Is the 90s "revival" ("trance",acid,house,techno) scene a gimmick/fashion statement rather than a loveletter to the 90s?

Daysleeper

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Well, it could be good to have a 7 min GOOD track first before you try on your 30 min trance journey..

I only see Lieb pulling it off!

edit: already ot btw.
 

Julian Del Agranda

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Jul 3, 2020
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I think this one is easy.

A fashion statement, no, obviously not. The slow bleepy Armin-CosmicGate-Everyone 'new trance', that's the fashion at the moment.

90's trance is a 'scene' made by lovers, for lovers. Guys like Enigma State do it because they love that kind of music. Not because they try to be hip.
 

Jetflag

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Well, it could be good to have a 7 min GOOD track first before you try on your 30 min trance journey..
Then you need to extremely precisely articulate what GOOD is before anyone can even make an attempt 🤷‍♀️ ;)
 
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Daysleeper

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I think this one is easy.

A fashion statement, no, obviously not. The slow bleepy Armin-CosmicGate-Everyone 'new trance', that's the fashion at the moment.

90's trance is a 'scene' made by lovers, for lovers. Guys like Enigma State do it because they love that kind of music. Not because they try to be hip.
Im not talking about enigma state. Have you missed the 90s underground "trance" revival,bandcamp/soundcloud scene? Its being posted huge amounts of this style in classic trance producers and various other thread here on the forum aswell. The armin/cosmic gate is def not fashionable among teens and young adults. Maybe among 35-50 year olds. This has nothing to do with the dutch mainstream scene. Its 90s aesthetic down to the bone.
 

Daysleeper

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Then you need to extremely precisely articulate what GOOD is before anyone can even make an attempt 🤷‍♀️ ;)
Oh stop with this bullshit.. First you say most agree about the standard of good then you creep back to this assumtion no one knows about it, and I need to explain down to atoms and sandgrains what good or other superlatives are. Its an argument ad-infinitum/ad absurdum.
 
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Jetflag

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Oh stop with this bullshit.. First you say most agree about the standard of good then you creep back to this assumtion no one knows about it, and I need to explain down to atoms and sandgrains what good or other superlatives are. Its an argument ad-infinitum/ad absurdum.
🤨.....eh...no?

I said most users here seem to experience common qualia, and that as such (trance) music isn't "fully" subjective but has shared attributes that can potentially be further build upon... I never said most agree on the standard of "good" lol..

I don't get why you're getting in such a hissifit over me diggin for what that is with other people/specifics here.. Do you not want to help or see things improve? Do you not want quote on quote "" better" tracks to enjoy?

Or are you just here to superficially winge and moan at nauseum about how nothing can attune to your over-saturated trance-taste buds anymore and "everything used to be better" all the time?
 

Daysleeper

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I said most users here seem to experience common qualia, and that as such (trance) music isn't "fully" subjective but has shared attributes that can potentially be further build upon... I never said most agree on the standard of "good" lol..

I don't get why you're getting in such a hissifit over me diggin for what that is with other people/specifics here.. Do you not want to help or see things improve? Do you not want quote on quote "" better" tracks to enjoy?
Absolutely. Then I misread or misjudged your posts.

Or are you just here to superficially winge and moan at nauseum about how nothing can attune to your over-saturated trance-taste buds anymore and "everything used to be better" all the time?
Haha, no :cautious:

But this isnt the "what can be improved in trance" thread. Its about the 90s revival scene.
 
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Jetflag

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Absolutely. Then I misread or misjudged your posts.
Haha, no :cautious:

But this isnt the "what can be improved in trance" thread. Its about the 90s revival scene.


fair enough, but it is touching on things missing compared to the 90's and i'm interrested in what those specs specifically are that áre missing in that (seen from other users' perspectives at least, I do have my own thoughs about it) , this is also why I asked @dmgtz96 for further clarification on his part.

They also seem to be missing in current trance aswell (to a degree at least) So somewhere some things got lost along the way, and i'm (genuinly) interrested in where and what.

edit: and again right...this is not from a place of "hah gotcha" to connaisseurs/critics like yourself..its genuinly to research/learn/ improve
 
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Recharge

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@Daysleeper I think I have some inside view on last year specifically. I was focused only on label releases and beatport since for better of for worst this is the best place to find all kinds of music.

