Elements of Trance (WIP)- Bobby Summa

Bobby Summa

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Sep 7, 2022
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Got up 5am and made a start on this with a new work method. Copy and pasted a Slipstream track to my daw as reference.
@Archon @Daysleeper @jetflag . If you fancy listening its at 1m 10 seconds currently.
 
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Archon

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Curious to see where this leads. Once the production is more substantial I could tell you what can be improved. But do keep working on it and improving!
 
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Archon

Gagi
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Starting to develop a bit. Liking the bassline, however I'd probably build up to it a bit more here, play it in full force after 60 seconds or so. Wonder if you can play around with that synth that plays throughout, maybe introduce some variety, effects?
 
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Bobby Summa

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Same length but with alterations to bass note length (at certain times), attack on bass made smoother, & slight bass fitler automation. Intro hi pitched arp automation of phaser fx. A few higher note intervals of mid arp melody loop.
Note, bass synth vst Dune3 was mucking about and subsequently had to start 2 or 3 notes just a fraction later. - will find out how to fix soon ( hardly noticeable but evident none the less)
 

Bobby Summa

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Sep 7, 2022
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Did quite a bit of development & arranging plus filer automating etc. Plus a new sound. A vox

4mins long now.
On reflection im Thinking of dropping the vox when melody comes in at 2.05 and reintroducing 16/32 bars later.
Sorry to bother you guys@Archon @Hensmon @erickUO
@jetflag @Magnevi @Daysleeper @Recharge @LostLegend @Magdelayna @unitedtrancedivision .
Hows the structure / ingredients/ arrangement to you?
Edit:
- I keep listening thinking I have structured it to a different genre. Good for uplifting trance perhaps but the track im making isn’t quite that genre, or is in areas? I feel it might need a longer beginning build somehow but with special fx and short fill interludes on the way. Perhaps even the melody at 2.05 coming in significantly earlier. If im correct about the genre type, do you know a tune i could use as a reference etc? ( ive been using Slipstream - Everything is Temporary but think its possibly a different feel of track.
 
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erickUO

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Jul 13, 2020
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- Structure
It's a bit unclear to me. Where did the intro ended? Where did the main track really started? After the 1st breakdown? Or somewhere in between 0.00 - 1.35?

- Ingredients & Arrangements
The track really starts to take shape from the 1st breakdown. But before it, I don't get a sense where the track is going. With this uplifing-ish style, in my opinion the main homework is about building tension, which need to be worked on further in this track.

- Overall
I don't think this track is for me. But I like the bassline rhythm before first breakdown, if this was my track, I would play around with it or develop the track in contrast with it. Also, I know you've been struggling with structure, but your Entrance to Nirvana has no structure issues to me, the issue is in the tension instead. And hearing your previous tracks, I think the atmospheric-jammin'-enjoy the moment kind of tracks is your strength. Your Afri Dance is actually good!
 
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Bobby Summa

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Thank you man. Yes ive been wandering about intro part too. Im trying not to do long intros like i used to as i used to go on far too long in terms of trance. But i have been thinking theres no marker as to where the main section is starting. I kinda think its on the synth melody after the kickless section mid way at this point ( and probably too late in the track) section but yep still all a bit wrong in terms of the times certain sounds are added etc. I have been considering getting rid of certain sounds / melodies and putting in something that is more clearly definable for the narrative of the song.

Thank you for your comments on my other tracks. I actually have a new friend from Eritrea, Africa who chants and sings which i started Afri Dance for just as a quick idea. I may put it in a thread on this forum at some point.

————
‘Entrance to Nirvana’

see link to forum thread here. Bobby Summa - Entrance To Nirvana and if anyone wants to comment on it who is reading this please do so on its individual thread ( not on this ‘Elements of Trance’ thread as will get confusing)

Regarding ‘Entrance to Nirvana’
- I actually think what everyone on here said about it so far correct. As a trance track it doesn’t follow the narrative for it but as a track that free style or ambient dance, it has a few good elements and, yes, needs something like improved tension.
- Yesterday i suddenly remembered when i added certain sounds , my thought level behind it and realised @Archon was completely right. I was so blown away by a few individual sounds I found on a synth that i hadn’t considered enough if they fit. Took their individual quality too importantly rather than whether they actually work in the track. I may alter filters on the ones i think are too un fitting and see what it sounds like.
————

Incidentally I didn’t put latest version of this particular threads ‘Elements of Trance’ here yet but will below. My Soundcloud page is getting cluttered so ive put all other versions as private so wont work as the track path name programming thing on Soundcloud alters. I’ve altered the times a little and done more automation for tension, but think structure or intro to main part is still lacking.
 
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Bobby Summa

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Couple of little changes here and there,
and a new melody and sound in the interlude/kickless section in the middle. I definitely think there aren’t enough narrative markers yet, which i aim to fix. Maybe il drop the vox earlier and alter the notes/melody it has, so that it makes more of a point the intro ends, and defines the narrative more clearly, then not continue it in the track. ( maybe it can come as part of an outro when i get further in the track making process. . Il experiment with it soon. I want to try the track without the kick being from the start if i can prevent a 3 minute intro which i often get completely carried away on. Its not too hard rearranging this track as aren’t too many DAW tracks used. On Entrance to nirvana ( my other recent track wip,) there’s about 80 there and its too confusing ( so il fix that too as realy inhibiting arranging aspects of a track when daw tracks are everywhere.

My soundcloud page is getting very cluttered recently so for now all other versions of this track are private links. The versions posted above until this version wont work anymore, but if anyone wants me to repost them i can .

