Conservative or liberal (politics)

Jetflag

Legendary Member
Jul 17, 2020
5,053 Posts
4,518 Thanked
Behind the Bastards - Peter Thiel

Yes, the gay libertarian Palantir cofounder and mentor to Vance. Who funds hard right candidates in the US. The guy who thinks democracy is at odds with his worldview. I assume you know all that but on the off chance you aren’t familiar with him, this episode is good listening.

I’ll skip the obvious partisan propaganda title if you don’t mind m8, 😄 it’s lazy demonization calling a milk-toast contrarian tech investor with libertarian views like Thiel “a bastard”. And “ evil”. Reeks of left wing shlop, sorry, skip. I highly doubt it actually addresses any of his positions intellectually

One his arguments against “full” democracy is actually fairly sound me thinks.

Would you rather:
- have a society ran by 51% of low iq sheep who dictate policy by voting on the loudest promiser (like Trump mind you 💡)
- Or a model where there is a least a filter for demonstrated competence and civic virtue?
 
Last edited:

SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2022
656 Posts
888 Thanked
I’ll skip the obvious partisan propaganda title if you don’t mind m8, 😄 it’s lazy demonization calling a milk-toast contrarian tech investor with libertarian views like Thiel “a bastard”. And “ evil”. Reeks of left wing shlop, sorry, skip. I highly doubt it actually addresses any of his positions intellectually

One his arguments against “full” democracy is actually fairly sound me thinks.

Would you rather:
- have a society ran by 51% of low iq sheep who dictate policy by voting on the loudest promiser (like Trump mind you 💡)
- Or a model where there is a least a filter for demonstrated competence and civic virtue?

It’s the name of the show. It’s a deep dive one who he is and his background. I’m perfectly fine with representative democracy even if it’s flawed. Thiel supports everything our electorate just rejected, so, I’m not alone here. Also, the Evil is Good is his argument, not mine.
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: dmgtz96 and Jetflag

Jetflag

Legendary Member
Jul 17, 2020
5,053 Posts
4,518 Thanked
It’s the name of the show. It’s a deep dive one who he is and his background. I’m perfectly fine with representative democracy even if it’s flawed.
oh same here.. but he does make a strong case against it is what i'm saying. If 51% of “free” people vote for tyranny and/or constricting the rights/freedoms of the remaining 49%, then that is not only unethical, but a failure of the (liberal) democratic systems purpose, (if you consider freedoms & rights worth keeping that is. )

his solutions of creating parallel systems to create competitive pressures aswell as a more heinleinian approach for the electorate seem workable to me.

Thiel supports everything our electorate just rejected, so, I’m not alone here.
I don't think thats at all true m8, he's a Paleolibertarian, him actually getting behind the Iran war or any sort of neoconservative approach in the middle east would break his entire world view. he may have been an early supporter but he's hardly a blanket endorser of everything done and did.

this is again highlights the problem with your/my/our democracies. what was the alternative he could support given his (dis)positions? Kamala harris?
 
  • Thanks
Reactions: SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2022
656 Posts
888 Thanked
oh same here.. but he does make a strong case against it is what i'm saying. If 51% of “free” people vote for tyranny and/or constricting the rights/freedoms of the remaining 49%, then that is not only unethical, but a failure of the (liberal) democratic systems purpose, (if you consider freedoms & rights worth keeping that is. )

his solutions of creating parallel systems to create competitive pressures aswell as a more heinleinian approach for the electorate seem workable to me.


I don't think thats at all true m8, he's a Paleolibertarian, him actually getting behind the Iran war or any sort of neoconservative approach in the middle east would break his entire world view. he may have been an early supporter but he's hardly a blanket endorser of everything done and did.

this is again highlights the problem with your/my/our democracies. what was the alternative he could support given his (dis)positions? Kamala harris?

It’s pretty simple for me. He was an early supporter of Trump, his acolyte is the VP and bears some responsibility for for the actions of the admin. His company has been enabling ICE’s campaign of terror on a technological basis. His company’s targeting platform has been a key part of the military action in Iran.