I've checked almost every single release last year. Anything I didn't bough was just dumped from my brain, but I still purchased 1000 songs in 12 months.

So here are my thoughts:

Maybe some producers used it as a gimmick - I am thinking Ben Hamsley for example. But even if you check his first releases his music always had 90s vibe so I am more inclined to say maybe not, or he is going for that style only for a purpose.

Than you get some producers like Marc Van Linden who did only old school music last year and he has been around for a while so I don't thinks so either. It sure looks like passion, also I was very surprised Vandit where he releases was releasing some old sounding stuff.

Then my favourite DJ Darroo who moved from hard trance and dance to old school trance last year(I actually found him last year because of that) , again someone who has been for a while in the industry so I don't think he is making it as gimmick. But as they say in some studies with age people mellow and tend to go for less energetic and banging music - plausible explanation.

Surprisingly the two most productive ones in my opinion had DJ in their names which is not surprising at all, because this people listened or dj-ed that kind of music and it influnced them even in later stages of their careers. (Dj.Fili, DJ Darroo)

Another thing I personally saw old school producers like The Digital Blonde and Mac & Monday saying they are not getting chances to dj because they are overlooked. And we all know why, because old school trance is not popular, not even in the slightest.

In conclusion, I don't think it's a gimmick for MOST of the producers, but a passion project. I urge everyone to check my compilation, I have the complete list with the labels names here in the forum and the compilation is very useful because it summarises all the trends of 2022. Btw most of the old school stuff went on the techy works and the old school selection from the compilation. I definitely found some labels I want to keep an eye on...
 

SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

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Jul 19, 2022
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what those specs specifically are that áre missing

What is often missing from modern trance, and the revival stuff to a lesser extent:
- Unique track structure: The brain develops pattern recognition when artists are re-using templates to release regularly vs releasing 1-2-3 tracks a year of higher quality with unique track structure ideas. Revival stuff nails this IMO.
- Developed track layers and ideas that wax and wane, creating the Journey: Old progressive was insane with this and the best trance added and removed elements and new ideas fluidly and with purpose. Not all tracks did this but some of the best did. Lots of bridges and mini breaks. Some were just repeated arps but they still added and remove small elements to support the journey. Revival stuff is really loopy so it's weakest here IMO.
- Strong melody and supporting melodic elements: A lot of generic tracks don't really develop strong melodic themes outside of the main riff and if the melodies are weak to begin with, it's even more generic and bland sounding. Revival tracks can we weak here but arguably a lot of producers aren't going for this aesthetic at all.
- Suprises: A lot of modern trance is so bloody predictable. Great tracks surprise you with unique elements. Revival stuff is full of surprises.

I will again insist though that a lot of the revival stuff isn't trying to be trance and expecting it to be a rehash of the 90s is really missing the boat. It's 2023. I don't want to hear 1999 again, I want fresh new concepts, sound design, and people to shatter the mold. Revival/nutrance is the closest I have to that at the moment. I get a lot of people don't like it but why are they upset when a small subset of the the scene gravitates toward something new & fresh? Unclear.
 

Jetflag

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What is often missing from modern trance, and the revival stuff to a lesser extent:
- Unique track structure: The brain develops pattern recognition when artists are re-using templates to release regularly vs releasing 1-2-3 tracks a year of higher quality with unique track structure ideas. Revival stuff nails this IMO.
- Developed track layers and ideas that wax and wane, creating the Journey: Old progressive was insane with this and the best trance added and removed elements and new ideas fluidly and with purpose. Not all tracks did this but some of the best did. Lots of bridges and mini breaks. Some were just repeated arps but they still added and remove small elements to support the journey. Revival stuff is really loopy so it's weakest here IMO.
- Strong melody and supporting melodic elements: A lot of generic tracks don't really develop strong melodic themes outside of the main riff and if the melodies are weak to begin with, it's even more generic and bland sounding. Revival tracks can we weak here but arguably a lot of producers aren't going for this aesthetic at all.
- Suprises: A lot of modern trance is so bloody predictable. Great tracks surprise you with unique elements. Revival stuff is full of surprises.

