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Br8k L3gnd

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Oh, don't get me wrong. Men today face legit problems in society, but that doesn't mean you should become a misogynist, racist white-supremacist.
The fact that you have a wife and daughter means you're in a better position than literally all of these guys.
Be careful about the narrative on false rape accusations. They're not common, but the Internet would have you think that they happen daily. That's not true.
False rape is very common. I had it happen to me in high school, and thank god that the home had cameras outside. Back then, if there was no proof, I was going to jail for sure. The way the cop treated me even after the video was disturbing. 12th grade year and that is what I remember. They broke my constitutional rights by arresting me before investigating. It was a terrible experience that made me end up leaving that area. I think a false claim should hold the same punishment as a real one.

White supremacy is something I have never witnessed. I was told the other day that the American system is systemically racist. Do you know how odd that is? We have had civil rights since the 1960's. 60 years of laws stating no discrimination. We had a black president, black general, black mayor, black congress, and so on. That guy was trying to convince me that after all that, systemic racism is real in America. Its factually untrue by every metric. I would go as far to say racism only exist to those who want it to. Look into the Jussie Smolliet case.

Ill be honest and tell you we have a major mental health issue.
1981

The Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 (MHSA) was United States legislation signed by President Jimmy Carter which provided grants to community mental health centers. In 1981 President Ronald Reagan and the U.S. Congress repealed most of the law. The MHSA was considered landmark legislation in mental health care policy.

By them removing this help, it caused a huge downward spiral. I have no issue with my fellow man or women, but I do not trust the government.
 
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dmgtz96

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False rape is very common. I had it happen to me in high school, and thank god that the home had cameras outside. Back then, if there was no proof, I was going to jail for sure. The way the cop treated me even after the video was disturbing. 12th grade year and that is what I remember. They broke my constitutional rights by arresting me before investigating. It was a terrible experience that made me end up leaving that area. I think a false claim should hold the same punishment as a real one.
I'm not sure if "very common," but damn that's super scary to go through. It's never happened to me, and I don't know anyone in real life who has been accused falsely even after spending 4-5 years in college. When it does happen, the consequences will be dire for the falsely accused, which is something we need to fix as a society.
White supremacy is something I have never witnessed. I was told the other day that the American system is systemically racist. Do you know how odd that is? We have had civil rights since the 1960's. 60 years of laws stating no discrimination. We had a black president, black general, black mayor, black congress, and so on. That guy was trying to convince me that after all that, systemic racism is real in America. Its factually untrue by every metric. I would go as far to say racism only exist to those who want it to. Look into the Jussie Smolliet case.
Most of this is too complex for me to comment on, but I would like to share the WSJ op-ed by Harvey C. Mansfield, a conservative professor from Harvard. He breaks down well why systemic racism is a paradox. I think, for you, it would be helpful to consider the author's comment at the end:
“Systemic racism” is a bogus description that issues in an accusation made in doubtful faith that contradicts itself. But it is held by many fellow Americans, so let’s not dismiss it. It’s better to treat it respectfully as a disputable opinion.
Now, you might have never noticed white supremacy in your life, but it's very real. One of the biggest evidences in recent memory is the Unite the Right rally from 2017, which had an impact on some of my coworkers that lived in Charlottesville, VA at the time.

Ill be honest and tell you we have a major mental health issue.
1981

The Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 (MHSA) was United States legislation signed by President Jimmy Carter which provided grants to community mental health centers. In 1981 President Ronald Reagan and the U.S. Congress repealed most of the law. The MHSA was considered landmark legislation in mental health care policy.

By them removing this help, it caused a huge downward spiral. I have no issue with my fellow man or women, but I do not trust the government.
Yep, that was a bad move by Reagan. We need better mental health resources and better safeguards against false rape accusations and unfair divorce settlements. At the same time, that does not mean any of us should become white supremacists, misogynists, or racists.
 
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Br8k L3gnd

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I'm not sure if "very common," but damn that's super scary to go through. It's never happened to me, and I don't know anyone in real life who has been accused falsely even after spending 4-5 years in college. When it does happen, the consequences will be dire for the falsely accused, which is something we need to fix as a society.

