Conservative or liberal (politics)

SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2022
656 Posts
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Your .

As for merits in your argument:
Do I agree fundamentally with all the back doors and baseball bat practices he and Trump are taking? Nbut I will pick Result over Procedure 8 out of 10 times in this case and will, in terms of Ethics, definitely rank that below actively funding groups incentivising Terror, Arson and Vandalism against ordinary people (or companies) who have done nothing wrong. Which is not something you cannot say about, at the very least half of the audited USAiD practices for example.

Ends justify the means eh? I feel like I’ve heard this argument before and it rarely ends well. Why am I arguing with a right wing European anyway about domestic US politics? I need to get out of here again lol. You have no skin in my US democracy game mate.

And what you call an audit is a largely illegal slash and burn operation of agencies the oversight (DOGE) has no real understanding of. There’s a right way to do what they want to do - and we know the votes imply they have a mandate to do so - but this ain’t it. And it’s not really going after the type of $$$ they are trying to save. And it’s going to get dragged down in court by doing it the wrong way anyway. While destroying a lot of what is valuable in civil service.

As for the rest of your argument on Tesla vandalism vs. Trump and Co attempting to break the bedrock norms of my democracy, I find it laughable, no offense. Our democracy is on fire right now and the Admin intends to break it further.

Oh hey and remember the project 2025 which you claim Trump didn’t want to see implemented? If EOs are successful, 40% of its goals are already implemented!
 

Jetflag

Legendary Member
Jul 17, 2020
5,050 Posts
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Ends justify the means eh? I feel like I’ve heard this argument before and it rarely ends well. Why am I arguing with a right wing European anyway about domestic US politics? I need to get out of here again lol. You have no skin in my US democracy game mate.
You post laments and asks general questions on a public forum, and so ye shall recieve a public reply. 🙏

Also: as a rare right wing european: Us policies usually go on a direct fly over here to Europe within a year m8, For once i'm actually cool with it, the LP recently lauched their own version of Doge and they can have my money. The Hague is even worse then Washington.

And what you call an audit is a largely illegal slash and burn operation of agencies the oversight (DOGE) has no real understanding of. There’s a right way to do what they want to do - and we know the votes imply they have a mandate to do so - but this ain’t it. And it’s not really going after the type of $$$ they are trying to save. And it’s going to get dragged down in court by doing it the wrong way anyway. While destroying a lot of what is valuable in civil service.
Then what is "the right way", that isn't utterly ineffectual then @SaltAcidFatHeatAcid? come on? if you and you lot are gonna ad nauseum spout that argument then lets hear it. put your money where you mouth is.

What is "the right way" to actually get rid of demonstrable corruption that doesn't end up at the bottom of the bureaucracy pile that said corruption has infected, like all the times before? And are you ok with just letting it fester if "the right procedure" isn't applied?

As for the rest of your argument on Tesla vandalism vs. Trump and Co attempting to break the bedrock norms of my democracy, I find it laughable, no offense. Our democracy is on fire right now and the Admin intends to break it further.
Your democracy or any other for that matter is build on rules of power distribution. You either have no genuine understanding of what "democracy" means and/or are willfully misusing the term. Your democracy and its vote v power institutions are working just fine. Your federal bureaucracy is what is under fire and is i might add heavily (and effectively) defended by the checks and balances of the democracy you say is allegedly on fire.

You can complain that you're democracy is on fire when Trump áctually bends/breaks the constitution in (illegally) rocketeering himself to a 3e term with Musk as VP. untill that time, you have no leg to stand on on that front.

Oh hey and remember the project 2025 which you claim Trump didn’t want to see implemented? If EOs are successful, 40% of its goals are already implemented!
If.. nostradamus... IF.

and I didn't say that.. I said that trump said he wasn't aware of it and that he is pro-choice. Might very well be that there is some overlap on things his administration and project 2025 agree on. That doesn't mean he's "secretly implementing it" whilst lying that he doesn't know about it. Trump isn't the type of guy that would do that wouldn't you say? 😄 He's the type of man who would boast about it!

👐"project 2025 people...it gonna be great...you know I invented 2025...sleepy joe couldn't do it, so sad" 👐
 
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SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2022
656 Posts
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Then what is "the right way", that isn't utterly ineffectual then @SaltAcidFatHeatAcid? come on? if you and you lot are gonna ad nauseum spout that argument then lets hear it. put your money where you mouth is.

