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Gagi

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Yesterday was a dark day for women in the USA
With no federal-level protections on abortion, the USA is now effectively a Christian state with abortion restrictions more extreme than almost all the other countries in the world.
Didn't the rule just delegate the power to individual states (so, for instance, in Cali you could have them, and in Arizona you could not)? Not sure if I read the news right.
 

dmgtz96

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Didn't the rule just delegate the power to individual states (so, for instance, in Cali you could have them, and in Arizona you could not)? Not sure if I read the news right.
Yes, but you should immediately see what's wrong with that. Women in some states will have access to abortion, yes, but what about the women in red states that are outright banning abortion? Do you expect them to travel to blue states where abortion is still legal?
The women most affected by this ruling are women of color working low-wage jobs, or that are not working at all. They don't have the money to travel to blue states. Further, the money argument is moot if the red states pass laws that arrest women for seeking out-of-state abortions.

edit: for context, a local flight round-trip that takes maybe 1.5 - 2 hours tops costs $350 (285 pounds), without any ugprades, bags, or anything fancy. And in a country the size of the US, you need to fly unless you want to do a 12 hr+ bus ride... which is not that much cheaper than $350 anyways
 
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Gagi

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Yes, but you should immediately see what's wrong with that. Women in some states will have access to abortion, yes, but what about the women in red states that are outright banning abortion? Do you expect them to travel to blue states where abortion is still legal?
The women most affected by this ruling are women of color working low-wage jobs, or that are not working at all. They don't have the money to travel to blue states. Further, the money argument is moot if the red states pass laws that arrest women for seeking out-of-state abortions.

edit: for context, a local flight round-trip that takes maybe 1.5 - 2 hours tops costs $350 (285 pounds), without any ugprades, bags, or anything fancy. And in a country the size of the US, you need to fly unless you want to do a 12 hr+ bus ride... which is not that much cheaper than $350 anyways
Yeah yeah, no argument there. This was just for (my own) understanding and clarification, it's not all women. That isn't to say the issue is minimized or not as severe because of that detail.
 
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dmgtz96

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Yeah yeah, no argument there. This was just for (my own) understanding and clarification, it's not all women. That isn't to say the issue is minimized or not as severe because of that detail.
Oh, no problem! Glad to have helped you understand.
 
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Progrez

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Religion should be BANNED - The religious groups run the world you don't have any freedom and when you think you do they take it away from you and make you feel guilty or become a slave to fictitious or imaginary deity or being and something that was created out of people's asses. Religious mantras or prayers are nothing more psychological brainwashing into doing positive affirmation on a daily routine.
 
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dmgtz96

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I have to say that not all religions do, but it's never good to impose religious morality on others, and there should be a clear separation between church and state (that is not happening in the US right now).
Catholicism and evangelical christianity are the worst in the US.
Far-right christian nationalism needs to be gone, like yesterday.
 
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LostLegend

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Roe vs Wade is the bedrock of so many important rulings. Abortion rights, right for same sex marriages (even same sex relationships were legalised using Roe vs Wade I believe?), contraceptive rights and inter-racial marriages.

Those Christian nationalist loonies over there will be coming for all of that and more.

What an awful situation the US is backing itself into :(
 

LostLegend

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Roe vs Wade is the bedrock of so many important rulings. Abortion rights, right for same sex marriages (even same sex relationships were legalised using Roe vs Wade I believe?), contraceptive rights and inter-racial marriages.

Those Christian nationalist loonies over there will be coming for all of that and more.

What an awful situation the US is backing itself into :(

I mean, not even trying to hide it at this point.
 
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dmgtz96

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I mean, not even trying to hide it at this point.
It's always been an open secret that the Republicans in power are some racist mfers who would immediately turn the US into a white Christofascist state if they were allowed to. I'm not talking about average Joe Republican, just about the powers that be.
Of course, any criticism toward these high-powered Republicans is dismissed as "woke," an attack on free speech and is accused of dividing the country.
 

jetflag

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Yes, but you should immediately see what's wrong with that.
you should also immediately see what's right with that or at the very least a silver lining.

Where the USA instead of the Republic of individual states it is now where Federal and State powers are clearly seperated, a single nationstate ala say.. Brazil or China under full "Republicofashist" rule, Any ban on abortion would be nation wide no exceptions.

So be carefull what you wish for when wanting your federal government to intervene at your behalf and thinking it will always do so as opposed to say, intervening on behalf of the WBC. at least they don't have to move to another country, as is the frequent case in African nations, with passports visa's etc. to get a safe abortion which is miles more difficult then getting a plane or bus tickets, of which there are actually charity programs. (and you can bet there's going to be even more of those now)

As for your average American, including the demographics you mentioned, @Gagi is right in the sense nothing much if anything has changed. In States like Wisconsin, Arkansas and Alabama abortion already is illegal and you would have to either do it illegally or travel to a nearby State. (There's around 8 or 9 I think that have pre-roe laws still in place?)

