all that for free. I do this because it's my life and blood.

    I also realize that you have to pay the bills and I don't have problems with that, and I hope your wife makes a full recovery, however, what made 2000 era different to now is that there was great music available, it was easily accessible and no one got screwed over. Neither the artist/the booking agent, the DJ or the event manager or the PR agent or didn't treat the fanbase as stupid people.

    The producer got success, the DJ got people attending gigs, the sales of cds where through the roof, and people had a great time with the music and we got so much beautiful music being made.

    Last edited by Contact; 03-15-2019 at 11:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seachy_001 View Post
    Of course it is. I don't want to traul through endless BS releases to find the stuff I'm looking for. Hence why the Psy genre on Beatport really annoys me because all the Goa is thrown in there and incredibly difficult to find.

    Same with this kind of trance. It is progressive trance, simple as that and it should have its own genre.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magdelayna View Post
    Yeah ive been negative of the radio show before,but that doesnt mean i dont realise how much hes done for the scene aswell. He appreciates the underground side aswell. And theres no way JOOF would ever say no to a slot on a ASOT show hehe. It may be a bit of contradiction with what hes said in the past - but its a no brainer career wise.
    The problem with creating a new genre is that it just adds to the confusion. You are just making things worse and creating a wider gap. If you want people to love this music that we call Trance, we can start by creating less confusion, less sub genres and creating more beautiful music instead. Creating a sub-genre just divides people and seems like a business choice rather than a music choice.
    Last edited by Contact; 03-15-2019 at 11:38 AM.

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    OUT NOW! (Beatport Exclusive for the moment)

    https://www.beatport.com/release/joo...-vol-5/2525428
    Graphic Designer from Bulgaria. Electronic lover.
    I've worked with some great DJ's.
    Portfolio here: www.dragomirbojkilov.com

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    I'm a huge Global Trance Grooves fan and I really like the new format of the radio show, and came here looking for some info on the new album. However, I've found John 00 Fleming really poor playing out, with a lot of people clearing the dance floor when he's playing his set. I don't understand why he doesn't play what he's known for. Anyway, lets see how it goes in Brum on the 6th.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fxdif View Post
    I'm a huge Global Trance Grooves fan and I really like the new format of the radio show, and came here looking for some info on the new album. However, I've found John 00 Fleming really poor playing out, with a lot of people clearing the dance floor when he's playing his set. I don't understand why he doesn't play what he's known for. Anyway, lets see how it goes in Brum on the 6th.
    As I'm subscribed to this thread and also manage all things JOOF, your comment above simply isn't true. If he kept clearing clubs, then those clubs wouldn't book him again would they? I'll also presume you haven't been touring the world with him to see these packed shows he's playing?
    John's career is currently the busiest I've ever seen it, he's in huge demand and we're constantly having to turn away gigs. What he's doing now is hitting a sweet spot with the next generation of both fans and clubs/festivals. This album is a new entry today in Beatport main top 10 chart, thats not a sign of failure as you're suggesting? You're expressing that he doesn't play to your own personal taste, and thats fine, but don't make sweeping comments saying he's a poor DJ because of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen JOOF View Post
    As I'm subscribed to this thread and also manage all things JOOF, your comment above simply isn't true. If he kept clearing clubs, then those clubs wouldn't book him again would they? I'll also presume you haven't been touring the world with him to see these packed shows he's playing?
    John's career is currently the busiest I've ever seen it, he's in huge demand and we're constantly having to turn away gigs. What he's doing now is hitting a sweet spot with the next generation of both fans and clubs/festivals. This album is a new entry today in Beatport main top 10 chart, thats not a sign of failure as you're suggesting? You're expressing that he doesn't play to your own personal taste, and thats fine, but don't make sweeping comments saying he's a poor DJ because of this.
    You need a lesson from Jordan Peterson. Being nice is all well and good when there is no reason to offend one another but when we have a problem that needs addressing, being nice to one another and pretending like a problem does not exist is not the way to problem solve. You are just sweeping a problem under the rug, hoping that no one else notices. You can call me names, whatever you want, but don't whinge and complaint why people don't buy this music. No one wants to buy the Trance made today because there is nothing special about it. It's not the fantasy world we all know. It doesn't take us anywhere, and it definitely doesn't tell a story.




    Last edited by Contact; 04-04-2019 at 11:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Contact View Post
    You need a lesson from Jordan Peterson. Being nice is all well and good when there is no reason to offend one another but when we have a problem that needs addressing, being nice to one another and pretending like a problem does not exist is not the way to problem solve. You are just sweeping a problem under the rug, hoping that no one else notices. You can call me names, whatever you want, but don't whinge and complaint why people don't buy this music. No one wants to buy the Trance made today because there is nothing special about it. It's not the fantasy world we all know. It doesn't take us anywhere, and it definitely doesn't tell a story.