What is "the right way" to actually get rid of demonstrable corruption that doesn't end up at the bottom of the bureaucracy pile that said corruption has infected, like all the times before? And are you ok with just letting it fester if "the right procedure" isn't applied?
Let's see here... maybe starting with actual audits before mass firings? Attempts to understand what does and does not work before changing it like any other audit leading to workforce reductions and efficiencies in business, or gov't? Working within the law instead of violating it to get things done quickly? It's not just the 'right procedure', it's just following the fucking law dude. There's a growing list of court cases. Oh wait the Admin doesn't think they should have to follow court rulings. Surely that's not going to be a problem.

Your democracy or any other for that matter is build on rules of power distribution. You either have no genuine understanding of what "democracy" means and/or are willfully misusing the term.

You can complain that you're democracy is on fire when Trump áctually bends/breaks the constitution in (illegally) rocketeering himself to a 3e term with Musk as VP. untill that time, you have no leg to stand on on that front.
Wow. I have a full well understanding of what democracy means. And a key component of this in the USA is separation of powers and checks and balances. A representative democracy only works if our reps follow the law, regardless of the will of the brainrot electorate's current vendetta. The rule of law is a key component of a functioning democracy as well. Our founders set up our three branches specifically to prevent what is happening, from happening. Come on man the sarcasm and unseriousness in your response just shows you don't really care if our admin follows the law. And neither does the Trump electorate.
 

dmgtz96

Legendary Member
Jul 13, 2020
3,049 Posts
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I touched some grass and ran into a few anti-Tesla protesters in my city. They had a few signs about "honk if you think Tesla stock should go down!" and I honked.

I think, all of us Tesla drivers are really just victims of Tesla itself and Musk. Their decisions to cut MSRP killed resale values for everyone, and his actions have caused all of us to feel embarrassed to drive our cars.
 

Jetflag

Legendary Member
Jul 17, 2020
5,050 Posts
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Let's see here... maybe starting with actual audits before mass firings? Attempts to understand what does and does not work before changing it like any other audit leading to workforce reductions and efficiencies in business, or gov't?
So basically every single other government audit that I mentioned that ended up below on the pile, doing defacto nothing to stem corruption and waste.

My question involved the word effective, not business-per-usual.

Working within the law instead of violating it to get things done quickly? It's not just the 'right procedure', it's just following the fucking law dude. There's a growing list of court cases. Oh wait the Admin doesn't think they should have to follow court rulings. Surely that's not going to be a problem.
They/ Trump can “think” and bemoan that all they want. Show me the case where Trump in his office as president and the privileges therein actually did not abide by the final ruling of the law/ courts in the final analysis?

Wow. I have a full well understanding of what democracy means.
Then why are you constantly misusing the term? Bureaucracy = not democracy
And a key component of this in the USA is separation of powers and checks and balances. A representative democracy only works if our reps follow the law, regardless of the will of the brainrot electorate's current vendetta. The rule of law is a key component of a functioning democracy as well. Our founders set up our three branches specifically to prevent what is happening, from happening.
Again. Show me the case where Trump in his office as president and the privileges therein did, factually, not abide by the final ruling of the law/court?



I have not seen a single instance of that and what’s more..neither have you. Or you would have mentioned it ad nauseum already. Which is why you resort to “if’s” and “they wills” and “they thinks” “going to be” -ism’s.



Until that áctually happens, “democracy is on fire” is doomsday-preaching. And when that actually happens, I promise you I will come on here and say: “yes you where right in your predictions” 🙏


Come on man the sarcasm and unseriousness in your response just shows you don't really care if our admin follows the law. And neither does the Trump electorate.

If I didn’t have any sympathy or was uninterested in this topic i would be posting here dude.. I just think you’re wrong/ in no small amount hyperbolic, and this is me reacting to that.

You are worried. Understandable.. but you being worried or perhaps even scared does not mean you are therefor right.

Your democratic institutions are functioning. Trump operates within the bounds of the law and where he attempts not to, he is wistled back by the courts and institutions you claim “are on fire”

and until there is an act of áctual dictatorship where he has a judge lynched or something.. you have no leg to stand on.
 
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Jetflag

Legendary Member
Jul 17, 2020
5,050 Posts
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I touched some grass and ran into a few anti-Tesla protesters in my city. They had a few signs about "honk if you think Tesla stock should go down!" and I honked.

