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Bobby Summa

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The basic problem with humanity is that it is ignorantly hell bent on selfishness. Thats why communism won’t work.

Everyone I’ve ever talked to about how the world could be fixed thinks i don’t make sense . But it’s weird, because im sure im right .

All thats needed is every individual to care about others a lot more. Like a fuck ton more. This combined with using their dormant intelligence. No war would exist with that approach. But people are stupid enough ‘not’ to realise just doing just that, makes them feel better too. Amazing infact.

I won’t mention the ingredient needed. I’m sure you guys know it. That most missunderstood ingredient in life.
 
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Jetflag

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The basic problem with humanity is that it is ignorantly hell bent on selfishness. Thats why communism won’t work.

Everyone I’ve ever talked to about how the world could be fixed thinks i don’t make sense . But it’s weird, because im sure im right .

All thats needed is every individual to care about others a lot more. Like a fuck ton more. This combined with using their dormant intelligence. No war would exist with that approach. But people are stupid enough ‘not’ to realise just doing just that, makes them feel better too. Amazing infact.

I won’t mention the ingredient needed. I’m sure you guys know it. That most missunderstood ingredient in life.
It’s not even just that. Humanity..like all nature. Is intrinsically hierarchical. You can push, promote or force empathy or selflessness till the sea dries up, it still won’t make “real socialism” or “real communism” work. Because of emerging hierarchies.

since Marx’s brain farts seek to eradicate those in favor of “equality” you’re going to get a natural backlash and are always going to end up with even more toxic hierarchies, namely dictatorships/feudalist societies where “the great leader” (ea top of the hierarchy) is untouchable and owns 99%.

you cannot re-program this. It is so deep that even insects have hierarchical structures, all of nature has. And so communism will never, ever work 🤷‍♂️

maybe for 10iq machines, but that’s it.
 
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Bobby Summa

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It’s not even just that. Humanity..like all nature. Is intrinsically hierarchical. You can push, promote or force empathy or selflessness till the sea dries up, it still won’t make “real socialism” or “real communism” work. Because of emerging hierarchies.

since Marx’s brain farts seek to eradicate those in favor of “equality” you’re going to get a natural backlash and are always going to end up with even more toxic hierarchies, namely dictatorships/feudalist societies where “the great leader” (ea top of the hierarchy) is untouchable and owns 99%.

you cannot re-program this. It is so deep that even insects have hierarchical structures, all of nature has. And so communism will never, ever work 🤷‍♂️

maybe for 10iq machines, but that’s it.
Nature / animals lack things that humans have though. Conscious effort. The ability to choose in a certain way and not just operate from an instinctive (base) nature. Humans are the only things on this planet capable of a kind of discretion due to how we are built. It’s much more than discretion tho. it’s being able to be fully conciously aware. Animals will just follow prime level instincts most of if not all of the time. Survival is their main / only influencing energy. Humans are capable of much more than that but many are too unaware of how to incorporate such potential as most just listen to that base instinct. Hierarchy etc, or what people’s minds are pulled towards is led by a lower pull than Love. They don’t have to listen to it as we are capable of a more intelligent and greater power. People are just too often ignorant. Take the easy way. Then suffer.
 
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Jetflag

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Nature / animals lack things that humans have though. Conscious effort. The ability to choose in a certain way and not just operate from an instinctive (base) nature. Humans are the only things on this planet capable of a kind of discretion due to how we are built. It’s much more than discretion tho. it’s being able to be fully conciously aware. Animals will just follow prime level instincts most of if not all of the time. Survival is their main / only influencing energy. Humans are capable of much more than that but many are too unaware of how to incorporate such potential as most just listen to that base instinct. Hierarchy etc, or what people’s minds are pulled towards is led by a lower pull than Love. They don’t have to listen to it as we are capable of a more intelligent and greater power. People are just too often ignorant. Take the easy way. Then suffer.
Plenty of animals have conscious/ concious effort, elephants, dolphins, crows, gorilla’s etc. Humanity is no exception in this.

we are among the more/most intelligent which singles us out. However, our intelligence is overwritten/ dictated by our prime instincts. Our neocortex might appear to the rider in control, but the minute our “elephant” amygdala lizard brain kicks in, it’s out the window with rationality and/or, and this is important: future planning/visions

Side note concerning “love” There’s actually a good case to be made that love is a self-ish act. Not a self-less one. 😉

In any case:
concious efford alone will not bring about communism. (Demonstrably I might add)
 