 
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Bobby Summa

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Did more work on it just now. ( early morning often good music production time)

Better intro guys ? ( hats too loud I believe but easy fix). Arrangement any better? ( maybe extend section after intro so beat section is longer and interval without kick comes in a bit later)

might try bringing melody currently at 2 mins to judt after 1 min as intro ends and beat / kick, bassline starts

Thanks to those listening and giving feedback. So much appreciated 🫶

 
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Archon

Gagi
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That bassline is giving me strong Arksun vibes, I like it! However, it is missing some low-end oomph. I like how this track is shaping up (and, as always, curious to see where it goes from here).
 
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Bobby Summa

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That bassline is giving me strong Arksun vibes, I like it! However, it is missing some low-end oomph. I like how this track is shaping up (and, as always, curious to see where it goes from here).
Thank you mate. Arksun is super cool. Yeah i plan to add a sound to assist the bass. Just bought cherry audio synths, one is a moog the other an Arp, the other a Korg MS20 emulator ( all cherry audio analog synth emulators) Im interested to see how either the MS 20 or Moog sound for bottom end assistance & added tone character. Or theres my ‘real’ analog Basstation 2 with Lots of Oooomph. Plus my big ASM Hydrasynth. But, il just try not to flood the sound. May be bedt just to up the bass eq frequencies and leave it at that to not alter the character there much.

So you think the arrangement ( in particular where the bass comes in with kick and percussion is ok yeah? Plus the build from then to the quiter ( breakdown type section) . Sounding better/long enough build?

Cheers.
 
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Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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interresting, but you have to answer me one question m8,

why, o why, do you insist on having an minimum 1 minute (!) long ambient intro in all of your songs? :p
 

Bobby Summa

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Sep 7, 2022
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interresting, but you have to answer me one question m8,

why, o why, do you insist on having an minimum 1 minute (!) long ambient intro in all of your songs? :p
Hi mate, here are my thoughts on intros. I do actually want to write some trance which has a kick from the start.

- Right, my thoughts (and ramblings) on why i love intros 🤪

Basically I just love music which takes the listener on a total journey. Im not saying I myself achieve it in the way i want with tracks i make, (but its my aim). The tracks i like the most from the scene for example in the 90s did this. Thing is, they weren’t all Trance like it is today as such. But certainly took ones imagination as well as their more ‘inner self’ on an expansive journey. You have to start gentle on your inner self as it has to be vulnerable, and trust, in order to be flexible enough to travel…. No one likes to wake up by being punched in the head. Gentle is best.

I think an intro introduces that journey gently and prepares the listener for what is to come. Like starting a day.

They can encourage a range off feelings for a listener if there are different atmospheric types, or different amounts of different sounds going on at either the same or different times. But there has to be a relation to them. After an intro if a producer can pull off putting a hard beat to aspects of that gentle start whilst adding other parts of the ingredients in ones journey then it ( if done right) makes a whole and varied picture throughout. A bit like a book. (As there becomes a lengthy narrative guiding your exploration)

Intro’s are also like a license to create whatever atmosphere you want, a backdrop without any heavy sounds ( like big kick or hats etc) taking over the frequency’s of sounds used. The atmosphere is clearer in a sense, and down to the listener to interpret and engage as they wish through whatever emotions are brought about from within them.

When a painter paints a picture, they begin with just making a few shapes, shades and colours. It then develops and takes shape and when completed can be a completely varied collage of related atmospheres.

I must admit, all that is not usually much help to a DJ when selecting records though apart from for the 1st track he plays ‘unless when the beat does start, the track picks up in an appropriate way’

(This track’s earlier versions actually all started with a kick and the beat and melody grew along side it, but just the above version doesn’t)
 
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Jetflag

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Hi mate, here are my thoughts on intros. I do actually want to write some trance which has a kick from the start.

- Right, my thoughts (and ramblings) on why i love intros 🤪

Basically I just love music which takes the listener on a total journey. Im not saying I myself achieve it in the way i want with tracks i make, (but its my aim). The tracks i like the most from the scene for example in the 90s did this. Thing is, they weren’t all Trance like it is today as such. But certainly took ones imagination as well as their more ‘inner self’ on an expansive journey. You have to start gentle on your inner self as it has to be vulnerable, and trust, in order to be flexible enough to travel…. No one likes to wake up by being punched in the head. Gentle is best.

I think an intro introduces that journey gently and prepares the listener for what is to come. Like starting a day.

They can encourage a range off feelings for a listener if there are different atmospheric types, or different amounts of different sounds going on at either the same or different times. But there has to be a relation to them. After an intro if a producer can pull off putting a hard beat to aspects of that gentle start whilst adding other parts of the ingredients in ones journey then it ( if done right) makes a whole and varied picture throughout. A bit like a book. (As there becomes a lengthy narrative guiding your exploration)

Intro’s are also like a license to create whatever atmosphere you want, a backdrop without any heavy sounds ( like big kick or hats etc) taking over the frequency’s of sounds used. The atmosphere is clearer in a sense, and down to the listener to interpret and engage as they wish through whatever emotions are brought about from within them.

When a painter paints a picture, they begin with just making a few shapes, shades and colours. It then develops and takes shape and when completed can be a completely varied collage of related atmospheres.

I must admit, all that is not usually much help to a DJ when selecting records though apart from for the 1st track he plays ‘unless when the beat does start, the track picks up in an appropriate way’

(This track’s earlier versions actually all started with a kick and the beat and melody grew along side it, but just the above version doesn’t)
Noice. 👍🙏
 
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Bobby Summa

Senior Member
Sep 7, 2022
949 Posts
707 Thanked
Age
47
Brighton UK
Website
soundcloud.app.goo.gl
@Hensmon @jetflag @Archon @Daysleeper @erickUO
@Progrez @LostLegend @Katadunkass @Recharge
@Magnevi @Magdelayna

sorry to tag all you guys…listen if you feel inclined but don’t worry too much if not.

Big changes and developments made in this

 
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