All stuff trans- related
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SaltAcidFatHeatAcid
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There’s a massive off-topic discussion (which I’m admittedly semi guilty of). In the ai tools general music discussion regarding being trans/, transgenders, Etc
hence I made this topic in an effort to stop the clutter over there, whilst still permitting debate on said subject
For the love of God, no. This forum already comes across as a creepy little boys club with a huge transphobia issue, the last thing we need is a thread where it can all come out.
It's never me that starts this issue, it's only ever some awful hate-filled response to the subject of trans people that causes me to pipe up.
Mods please delete this thread.
It's never me that starts this issue, it's only ever some awful hate-filled response to the subject of trans people that causes me to pipe up.
Mods please delete this thread.
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- Jul 17, 2020
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@mods I’m genuinely ok with that too, ^
as long as it’s settled over in the general music thread
that said this is imo a societal topic involving a lot stir no matter from which side you approach it, (hence said mentioned debacle in the first place) so why not have a special section for it
if it dies and ends up at the bottom of the list, fine too
as long as it’s settled over in the general music thread
that said this is imo a societal topic involving a lot stir no matter from which side you approach it, (hence said mentioned debacle in the first place) so why not have a special section for it
if it dies and ends up at the bottom of the list, fine too
Julian Del Agranda
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- Jul 3, 2020
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To add to the discussion. And Tuna won't like it...
And to clarify beforehand, like I already said: I have nothing against any letter of the LGBTHISZ{DY+. If someone feels he/she is actually the other gender. Fine, call yourself the other gender. Have surgery if that makes you happy too.
You can even make us call you "them" or "mx" or whatever, although I do think you make your life more difficult than it has to. You could also just accept the use of the word "he" if you look like a male. I also accept that people assume that I am straight, eventhough I am not. It's not morarlly bad that people make the bad assumption. It's simply the world we live in. But it's your life. Do what you like.
And I also do understand that some people question whether hormone-injections should already be given to children of let's say 11 years old who say they are trans. I do too question if that's the right way to go. Yees, I understand it's biologicallu the BEST TO START EARLY, for the best results. The earlier you start the change, the better. But still, they are children, do they really know what they want? Perhaps sometimes they really know. There are also guys who say they knew they are gay when 9, 10 year old. But it's not always like that.
I hear a lot of straight people tell me they experiemented with guys too in their childhood. Tbh, I did some stuff with multiple (who turned out to be) straights as well when I was like 13, 14, 15, 16 year old. So therefor I don't think it's "morally wrong" to just put a questionmark there, when talking about hormone injections for young children.
Then, I finally come to the new thing I wanted to add. My husband has an ex-colleugue who is a psychologist. And he is the one who handles all the trans cases. We talked with him about this subject too. And he also says the world seems to be changing. Sure, there are your regular people who feel trans etc. But there is also a young group (and growing) that seems to have a history with trauma, bullying, asperger, low self esteem, abuse, etc. This is the group that I described in the other topic as "the people who seem confused and lost. With their green hair and alternative look and clothing". This psychologist worries too, about the growth of this group. There seems to be going on something in society.
And this isn't just about the trans thing. The young generation in general has more difficulties in finding their path, their identy, their purpose. There are also a lot of young straight kids who are addicted to becoming the new six-pack-popular-fit-twink-twunk dude. Simply because that's all they see on social media.
@LostLegend I saw you didn't like the topic much. I hope I was able to make myself clear better and there is no bad feelings towards me.
And to clarify beforehand, like I already said: I have nothing against any letter of the LGBTHISZ{DY+. If someone feels he/she is actually the other gender. Fine, call yourself the other gender. Have surgery if that makes you happy too.
You can even make us call you "them" or "mx" or whatever, although I do think you make your life more difficult than it has to. You could also just accept the use of the word "he" if you look like a male. I also accept that people assume that I am straight, eventhough I am not. It's not morarlly bad that people make the bad assumption. It's simply the world we live in. But it's your life. Do what you like.
And I also do understand that some people question whether hormone-injections should already be given to children of let's say 11 years old who say they are trans. I do too question if that's the right way to go. Yees, I understand it's biologicallu the BEST TO START EARLY, for the best results. The earlier you start the change, the better. But still, they are children, do they really know what they want? Perhaps sometimes they really know. There are also guys who say they knew they are gay when 9, 10 year old. But it's not always like that.
I hear a lot of straight people tell me they experiemented with guys too in their childhood. Tbh, I did some stuff with multiple (who turned out to be) straights as well when I was like 13, 14, 15, 16 year old. So therefor I don't think it's "morally wrong" to just put a questionmark there, when talking about hormone injections for young children.
Then, I finally come to the new thing I wanted to add. My husband has an ex-colleugue who is a psychologist. And he is the one who handles all the trans cases. We talked with him about this subject too. And he also says the world seems to be changing. Sure, there are your regular people who feel trans etc. But there is also a young group (and growing) that seems to have a history with trauma, bullying, asperger, low self esteem, abuse, etc. This is the group that I described in the other topic as "the people who seem confused and lost. With their green hair and alternative look and clothing". This psychologist worries too, about the growth of this group. There seems to be going on something in society.
And this isn't just about the trans thing. The young generation in general has more difficulties in finding their path, their identy, their purpose. There are also a lot of young straight kids who are addicted to becoming the new six-pack-popular-fit-twink-twunk dude. Simply because that's all they see on social media.
@LostLegend I saw you didn't like the topic much. I hope I was able to make myself clear better and there is no bad feelings towards me.
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facade1984
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- Jul 17, 2020
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There's plenty of discussion to be had, non of which related to mere existence.. Take you pick:
- At what age and/or stage of brain development can one genuinly state one is mentally of the opposite sex and/or can one be (morally) given the responsibility to permanently make one's self infertile? (and should, to limit future regrets no additional precausions like "putting something on ice" be taken before surgery?)