    The Techno scene is way more Trancier than this so called ''trance' that you play.
    [videyoutube;VEOHQoh82bs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEOHQoh82bs]movie[/URL]

    [videyoutube;44pERGAaKHw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44pERGAaKHw]movie[/URL]
    Nobody cares about your opinion, mr. Progrez

    Stop complaining, start doing something to improve the state of scene.
    Owner of Forescape Digital Recordings.

    http://instagram.com/forescapedigitalrecordings


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    Quote Originally Posted by enlusion View Post
    Nobody cares about your opinion, mr. Progrez

    Stop complaining, start doing something to improve the state of scene.
    Uh huh...and you don't think I have been doing that? I post good stuff but when I try to go against the grain of this forum, people get easily offended because I spoke up against authority and questioned the notion that everything is fine. It was only when I rattled the cage that exposed the lies this scene was. Up to this point, most people thought I was insane to believe that the sales were low when they were told that everything is fine. The first way to tackle a problem is to accept that it exist. That's a really brave move and I was one of the few people recently that has questioned where this beautiful music of ours has steered into.

    I am out numbered but I still push on. People have labeled me as a keyboard warrior when that's a pretty hilarious title being given to me when all I am doing is that showing my love for this music that has helped me immensely, defending its rich history and culture and I am forever in debt with this music and will always be forever in debt. It SAVED me and has helped me overcome the tragic events in my life.

    Not my fault if DJs/promoters don't support great music. Maybe if they put aside the politics and just bring back the fun in music rather it being all serious business, then maybe the scene could change for the better but when you have people abandoning this beautiful music, what more can I do? More importantly, is it my fault that they are leaving?
    Last edited by Contact; 04-04-2019 at 12:17 PM.

  16. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Contact View Post
    Not my fault if DJs/promoters don't support great music. Maybe if they put aside the politics and just bring back the fun in music rather it being all serious business, then maybe the scene could change for the better but when you have people abandoning this beautiful music, what more can I do? More importantly, is it my fault that they are leaving?
    Agreed on ths, it's all about the festivalmusc these days. There is the money. On-topic gonna listen soon, joof compilations are always good.

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    Guys this went too far. Let's try to understand each other.

    Glen was offended, but you need to understand him. JOOF are working hard the make the label bigger, to expand. Of course they will feel offended when they hear negative comments. They need a lot of positive energy to follow the path they've taken. For example the sentence "a lot of people clearing the dance floor when he's playing his set"... Well, I wasn't on this party. Maybe it's true, who knows, but when you see that guys like Armin are inviting him to play and some others like Cattaneo do B2B with him, well.. I guess he is going things well, isn't it?

    JOOF is smoothly introducing new sounds and styles to the catalogue. Always Undeground, do not expect Big Room or some Trendy Pop Electronica, but start expecting more progressive and techy stuff, more deep elements, also some slower bmp productions. Trance will stay, that's for sure.

    I actually think, did someone tried to check the tracks from the Album? At least trying to hear the samples on Beatport? It's really decents stuff.
    Graphic Designer from Bulgaria. Electronic lover.
    I've worked with some great DJ's.
    Portfolio here: www.dragomirbojkilov.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by N7pSTR View Post
    Guys this went too far. Let's try to understand each other.

    Glen was offended, but you need to understand him. JOOF are working hard the make the label bigger, to expand. Of course they will feel offended when they hear negative comments. They need a lot of positive energy to follow the path they've taken. For example the sentence "a lot of people clearing the dance floor when he's playing his set"... Well, I wasn't on this party. Maybe it's true, who knows, but when you see that guys like Armin are inviting him to play and some others like Cattaneo do B2B with him, well.. I guess he is going things well, isn't it?

    JOOF is smoothly introducing new sounds and styles to the catalogue. Always Undeground, do not expect Big Room or some Trendy Pop Electronica, but start expecting more progressive and techy stuff, more deep elements, also some slower bmp productions. Trance will stay, that's for sure.

    I actually think, did someone tried to check the tracks from the Album? At least trying to hear the samples on Beatport? It's really decents stuff.
    Again, I have not personally attacked anyone just attacked their way of problem solving. I got attacked for helping raise a growing problem that is too obvious now to miss. We are all scientists and I think we have lost the ability to critically think for a solution to a growing problem. If we didn't question things, we would be still stuck in the dark ages where we thought that blood letting was a way to cure someone of their sickness or the fact that people were possessed by the devil when they suffered from a mental disorder.

    Creating more sub-genres is not a way to solve a problem. Maybe if we focused less on profits and more on having a good time, then maybe your bottom line could increase. Just maybe.

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