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Bobby Summa

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Plenty of animals have conscious/ concious effort, elephants, dolphins, crows, gorilla’s etc. Humanity is no exception in this.

we are among the more/most intelligent which singles us out. However, our intelligence is overwritten/ dictated by our prime instincts. Our neocortex might appear to the rider in control, but the minute our “elephant” amygdala lizard brain kicks in, it’s out the window with rationality and/or, and this is important: future planning/visions

Side note concerning “love” There’s actually a good case to be made that love is a self-ish act. Not a self-less one. 😉

In any case:
concious efford alone will not bring about communism. (Demonstrably I might add)
Fair point about animals and conscious effort. But humans are capable of doing a lot more with it to affect others distinguishingly.
I have heard of this Love as a selfish thing. I do understand what you mean. Have you condsidered that yes, if one chooses love it ‘can’ be a selfish reason. But if one just generates it through being a develop soul or ‘whatever’ it happens by (something I can’t think of that sounds less pretentious to some maybe)... It isn’t selfish it’s just often (but not always unless a soul is fully developed) a natural occurrence.

So. On reflection… the main issue is. Hardly any souls are fully developed and thus still operate too much on an instict base survival level. Consider Buddha. He ended up realising the frailty of this, from all accounts.
 
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SleepyBuddah

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There are more factors involved than only intelligence, instinct, ignorance etc. to understand why humanity is the way it is. First of all there is individuality as no matter what, we are all unique. Second there is a cultural aspect that also has a great influence on human behaviour. Also you can divide the human consciousness, psyche, mind or you want to call it in to 3 categories....Id, Ego and Super Ego.

Id is the very basis of our consciousness and is what drives our instincts and is the source of our bodily needs, wants, impulses, aggressive and sexual drives. It's an unconscious thing which is there when we are born.
Our Ego derives from our Id. It determents' the way how we express all those things. It's heavily influenced by Id and Super Ego.
Super Ego comes from all the external influences like parents, family, society and culture.

I myself rather look to humanity on a spiritual level, therefor it's easier for me to understand why people behave the way they do.
 
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Bobby Summa

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There are more factors involved than only intelligence, instinct, ignorance etc. to understand why humanity is the way it is. First of all there is individuality as no matter what, we are all unique. Second there is a cultural aspect that also has a great influence on human behaviour. Also you can divide the human consciousness, psyche, mind or you want to call it in to 3 categories....Id, Ego and Super Ego.

Id is the very basis of our consciousness and is what drives our instincts and is the source of our bodily needs, wants, impulses, aggressive and sexual drives. It's an unconscious thing which is there when we are born.
Our Ego derives from our Id. It determents' the way how we express all those things. It's heavily influenced by Id and Super Ego.
Super Ego comes from all the external influences like parents, family, society and culture.
Freud had a good way of seeing things.

I don’t know if it’s my strong optimistic streak or just a true inner feeling but I do feel there is a power that can override much of this once developed. Something that is a seed in many but a flower already in some. Unconscious generated Love. Unconscious because it’s more a state of being.
 
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SleepyBuddah

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Freud had a good way of seeing things.

I don’t know if it’s my strong optimistic streak or just a true inner feeling but I do feel there is a power that can override much of this once developed. Something that is a seed in many but a flower already in some. Unconscious generated Love.
He really did.

I've read quite some things from Freud when I recovered from my burn out trying to understand more about the the human mind works. It gave me lots of information and I learned a lot.

Maybe it balanced things out in my sub-consciousness and consciousness in the way I look upon life in general. But I prefer the spiritual look on life.
 
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Jetflag

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Fair point about animals and conscious effort. But humans are capable of doing a lot more with it to affect others distinguishingly.
we/they are. we are in essence to the point now where we are sheperds of nature. or at the very least sheperds of earth life. But the fact that humans are capable of that doesn't mean that humans are capable changing or reprogramming of their own intrinsic nature, at least not internally pur sang.

to get back the Borg analogy..I think that might be the only option to achieve Marx's utopian vision for " humanity". Get rid of humanity, and lobotimize every human being to then use machine/synthetic/computer parts to turn them into Servitors to act in accord towards the platonic " equality" ideal that Socialism/Communism strives to.


