Thoughts on producers selling their entire project

[Magnus]

What do you guys think of think of producers that sell their entire project file? There's so many of them out there now, but I see more and more appearing all the time.

To be clear, I don't mean project templates. I mean producers selling their complete project files for a specific track they have released.

Personally this is not something I would do. IMO it's just inviting people who haven't put in any of the work to learn anything to change some things around in the project, File, Save As, and call it their own work. But I guess now with music AI getting better and better all the time, what does it even matter.

 

[Progrez]

Can you give an example? Do you mean ghost producers? I know Laurent allowed JOOF to take full credibility for his track Astrophysical nebula which sounds like a track Airwave would produce.

 

[Bobby Summa]

There is something called sync licensing where a track you make becomes available to be used by people like content creators like someone wanting a song for (I think) their YouTube video - to massive companies, for example for the American football Super Bowl (this has been done by someone famous I believe) -This very morning I have been researching sync licensing as a way of potentially providing income for a piece of music, be it ambient work, or more dance (including trance) based music.
I do not want to continue my day job or any standard day job for the rest of my life so will at some point give things like this and the following a try. An old friend and music producer I’m in touch with more these days does these types of things for his living. He made or was involved with an X factor (UK TV singer talent show) song that got to no 1 in the UK charts.

I’m not sure if sync licensing is applied with the following (it may be) but It also appears there are websites such as Audiio and Epidemic Sound where your music if you are hired or used by the website as an artist can be placed then used by people who subscribe to the service. These websites are in contact with publishers and labels. Some sites of this nature also give availability of the song or track their artist has made to have stems of the track available to subscribers of their website who want to use a piece.

There are also sites such as fiverr where you can be a free lance musician, have a profile and advertise a service to make a piece of music for someone. This could be on various basis such as ghost producing (which I’m not overly keen on) where someone buys your track and releases it or keeps it as their own, to do as they wish with, whether it’s released with a record label or not. Usually I think releasing with a record label is the intention. There have in the history of trance been many examples of this and is a very contentious area given the famous names who have had ghost producers involved with what has sometimes become a ‘Trance Classic’. Usually in these instances, the famous producer / DJ was involved at some level with the track but used a ghost producer to perhaps do a bulk of the work. For example, A famous producer / DJ might use someone to translate ideas they have into actuality if they lack technical skills or such like.

- but sites like fiverr are for far more than ghost producers. You can be a freelancer making tracks for anyone who wants to use your service and make the track to their liking, communicating with them during the process, as they may be making a small film for example. They might also just want music for their YouTube channel or a university project etc.

I’m looking into doing all or some of the above ( but probably not ghost producing)

 

[Hensmon]

Could be a nice way to learn? At one stage I was curious at producing and I did look for project files of classics to see how they were done, so I could inspect and wrap my head around the concept of building a track.

Selling a project file to actual producers though does feel in the sort of ghost production realm tbh. Might be a useful learning experience still, like if someone makes a really awesome kick and hats that you want for your own track. Guess it comes down to how much just copy and paste vs use for influence.

 

[Bobby Summa]

What do you guys think of think of producers that sell their entire project file? There's so many of them out there now, but I see more and more appearing all the time.

To be clear, I don't mean project templates. I mean producers selling their complete project files for a specific track they have released.

Personally this is not something I would do. IMO it's just inviting people who haven't put in any of the work to learn anything to change some things around in the project, File, Save As, and call it their own work. But I guess now with music AI getting better and better all the time, what does it even matter.

Sorry dude, I’m realising you probably knew everything in my last comment. Perhaps I should read a name properly before responding. ( it was a dark room when I wrote my answer)

A thought I had tho is that what you described sounds (if I get what your asking) perfect as a way of getting someone to do a remix of a track, or basically someone who wants to buy it can use it to practice. so in this way maybe someone who wants to learn remixing could really benefit. Actually, someone like me. I think then that the aspect of what the person buying it does afterwards is a potential issue ie- ownership etc… depends on the legal framework set out by you as the seller and creator of the file and original track perhaps, but also the label (& probably any accompanying publisher / promotor) you released the original track with.

 

[Magnus]

Can you give an example? Do you mean ghost producers? I know Laurent allowed JOOF to take full credibility for his track Astrophysical nebula which sounds like a track Airwave would produce.

I don't mean ghost producers. Unfortunately, I'm all too familiar with ghost producing and who actually wrote what having been in this industry heavily from 2014-2020. One a side note, you can look up who actually wrote and ghosted a large majority of tracks by searching here: https://www.ascap.com/repertory#/

 

[Magnus]

Sorry dude, I’m realising you probably knew everything in my last comment.

A thought I had tho is that what you described sounds (if I get what your asking) perfect as a way of getting someone to do a remix of a track, or basically someone who wants to buy it can use it to practice. so in this way maybe someone who wants to learn remixing could really benefit. Actually, someone like me. I think then that the aspect of what the person buying it does afterwards is a potential issue ie- ownership etc… depends on the legal framework set out by you as the seller and creator of the file and original track perhaps, but also the label (& probably any accompanying publisher / promotor) you released the original track with.