- Is transitioning actually a proper cure/ treatment for people suffering from gender disphoria? and if yes, why are we, despite record numbers of said gender surgeries not seeing any drop and even a increase in trans-teen suicide rates incl post transitioners?
- if it ís the proper cure, why is it excluded to gender disphoria only? e.a. why aren't we treating bulemic disorders with say: liposuctions and should we perhaps start doing or at the very least testing that?
- What actually ís being trans? Is, or should, the mental construct be the only criteria? and why?
- Should de-transitioners/ people with cripling regret stories just be shrugged of and whiped under the carpet or is there a legit concern there too?
- Whats the precise Hippocratic role that gender surgery clinics and psychologists should employ in this? What procedures/ restrictions should or shouldn't there be in place here? Is it uberhaubt ethical to make billions of dollars by turning (pre)teens into life-long dependent patients via advertising?
etc, etc, et all, et all.
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facade1984
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LostLegend
Senior Member
No bad feelings at all mate.
Just to clarify, the reason I was a bit pissed off with what happened in said thread was because there was no reason for it to head in that direction.
I posted a youtube video about current AI music tech that happened to be made by a trans person.
Another member decided to use that post to rant about trans people being weirdos or whatever term was used (The post has since been deleted).
That's not a debate, that's just someone being an arsehole for the sake of it.
By all means, have a debate (in the correct thread), have opposing views and all that, but for someone to just use it as an excuse to be a shitty person about an entire group of people is not on.
As for the thread overall. Honestly, I try (for the most part) to avoid a lot of the politics & culture war debate on here as I post a lot in the 'Current Affairs' section of another forum that I frequent and in all honesty, that's enough for me! - I come here mostly for the music and vibes
What I will add to the discussion is this;
I'd be interested to know how many of you have friends that are either trans or have loved ones who are trans?
Because I often see people who have pretty strong opinions on trans people without ever having interacted with a trans person.
I mean, That's pretty fucking important, right?
I say this because I do have a friend who is trans and another friend whose 16yo daughter is trans. And the type of things I hear from certain media outlets etc. about what trans people want and what their "agenda" (agenda ffs!) is often differs wildly from what the actual trans people I know are saying.
In truth, most of them just want to be left the fuck alone and be able to live their life as they wish without being the spearhead of today's culture wars.
Just something to consider.
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Exactly. It's the same trope of the homophobic aunt/grandma who developed their opinions based on whatever right-wing newspaper they read, then immediately changed their tune when someone in the family came out. Or not, as was sadly the case in my own extended family.
As I said in the other thread, I have seen a post by a member of this forum that mentioned a trans relative. I am not suggesting we dig that up or drag the person in here because that would be awful, but I guarantee the posters concerned here would not mouth off to that person the way they do in their posts.
Maybe that person has already quietly decided to leave. Who knows how many others have been put off joining this place.
Why we even feel there is any need for a group of entirely cis men to debate this issue I have absolutely no idea.
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Julian Del Agranda
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To be honest I think you scare them off more than I do?
I just ask questions and welcome any trans person to give their insights.
You on the other hand, think it’s better to just stop talking. Simply because I am not part of that group. I strongly believe “stop talking” is never the right choice.
You keep saying “phobic” and therefor make it a “tense” subject. Why?
As gay man I would personally gladly answer ‘silly’ questions from straights. I bet lots of trans people will also gladly engage, specially after us literally saying anyone can be etc. There’s nothing to be afraid of.
The forum is welcoming for everyone.
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- Jul 17, 2020
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When talking about this I always try make a clear distinction between:
- Trans or de-trans people as individuals..
- The ideology/activists (who aren’t by a stretch all trans) “promoting” transgenderism as something only positive with 0 negative overall consequences.
- The financial incentives/ and markets behind that and the people profiting from it.
Approaching the “trans phenomenon" as a whole only through the eyes of (individual) transgenders and their personal lived experiences is a bit like looking at say… the War on drugs only through the eyes of the users. Completely ignoring things like the Columbian farmers whose livelihood and family depends on it, the Cartels not giving them a choice and being invested in selling it, governments institutions “fighting” it but also being semi-dependent on their existence. Etc.
it’s a far more nuanced and complex issue then just, in this example, the person high in the club or addict in the gutter suffering from withdrawal symptoms, and rightfully deserving of some empathy.
One can perfectly, (and should by the way), be sympathetic and respectful towards any trans-individual and their Weltanschauung without necessarily thinking it to be a great idea overall. Whether for the person in question or to “promote” this in the larger society, especially concerning minors.
To answer your question as to who do I know personally:
I am well acquainted with 1 (successfully transitioned) individual, who’s like me fairly libertarian leaning and transitioned when, he now she, was 18. She also shares the sentiment of just wanting to be left alone and live her life, without being the spearhead of today's culture wars. Hence her, coïncidently, not being on board with things like “transgender day” and “flags for recognition” on government buildings, billboards, IKEA’s and what not as she considers it devisive and pushy.
One de-transitioner or better yet halfway- bailer who’s now just a normal lesbian, but with unfortunate permanent scarring throughout her chest.
And a daughter from a former colleague of mine, who’s currently in the whole process, surgery being considered but not (yet) implemented last we spoke.
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- Jul 17, 2020
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And, given that, why some of us feel the need to "equalize" the user-base to some sort of all-representation-communist-utopian-pipe dream, i have no idea either.
as if there should be something wrong with this little ittypitty niche corner of the internet being predominantly male..so what?
I would hereby also like to welcome you and @LostLegend and every other tf er officialy to the "evil cis men" community
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