Have you condsidered that yes, if one chooses love it ‘can’ be a selfish reason. But if one just generates it through being a develop soul or ‘whatever’ it happens by (something I can’t think of that sounds less pretentious to some maybe)... It isn’t selfish it’s just often (but not always unless a soul is fully developed) a natural occurrence. So. On reflection… the main issue is. Hardly any souls are fully developed and thus still operate too much on an instict base survival level. Consider Buddha. He ended up realising the frailty of this, from all accounts.
no, but thats because I don't think we " choose" love, so to speak... Love, like Belief, is a compulsion. Beyond the realm of choice.

I don't love the people I love or the music i'm involved in because i conciously choose to... Am i compelled to love, or fall in love, without concious efford and/or control.

what I do agree with is that, when a human mind/soul reaches maturity, " love" becomes more sophisticated and less driven by, for instance, pure hedonistic impulses. but the complexity is irrelevant to the basic mechanism that drives it. You can be as " soulfully" developed as the Buddah or beyond...But the mechanism is still (selfish) instinct first. -> rest later.

again, the only way you will see " real" communism or something resembling the sort, is to erase humanity, and turn them into robots basically.
 

Jetflag

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There are more factors involved than only intelligence, instinct, ignorance etc. to understand why humanity is the way it is. First of all there is individuality as no matter what, we are all unique. Second there is a cultural aspect that also has a great influence on human behaviour. Also you can divide the human consciousness, psyche, mind or you want to call it in to 3 categories....Id, Ego and Super Ego.

Id is the very basis of our consciousness and is what drives our instincts and is the source of our bodily needs, wants, impulses, aggressive and sexual drives. It's an unconscious thing which is there when we are born.
Our Ego derives from our Id. It determents' the way how we express all those things. It's heavily influenced by Id and Super Ego.
Super Ego comes from all the external influences like parents, family, society and culture.

I myself rather look to humanity on a spiritual level, therefor it's easier for me to understand why people behave the way they do.
yup, I agree. Add those to the list why Marx's/Hegel's philosophies, even though they got some things right I think, Won't work as a system for homo-sapiens.
 

SleepyBuddah

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we/they are. we are in essence to the point now where we are sheperds of nature. or at the very least sheperds of earth life. But the fact that humans are capable of that doesn't mean that humans are capable changing or reprogramming of their own intrinsic nature, at least not internally pur sang.

to get back the Borg analogy..I think that might be the only option to achieve Marx's utopian vision for " humanity". Get rid of humanity, and lobotimize every human being to then use machine/synthetic/computer parts to turn them into Servitors to act in accord towards the platonic " equality" ideal that Socialism/Communism strives to.



no, but thats because I don't think we " choose" love, so to speak... Love, like Belief, is a compulsion. Beyond the realm of choice.

I don't love the people I love or the music i'm involved in because i conciously choose to... Am i compelled to love, or fall in love, without concious efford and/or control.

what I do agree with is that, when a human mind/soul reaches maturity, " love" becomes more sophisticated and less driven by, for instance, pure hedonistic impulses. but the complexity is irrelevant to the basic mechanism that drives it. You can be as " soulfully" developed as the Buddah or beyond...But the mechanism is still (selfish) instinct first. -> rest later.

In fact we are "borrowing" planet Earth and we are indeed her shepards. Humans are capable to create and to destroy.
That does bring us back to the Borg analogy of creation and destruction and thus back to Marx indeed.

Being able to "love" as a human being (a lot of other animals included), derives from our instinct of reproduction and raising offspring.
But what makes us different in comparison with animals is that we are "evolved" to a level where we choose our mates based on much more factors than only finding the mate with the best genetics.
Love as in a spiritual or soulful way is a different kind of love.
again, the only way you will see " real" communism or something resembling the sort, is to erase humanity, and turn them into robots basically.

Well the erase humanity part has already started by people who have a very communistic way of thinking.

yup, I agree. Add those to the list why Marx's/Hegel's philosophies, even though they got some things right I think, Won't work as a system for homo-sapiens.
There will always be overlapping things. You could call Marx and Hegel narrow minded in that regard.
 
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Jetflag

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But what makes us different in comparison with animals is that we are "evolved" to a level where we choose our mates based on much more factors than only finding the mate with the best genetics.
Love as in a spiritual or soulful way is a different kind of love.
I would argue that yes, it’s more sophisticated/complex, but the base-drive, which is the one that releases endorphins and dopamine in the brain when loving (any kind ranging from lowest to platonic) is still the same. The internal reward mechanism has not changed.
 

Jetflag

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Actually no, the way your brain rewards remains the same, regardless of age