I will again insist though that a lot of the revival stuff isn't trying to be trance and expecting it to be a rehash of the 90s is really missing the boat. It's 2023. I don't want to hear 1999 again, I want fresh new concepts, sound design, and people to shatter the mold. Revival/nutrance is the closest I have to that at the moment. I get a lot of people don't like it but why are they upset when a small subset of the the scene gravitates toward something new & fresh? Unclear.
Thanks 👍
 
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Daysleeper

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What is often missing from modern trance, and the revival stuff to a lesser extent:
- Unique track structure: The brain develops pattern recognition when artists are re-using templates to release regularly vs releasing 1-2-3 tracks a year of higher quality with unique track structure ideas. Revival stuff nails this IMO.
- Developed track layers and ideas that wax and wane, creating the Journey: Old progressive was insane with this and the best trance added and removed elements and new ideas fluidly and with purpose. Not all tracks did this but some of the best did. Lots of bridges and mini breaks. Some were just repeated arps but they still added and remove small elements to support the journey. Revival stuff is really loopy so it's weakest here IMO.
- Strong melody and supporting melodic elements: A lot of generic tracks don't really develop strong melodic themes outside of the main riff and if the melodies are weak to begin with, it's even more generic and bland sounding. Revival tracks can we weak here but arguably a lot of producers aren't going for this aesthetic at all.
- Suprises: A lot of modern trance is so bloody predictable. Great tracks surprise you with unique elements. Revival stuff is full of surprises.

I will again insist though that a lot of the revival stuff isn't trying to be trance and expecting it to be a rehash of the 90s is really missing the boat. It's 2023. I don't want to hear 1999 again, I want fresh new concepts, sound design, and people to shatter the mold. Revival/nutrance is the closest I have to that at the moment. I get a lot of people don't like it but why are they upset when a small subset of the the scene gravitates toward something new & fresh? Unclear.
Well-explained asnwer. Ive said this since 2013, just a bit different explained, even have a couple more points.,but it seems no one listened,or cared, or even tried to see what I meant, but this to me just seem such an obvious thing now, all these points, like in the mainstream scene - hasnt anybody reflected on this, like ever? You only hear that tracks from hte past are dated, simple,long and that new trance are superior just because of simply one factor - sound-quality. Like thats the only factor for great music.

Concerning the revival stuff. I dont think anyone thats passionate about classic trance or "real" trance looks down or are upset about it. Quite the opposite, and ive only had mostly positives to say about it when Ive commented on track. Im just curious on the motivation/intent behind it. If its just we just wanna have fun with it sure thats fine I guess. Because I see alot of mere fashion behind the actual music And I think the biggest difference in the nutrance vs oldschool trance comes down to actual ability to compose/create a good tune. Or it could just be what you said they dont want to make trance, but they certainly flirt with it? And when you say "rehash of the 90s". Well, its ceratinly a rehash or cocktail of parts of the 90s for sure. So its not really new in that sense. Fresh? More like it, I buy into that

Rehash
  1. to present or use again in another form without substantial change or improvement
 

Daysleeper

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Jul 13, 2020
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@Daysleeper I think I have some inside view on last year specifically. I was focused only on label releases and beatport since for better of for worst this is the best place to find all kinds of music.

I've checked almost every single release last year. Anything I didn't bough was just dumped from my brain, but I still purchased 1000 songs in 12 months.

So here are my thoughts:

Maybe some producers used it as a gimmick - I am thinking Ben Hamsley for example. But even if you check his first releases his music always had 90s vibe so I am more inclined to say maybe not, or he is going for that style only for a purpose.

Than you get some producers like Marc Van Linden who did only old school music last year and he has been around for a while so I don't thinks so either. It sure looks like passion, also I was very surprised Vandit where he releases was releasing some old sounding stuff.

Then my favourite DJ Darroo who moved from hard trance and dance to old school trance last year(I actually found him last year because of that) , again someone who has been for a while in the industry so I don't think he is making it as gimmick. But as they say in some studies with age people mellow and tend to go for less energetic and banging music - plausible explanation.

Surprisingly the two most productive ones in my opinion had DJ in their names which is not surprising at all, because this people listened or dj-ed that kind of music and it influnced them even in later stages of their careers. (Dj.Fili, DJ Darroo)

Another thing I personally saw old school producers like The Digital Blonde and Mac & Monday saying they are not getting chances to dj because they are overlooked. And we all know why, because old school trance is not popular, not even in the slightest.