I think, all of us Tesla drivers are really just victims of Tesla itself and Musk. Their decisions to cut MSRP killed resale values for everyone, and his actions have caused all of us to feel embarrassed to drive our cars.
One week before the election mate ;)
 
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jacob

New Member
Feb 28, 2024
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What amazes me is how the US media, and then by extension the public, make tariffs this huge, all encompassing focus. There is health crisis that is completely crippling the country. It's unprecedented, the worst on the entire planet. It's costing trillions upon trillions, making everyone miserable, destroying generations. 1 in 5 KIDS are obese. 1 in 36 are getting autism... it used to be 1 in 10,000. Cancer is exploding. Diabetes alone cost the US 400 billion in one year and that number grows.

This human cost and this economic cost is magnitudes above any other issue, and by far. When are people going to wake up and evaluate where our priorities should be? Instead we decide to indulge ourselves in this partisan bullshit, worrying whether a dishwasher is going to cost $100 more because of some tarrifs that apply for 4 years max. This is why RFK is so popular, because for some reason, he is (despite what the pharmaceutical owned media tells you) the only sane one in the room.
You’re right — health issues like obesity, autism, cancer, and diabetes are massive crises that deserve way more attention. Prioritizing health could have a greater impact than debates over short-term economic policies. If you’re looking into managing diabetes, to Buy Mounjaro Online has been a game-changer for many. Sites like Canada Drugs Direct offer access to it online, which can make things a lot easier. Focusing on solutions like this feels more productive than getting caught up in the noise.
 
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Jetflag

Legendary Member
Jul 17, 2020
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What an absolute boomerism that was..

“accidentally added the Atlantic to the chat”

morons..

stick to pigeons and smoke signals next time please, or at least go the musk route and hire GenZ grads to handle your chat groups..
 

LostLegend

Elite Member
Dec 5, 2020
1,319 Posts
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Liverpool, UK
Website
www.beatport.com
What an absolute boomerism that was..

“accidentally added the Atlantic to the chat”

morons..

stick to pigeons and smoke signals next time please, or at least go the musk route and hire GenZ grads to handle your chat groups..
Tech illiteracy + complacency.

I've worked within the legal sector (a long time ago) nothing at this level of course, but enough that there were some pretty heavy rules and regulations on data, passwords, who has access to what systems and whatnot.
Most of these systems have enforced regular password changes, auto-timeouts/logouts ect. and it can get very frustrating to navigate.
I imagine there's similar, if not more restrictive process on their official channels, so likely why they've all jumped on Signal.

It likely happens loads through out government and of course people get complacent and things like this happen.

Very lucky it was this journalist and not someone who could have used all of this info for nefarious means.
 
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Arnoud

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2020
750 Posts
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15 Stories High

I mean, damn buddy, calm down. Apparently I does work for her party, I am going to yell and say that Biden did something wrong, changed the weather or something like that and be on my way.
 
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Progrez

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Jun 17, 2022
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I am going to leave this here personally I like the portrait.
ChatGPT Image Mar 28, 2025, 09_38_36 PM.png
 
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Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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I love how they still think this will achieve anything or hurt Musk somehow.

Tesla is a public company 😅

Even if it goes bankrupt today Musk will still be the richest man on earth. 🤷‍♂️

90 what% is owned by shareholders and things like pension-funds, and most of Tesla’s cars are owned by liberals who bought the thing because they care about climate change.
 
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Progrez

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Jun 17, 2022
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I love how they still think this will achieve anything or hurt Musk somehow.

Tesla is a public company 😅

Even if it goes bankrupt today Musk will still be the richest man on earth. 🤷‍♂️

90 what% is owned by shareholders and things like pension-funds, and most of Tesla’s cars are owned by liberals who bought the thing because they care about climate change.
Also, people seem to forget how much of a positive influence he has had on society. I mean he has made space/astronomy cool once again despite his erratic and unpredictable behaviour as of late.
 
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Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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Also, people seem to forget how much of a positive influence he has had on society. I mean he has made space/astronomy cool once again despite his erratic and unpredictable behaviour as of late.
yup, not 2 years a go he was pretty much considered the darling of the liberal left political spectrum from everything like Climate change, Sustainability, Innovation, Management etc. Then he switched political camps and now its "oh no actually he was rich all along!", "his slave-workers do everything, he only negatively contributes!", "it was all luck, he's a idiot, not a genius!" "He's a nazi for slashing the government (that one is my absolute personal favorite, lol)" etc. etc.

It just goes to show you how innately tribal people really are...

There's plenty of things he's doing wrong least of which are his yolo-idiot ventures like Hyperloop and the fact that he often spits halftruths on X despite his own community notes and AI, and doesn't bother post-hoc correcting them...

But his net-positive contribution to humanity and humanities future is pretty undeniable IMO.