Aside from that though, he and musk believe that gov’t bureaucracy should not stymie the progress that technology leaders could make with less regulation. Given what the Trump admission administration has done and that they both continue to support them is my primary issue. And they seem to wholly support the campaign of misinformation that comes out of them as well, which to me is the most toxic aspect of our modern political landscape.

I don’t know, man, if I was a tech billionaire, I’d spend my money on education and making the world a better place. Seems like once your pile of money gets big enough concerns of the average person seem to be less important than making that pile of money bigger.
 
Last edited:
  • Thanks
Reactions: dmgtz96 and Jetflag

Jetflag

Legendary Member
Jul 17, 2020
5,053 Posts
4,518 Thanked
It’s pretty simple for me. He was an early supporter of Trump, his acolyte is the VP and bears some responsibility for for the actions of the admin. His company has been enabling ICE’s campaign of terror on a technological basis. His company’s targeting platform has been a key part of the military action in Iran.
Aside from that though, he and musk believe that gov’t bureaucracy should not stymie the progress that technology leaders could make with less regulation. Given what the Trump admission administration has done and that they both continue to support them is my primary issue. And they seem to wholly support the campaign of misinformation that comes out of them as well, which to me is the most toxic aspect of our modern political landscape.
Well Look, if the argument is purely Rich guy X promotes political party or x ideology I disagree with, can totally relate there m8, i have a sincere dislike for Soros and his "banking activities" for that reason...

As for kafkaésq bureaucracies, yes I agree with Musk/Thiel on that, you can have some oversight like the environmental/pollution or risk part when say, developing a thorium reactor but it should not go the point where everything is defacto bureacratized to death..which is what is nearly the case in Nl where I live, trust me, you don't want that.

The engagement with mis or more apt "selective" information i would argue is indeed a sign that we live in a time of post-truth but totally not reserved solely to one side, Case in point. you wrote:

I don’t know, man, if I was a tech billionaire, I’d spend my money on education and making the world a better place. Seems like once your pile of money gets big enough concerns of the average person seem to be less important than making that pile of money bigger.
He does m8 😄 Whoever told you/wherever did you get the idea he was just scrootching piles of cash in vault somewhere? which isn't even remotely how his financial worth is measured but hey ho..

Between Musk and Thiel (and Musk a hell of a lot more then the latter) :

- A combined half a billion was spend in charity projects in education, scolarships, research and healthcare...
- Neuralink literally makes disabled people walk again and blind people see for the first time...
- not one person has done more to single handily confront climate change in the field of EV and green solar energy transition then Musk and his Solarcity/Tesla Teslaenergy companies,
- SpaceX is already putting solutions in place for the data centre problem and their environmental impact, (water, energy etc.) not to mention reliable global fast internet,
- A country was defacto saved/prevented from being annexed thanks too said starlink before a government contract was even signed, so that was his own money he lost for a good cause there...
- hundreds of thousands of direct jobs and even more support or supply chain companies and their families supported..

and last but not least a whopping 11 billion (!) record in federal tax money, of which both parties and their respective offices, so Dems and Reps/trump alike, only spend a rough 200 million on education.

yes, let the bureaucrats have more power...that'll make the world a better place, no thanks.

Honestly, I would, when it comes to making the world better, rather have 1 musk, then a thousand cloth-brained politicians (who all don't contribute a single tax dollar, let alone create wealth)

but thats me 🤷‍♂️
 

dmgtz96

Legendary Member
Jul 13, 2020
3,049 Posts
1,894 Thanked
Hard to feel sorry for this guy at all. He has no ethics and has indulged Trump at almost every turn. Now he’s spitting a little more truth (convenient timing), but the stench is going to be hard to wash off. He made his bed, sleep in it ya runt.

Which to me is all for the best, because while he does lack the moral compass, he is savvy and quite intelligent, and would be far more dangerous than Trump in power. His deep connections to Thiel are also very concerning (Mr Evil is good).
He’s smart but deeply un charismatic. He’ll be thrown out immediately after his term is over.
No one riles up conservative voters quite like Trump