Most of this is too complex for me to comment on, but I would like to share the WSJ op-ed by Harvey C. Mansfield, a conservative professor from Harvard. He breaks down well why systemic racism is a paradox. I think, for you, it would be helpful to consider the author's comment at the end:

Now, you might have never noticed white supremacy in your life, but it's very real. One of the biggest evidences in recent memory is the Unite the Right rally from 2017, which had an impact on some of my coworkers that lived in Charlottesville, VA at the time.


Yep, that was a bad move by Reagan. We need better mental health resources and better safeguards against false rape accusations and unfair divorce settlements. At the same time, that does not mean any of us should become white supremacists, misogynists, or raci
That rights to rally is crazy! Thanks for sharing. I personally am a white male living in a black farm community and race is never been an issue. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen and I don't like that right to rally in order to dismiss any color. That is wrong.

I do not think that bad things happening forces anyone to become supremacist, racists, or misogynist though. I agree it should not cause that.

Bro, the rape thing is crazy. I actually have a second story, but it wasn't as serious. So I just won't share it.

The only thing I am confused on and I hope you can address this with your own opinion: If we know that systemic racism is not true anymore, why should it still be a debatable opinion when facts speak louder?
 
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Br8k L3gnd

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I'm not sure if "very common," but damn that's super scary to go through. It's never happened to me, and I don't know anyone in real life who has been accused falsely even after spending 4-5 years in college. When it does happen, the consequences will be dire for the falsely accused, which is something we need to fix as a society.

Most of this is too complex for me to comment on, but I would like to share the WSJ op-ed by Harvey C. Mansfield, a conservative professor from Harvard. He breaks down well why systemic racism is a paradox. I think, for you, it would be helpful to consider the author's comment at the end:

Now, you might have never noticed white supremacy in your life, but it's very real. One of the biggest evidences in recent memory is the Unite the Right rally from 2017, which had an impact on some of my coworkers that lived in Charlottesville, VA at the time.


Yep, that was a bad move by Reagan. We need better mental health resources and better safeguards against false rape accusations and unfair divorce settlements. At the same time, that does not mean any of us should become white supremacists, misogynists, or racists.
You're one of the few people I have been able to chat with this about and not get offended or call names. I enjoyed that very much.
 
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dmgtz96

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The only thing I am confused on and I hope you can address this with your own opinion: If we know that systemic racism is not true anymore, why should it still be a debatable opinion when facts speak louder?
Good question. I'm not sure if we know systemic racism is or isn't real. The tik-toker that goes viral and claims that everything about the US is based on systemic racism? probably bullshitting. At the same time, how we can tell that it isn't real? Just because some conservative outlets and politicians tell you it isn't?
I hope that answers your question. More directly, systemic racism is debatable because of how hard it is to prove that it is - or isn't - real. You would need a thorough understanding of social science and enough knowledge of statistics to sort through the BS in social science studies.
You're one of the few people I have been able to chat with this about and not get offended or call names. I enjoyed that very much.
No problem!
 

Br8k L3gnd

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Good question. I'm not sure if we know systemic racism is or isn't real. The tik-toker that goes viral and claims that everything about the US is based on systemic racism? probably bullshitting. At the same time, how we can tell that it isn't real? Just because some conservative outlets and politicians tell you it isn't?
I hope that answers your question. More directly, systemic racism is debatable because of how hard it is to prove that it is - or isn't - real. You would need a thorough understanding of social science and enough knowledge of statistics to sort through the BS in social science studies.

No problem!
Systemic implies that laws are for or against a certain race. That is how we know if it is real. If the laws are against white or blacks, then the system is racist. If the laws are equal for both, then the system is not racist.
 