In conclusion, I don't think it's a gimmick for MOST of the producers, but a passion project. I urge everyone to check my compilation, I have the complete list with the labels names here in the forum and the compilation is very useful because it summarises all the trends of 2022. Btw most of the old school stuff went on the techy works and the old school selection from the compilation. I definitely found some labels I want to keep an eye on...
Hehe, you seem to have your own little scene/bubble there with Dj Darroo and co :)
 

Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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Well-explained asnwer. Ive said this since 2013, just a bit different explained, even have a couple more points.,but it seems no one listened,or cared, or even tried to see what I meant, but this to me just seem such an obvious thing now, all these points, like in the mainstream scene - hasnt anybody reflected on this, like ever? You only hear that tracks from hte past are dated, simple,long and that new trance are superior just because of simply one factor - sound-quality. Like thats the only factor for great music.
I can tell you why i'm interrested in it now as opposed to 2013...

2013 was me still in uni, And i was happy just getting an hours per month in the studio churning out something.. Let alone being pre-occupied with how to improve trance as a musical genre. I had like one release every two years orso.

Currently having a stable family and income simply mentally allows me more to think about these things, and potentially experiment with it.
 

Hensmon

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Jun 27, 2020
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this is actually my gripe with people who are trying to bring back 2004 era uplifting trance because they really are trying to do that exact same thing

For me I have no issue with this. All I want is good music, if its 99 style, 2004 style, or whatever. I would sell my left nut to have the scene and sounds of 2004 back. New and original is obviously fantastic, but for nearly 15 years we had producers trying new things with Trance and it was either not as good, or plain bad. I really like this revival stuff but I still don't think its as good as the previous generations, at least the pure Trance stuff. So i'll take quality over originality personally, if there had to be a choice.

If we can bring back 2004 sounds on TF label I would be buzzing
 

Redrot

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Jan 11, 2022
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Don't get me wrong, I'll 100% take it and enjoy it. I just don't value it quite as much artistically as artists taking inspiration from something bygone and doing their own new original thing with it. It's why I like contemporary art more than more "standard" forms. Or free jazz or spiritual jazz more than bebop and cool jazz (in the 21st century) (e: though I'll take all of that anyways - it's all great)
 
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TRANCEBLASTER

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Jul 21, 2020
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'Trance' is 3 decades old with 5 - 15 000 releases from year to year, the top notch conventional quality is already behind us, the golden age was 20 years ago.. same goes with 'Techno' and 'House'.. most of the new tracks sound like other tracks aand from 100 releases, maybe 1 is something special.)

I see the future of the 90s club genres only in fusions and mutations and imho there is no other way for them to stay valid. Its over.

@Hensmon So i'll take quality over originality personally, if there had to be a choice.

me too, and it will be only harder, becasuse the 90s underground guys had music as a full time job, today if you are not a commercial artist its just a hobby thing, 8 hours vs 2 hours of music. im not an entusiast here
 

erickUO

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From my POV, it's an alternative scene with a respect to the past.

A scene where artists can have fun or freely express their ideas without the pressure to fit into a box. It gives room for creativity, because artists who don't fit anywhere are welcomed. I think this was the intention.

Like Redrot mentioned in another thread, I would like to see the mainstream labels and nutrance artist collaborate or cross-pollinate a bit.
+10000 for this
Apparently, only Lost Language (with Sioc remix) and Anjuna (with Maruwa remix) did that.
 

No Return

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Mar 9, 2022
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Where do you see the fashion statement? Are you talking about clothing, or the decoration at the nights and the posters and such? I don't see what you are talking about if thats so. I only hear the music and even so I do not find the link to the 90s as strong as others here. I dont hear Platifpus, Harthouse, EyeQ, Bonzai in any of the revival Trance.

Maybe some of the speed techno influence Trance is 90s feeling, ones like on Spacetraxx and UTE label, but I do not really like that. No way they are making that music for fashion. Thats the type of Trance that your parents disown you if you are a 'musician' and you show them, or the kids at school decide you isolate you ask the freak. Charlotte De Wit techno is the trendy world my friend.