No need to apologize at all! And I agree with you that having access to a fully working project file is a great learning tool. I have traded project files with a few producers in the past and learned quite a few things and vice versa, but I would never sell mine to the public.

Some of us have spent the better part of 20 years learning and defining our methods and styles, and that's what gives us our unique sound. I think selling that is selling a part of your soul, but this is just my opinion.

 

[Bobby Summa]

No need to apologize at all! And I agree with you that having access to a fully working project file is a great learning tool. I have traded project files with a few producers in the past and learned quite a few things and vice versa, but I would never sell mine to the public.

Some of us have spent the better part of 20 years learning and defining our methods and styles, and that's what gives us our unique sound. I think selling that is selling a part of your soul, but this is just my opinion.

I would say if by selling, you also sell the rights, then yes. With everything we put into our music, to sell it blatantly like that could feel rather crappy indeed. If it can be done with a legal thing where who purchases it can’t release it or if wanting to has to go past you to do it (if it’s good what they made) then if you then also like it and provide permission,… then perhaps that’s different.

 

[Bobby Summa]

So. I’ve often thought to myself. If ever I started releasing good tracks consistently. Could I ever bring myself to ghost produce. My answer is… if I didn’t put too much of myself into it… can I justify that to myself? But whenever I’ve gone to my daw / studio. I only put 100% in. And I don’t think anything less is possible . Then would you want to filtrate the scene with a sub standard track but under someone else name and no identity or credit to you. And I’d say… no I wouldn’t . (Probably?) Thats why ghost producing creates such a conflict I feel. Plus what if by chance you wrote such a banger by accident and don’t even realise it …. You get no credit or recognition or anything else really. And that feels like selling your soul to me. But there can be many unknown reasons in life why people do good things that don’t appear to make sense….. so final answer I guess is kinda

edit:
Oh… during me typing you stated info above stating it’s not ghost producing.

Id probably better stay off forums for everyone else’s good . Sorry again dude

 

[Magdelayna]

Youre not a true artist if youre selling your entire projects to random people....why would you want to?!

If you were a good enough producer youd make money in other ways....

 

[facade1984]

It's a great way of making more money off a mediocre track than you would if you just straight up released it on beatport and waited for royalties. Instead of £1 a pop you can charge £20. Not something I'd do either but for much more petty reasons - I don't want motherfuckers knowing all my secrets. I'm also grateful that my day job pays well so I don't have to squeeze cash out of my hobby

 

[Magnus]

It's a great way of making more money off a mediocre track than you would if you just straight up released it on beatport and waited for royalties. Instead of £1 a pop you can charge £20. Not something I'd do either but for much more petty reasons - I don't want motherfuckers knowing all my secrets. I'm also grateful that my day job pays well so I don't have to squeeze cash out of my hobby

Well said. This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. I'm thankful I've had a day job during my musical endeavors to fall back on.

 

[facade1984]

A

Well said. This pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. I'm thankful I've had a day job during my musical endeavors to fall back on.

As a fellow joof artist I'm also a big fan of you man. Yeah I'm drunk so what

 

[Bobby Summa]

A

As a fellow joof artist I'm also a big fan of you man. Yeah I'm drunk so what

I’m so glad you’re on this forum man. I mean… look at the things I say. Things I think are fine but others might not. Wonderful thing that I think ( I do end up deleting some tho… I’m a bit of a pusy sometimes lol)

 

[facade1984]

Ehh it's just a hobby innit and this is how I talk, too many producers seem like they don't have a personality to me. Yeah I said it

 

[Magnus]

A

As a fellow joof artist I'm also a big fan of you man. Yeah I'm drunk so what

Thank you! That means a lot.
Have a great weekend!

 

[Jetflag]

On the economic front i'm fairly libertarian leaning. So i have no problem with them doing so.

With the advent of the quote on quote "professional laptop bedroom musician" who can make a commercially selling success in whatever genre with the help of youtube tuts and illegal VST/DAW downloads chat that its not surprising to me that those who's livelyhood in part depends on this are starting to resort to this.

It went from:
- freebies
- to preset/sample packs and in some cases even custom software
- to step by step this-is-how-you-cook tutorials on the most used or popular DAW/VST software
- to...wel...this.. Why not save everybody the trouble and just sell a whole project entirely might even get a good sponsor buck in from your DAW supplier for " forcing" everyone to update to the same version/license you're using..

On the artistic front well...there's selling out and there's selling. This to me is just selling.

As for oversaturating the competition I don't think there's much to worry about. I mean lets face it...its hardly the type of person with the mindset so lazy as to just purchase a full project from his musical Senpai that is ever going to be a real competive threat to him/her on the creative front in the music industry me thinks.

my 2 cents.

 

[Bobby Summa]

Jetflag has entered. The voice of reason has spoken.

 

[Manofearth]

Is it any different from rock, where the guitar tabs are shared online? If you own the same guitar you can replicate exactly what someone else’s sound. That’s never been an issue

 

[Jetflag]

If you own the same guitar you can replicate exactly what someone else’s sound.

well you would also need to own that person's brain and muscles, but I see your point.