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dmgtz96

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Systemic implies that laws are for or against a certain race. That is how we know if it is real. If the laws are against white or blacks, then the system is racist. If the laws are equal for both, then the system is not racist.
At its core, yeah, there are no laws in the US that are for or against race.
I think the whole concept of "systemic racism" is being expanded for things outside of the legal framework that still affect particular races disproportionately. For example, home lending for Black homeowners, or SAT scores for Asian-American college applicants. Both of those are well-documented cases; Black people have a harder time securing loans for homes, and elite colleges unfairly deduct Asian-American applicants' test scores for their "holistic" review.
Hopefully we can agree in that both of those cases are racist, and something about them needs to change.
Weapons of Math Destruction goes into a bit more detail about similar problems. I've yet to read the book, but the Wiki overview is a good example of how people have been treated unfairly by, of all things, algorithms and mathematical models.* More recently, AI tools developed for job applications have been shown to be sexist and also have the potential to treat minorities unfairly (ex. HireVue facial monitoring). There's something wrong, and the solution is not easy.


*I don't think the algorithms and mathematical models are inherently racist. Math doesn't care about that. How we use them to guide decision-making, though, can be problematic and lead to inequality.
 
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Br8k L3gnd

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At its core, yeah, there are no laws in the US that are for or against race.
I think the whole concept of "systemic racism" is being expanded for things outside of the legal framework that still affect particular races disproportionately. For example, home lending for Black homeowners, or SAT scores for Asian-American college applicants. Both of those are well-documented cases; Black people have a harder time securing loans for homes, and elite colleges unfairly deduct Asian-American applicants' test scores for their "holistic" review.
Hopefully we can agree in that both of those cases are racist, and something about them needs to change.
Ill agree anything based on color is racist. If you judge someone by the color of their skin and not how they behave, you're racist. I have done no research into the black or asian claim you just mentioned so I cannot comment on that.
 
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dmgtz96

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Ill agree anything based on color is racist. If you judge someone by the color of their skin and not how they behave, you're racist. I have done no research into the black or asian claim you just mentioned so I cannot comment on that.
I just edited my comment to include Weapons of Math Destruction and AI tools for job seekers.
I won't tell you to order the book or anything, as I haven't read it, but this review explains pretty well what's wrong with the automated decision-makers that are being used today. A direct quote from the review:
.... many inappropriate ways credit scores reward the rich and punish the poor. As an example of the latter, she shares the galling statistic that “in Florida, adults with clean driving records and poor credit scores paid an average of $1552 more than the same drivers with excellent credit and a drunk driving conviction.” (Emphasis hers.)
The book isn't just about racism per se, but more about a "systemic" inequality. For "racist" examples specifically,
Recidivism models and predictive policing algorithms—programs that send officers to patrol certain locations based on crime data—are rife with the potential for harmful feedback loops. For example, a recidivism model may ask about the person’s first encounter with law enforcement. Due to racist policing practices such as stop and frisk, black people are likely to have that first encounter earlier than white people. If the model takes this measure into account, it will probably deem a black person more likely.
I think people claiming the existence of "systemic racism" are kind of shooting themselves in the foot. We should broaden the definition to "systemic inequality," which should be pretty easy to find all around us.
 

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so...
r/jordanpeterson has a huge overlap with center and right-leaning subreddits: see here

Jordan Peterson followers and sympathizers, what do you think about the overlap between users of r/JordanPeterson and users of those other nasty, toxic subs? @jetflag @Gagi
I genuinly don't care. Good Ideas stand on their own merrit regardless of which subgroup finds them or parts of them appealing. also I don't follow reddit. and/or reddit subthreads.

Ben Shapiro, the no1 most hated conservative jew influencer in america, has both radical followers as well as radical detractors/hater in online (far) right circles.

Andrew Yang, a decent, well appriciated left/progressive candidate recieved endorsements from Richard Spencer and has a large following on 4chan.

Noah Chomsky is well loved by Tankies and anarchist terror cells.

Hell, there's fringe groups online of animal right activists who openely praise Hitler for choosing animals over humans, specifically dogs. 🤷‍♂️


I appriciate/judge someone on his or her own words/ideas, not on whether or not someone I don't like or even hate agrees with them or not.
 

Magnevi

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there's fringe groups online of animal right activists who openely praise Hitler for choosing animals over humans

Isn't it dangerous that extremists have a place to meet one another now?