What happened here is a correction in Federal v State power. Even Ruth Bader Ginsburg understood the significance of this.

What I find appaling is not that federal and state powers are (again) clearly and consitently seperated, or at the very least more. What I find appaling is that there are still states who do not respect the bodily integrity of individuals. Thats where the changes need to be made, not in DC.

Same goes for things like affordable healthcare in general, local policing etc.
 
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dmgtz96

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What I find appaling is not that federal and state powers are (again) clearly and consitently seperated, or at the very least more. What I find appaling is that there are still states who do not respect the bodily integrity of individuals. Thats where the changes need to be made, not in DC.
At the end of the day, this is what matters, and it's an awful situation for the women living in those states. The most affected are the disenfranchised, and then they might not even be able to navigate (or be aware of) the resources set up for them should they ever need to get an abortion in a different state. If the states pass laws that criminalize residents for getting abortions in legal states, that will also make the discussion about money moot.
 
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dmgtz96

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It goes without saying that "other women in the world have it worse" is not an argument for or against the Supreme Court's decision
 
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jetflag

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At the end of the day, this is what matters, and it's an awful situation for the women living in those states. The most affected are the disenfranchised, and then they might not even be able to navigate (or be aware of) the resources set up for them should they ever need to get an abortion in a different state. If the states pass laws that criminalize residents for getting abortions in legal states, that will also make the discussion about money moot.
Oh yeah it's an absolute travesty.. that situation however just doesn't have much to do with roe v Wade. Which for 50 years was defacto nothing but symbolic there seen the way the US is set up. For every "yes but the federal government.." argument in a court in Arkansas, the defense simply went: "not their business see constitution" (in a nutshell). So it was in that sense pretty useless.

It also doesn't have much to do with republicans v democrats tribalism. Like said..plenty of progressive Dems who see the Merritt in their state affairs regarding health not being dictated by whoever sits in DC

Change needs to happen on a state level.. that's where you need to get your senators/ judges in place to get abortion & healthcare in general fixed.
 
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dmgtz96

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Oh yeah it's an absolute travesty.. that situation however just doesn't have much to do with roe v Wade. Which for 50 years was defacto nothing but symbolic there seen the way the US is set up. For every "yes but the federal government.." argument in a court in Arkansas, the defense simply went: "not their business see constitution" (in a nutshell). So it was in that sense pretty useless.

It also doesn't have much to do with republicans v democrats tribalism. Like said..plenty of progressive Dems who see the Merritt in their state affairs regarding health not being dictated by whoever sits in DC

Change needs to happen on a state level.. that's where you need to get your senators/ judges in place to get abortion & healthcare in general fixed.
Right, the original way Roe v Wade was set up was not bulletproof (since abortion was not set up as a a constitutional amendment, and it will never be). So at the federal level it will never be protected.
What are your thoughts on blue states not cooperating with red states in abortion investigations? In other words, if someone from a red state travels to a blue state to get an abortion, the blue state will do absolutely nothing to help the red state prosecute that person.
 

jetflag

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What are your thoughts on blue states not cooperating with red states in abortion investigations? In other words, if someone from a red state travels to a blue state to get an abortion, the blue state will do absolutely nothing to help the red state prosecute that person.
1 word:

Good
 
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dmgtz96

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So glad we have found the silver lining in the abortion ban.
Well, another silver lining is the corporate support for their employees. My employer, a fairly large F500 company, quickly sent out an email stating that they would ensure employees can receive proper health care, as did Dick's Sporting Goods and other employers.
I know for a fact that I will never ever work under Meta/Facebook (banned conversations with respect to the Supreme Court) or small employers whose leadership is all middle-aged white men who supported the Supreme Court's decision.
"How did your company react to the Supreme Court's decision with respect to abortion?" will also become a perfectly valid interview question. If the answer is anything less than, "we are committed to providing healthcare to our employees / established a fund to pay for employees' out-of-state expenses," that is not an employer I want to work for.

... but I guess this is a somewhat privileged perspective, in an industry that rarely lays off people even during recessions or COVID, whose experienced engineers are always in demand.
 
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jetflag

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Like any significant and long lasting change.. bottom up is usually the way to go. Top down especially big gov top down with it's "very successful" history of central planning, has a lot lower succes rate
 
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jetflag

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Turing test failed afaic. Took me al but 3 seconds to recognize the difference between that responds and how a genuine human.