While 20 years ago we would call these people in our small home town "gekkies" (crazy) and they would be forever alone. Aka: not-dangerous.
 

jetflag

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I think people claiming the existence of "systemic racism" are kind of shooting themselves in the foot. We should broaden the definition to "systemic inequality," which should be pretty easy to find all around us.
Agreed. You're muddying the waters by adding race to it.

the problem with inquality is that its a way deeper thing then what any political system contributes too or from. Also you need to ask yourself.

what is equality's "quality" so to speak? what is so amazing about all and everything equal? (as opposed to say, fair)

i've never gotten a good answer from a proponent of "equality" when asking this? what exactly it is so loved and desireable about the concept? Why would you want it?

The best honest answer i've gotten ever was somewhere in the line of "well basically I want me and my people/family to have more or the same then the other" Which I would argue is, deep down, not a desire for equality, but a desire for personal or tribal gain.
 
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jetflag

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Isn't it dangerous that extremists have a place to meet one another now?

While 20 years ago we would call these people in our small home town "gekkies" (crazy) and they would be forever alone. Aka: not-dangerous.
The internet brought a lot of things. both good and bad.
 
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jetflag

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Also:
We're in a safe space here on trancefix, fortunately.
triggered-feminist.gif
 
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Br8k L3gnd

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What is a safe space? is that where you don't talk about things that upset you? Is it where you are surrounded by those who think like you? I never really understood the safe space thing.
 
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Br8k L3gnd

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At its core, yeah, there are no laws in the US that are for or against race.
I think the whole concept of "systemic racism" is being expanded for things outside of the legal framework that still affect particular races disproportionately. For example, home lending for Black homeowners, or SAT scores for Asian-American college applicants. Both of those are well-documented cases; Black people have a harder time securing loans for homes, and elite colleges unfairly deduct Asian-American applicants' test scores for their "holistic" review.
Hopefully we can agree in that both of those cases are racist, and something about them needs to change.
Weapons of Math Destruction goes into a bit more detail about similar problems. I've yet to read the book, but the Wiki overview is a good example of how people have been treated unfairly by, of all things, algorithms and mathematical models.* More recently, AI tools developed for job applications have been shown to be sexist and also have the potential to treat minorities unfairly (ex. HireVue facial monitoring). There's something wrong, and the solution is not easy.


*I don't think the algorithms and mathematical models are inherently racist. Math doesn't care about that. How we use them to guide decision-making, though, can be problematic and lead to inequality.
I see you edited and I re read. There is some interesting stuff in here and again I would have to study on it. I really dont know much about ai or how its coded. I am glad we both agree math isnt racist :)
 
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dmgtz96

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Isn't it dangerous that extremists have a place to meet one another now?

While 20 years ago we would call these people in our small home town "gekkies" (crazy) and they would be forever alone. Aka: not-dangerous.
To be fair fringe groups have had their little Internet corners since '96, like Stormfront.


what is equality's "quality" so to speak? what is so amazing about all and everything equal? (as opposed to say, fair)
i've never gotten a good answer from a proponent of "equality" when asking this? what exactly it is so loved and desireable about the concept? Why would you want it?
Less crime, and people not being gentrified out of their homes. Better educational resources (and thus potential upward social mobility) for those who happen to start out from shitty, crime-ridden neighborhoods.
 
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jetflag

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Less crime, and people not being gentrified out of their homes. Better educational resources (and thus potential upward social mobility) for those who happen to start out from shitty, crime-ridden neighborhoods.
What makes you think (the push for) more equality is going to bring forth less cirme, less gentrification and better education as opposed to say: more wealth/ oppertunity? because I can give you ample precedent of areas and countries where, after a short uptick, the exact opposite happened.
 

dmgtz96

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What makes you think (the push for) more equality is going to bring forth less cirme, less gentrification and better education as opposed to say: more wealth/ oppertunity? because I can give you ample precedent of areas and countries where, after a short uptick, the exact opposite happened.
Sure, I'm interested in learning more about those cases where the opposite happened.

I would argue that more equality is more wealth and opportunity, at least for marginalized/low-income communities. But I can see how crime would shoot up if you forcefully take from the "haves" (wealthy White suburbanites in the US, for example).