Spamming in Upcoming Releases?!

Propeller

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Alright, so it's not technically spamming as each post is about a different release. However, when the same people are posting a few posts in a row most days and they're all steroid uplifters then it does in reality become spamming. 😄
Not sure what the solution is if that's what most people like, but that forum is definitely saturated with one type of style. It crowds out other producers and styles which also deserve attention and promotion, IMO.
 
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Gagi

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Yeah we've had these discussions a lot (both on the old place and upon creating this one) - and nobody likes it - but how do you manage that without being too restrictive and selective (which is almost always subjective)? Ban users - for what, doing what everyone else is? Limit one style - how, listen to every track out there? I mean, we're really out of ideas. We tried encouragement and that seems to be working to a degree, but we still have labels promoting their own work here etc.

We'll probably at some point purge all the 0-reply threads, but real-time, there's not much we can do.

But feel free to discuss and share some ideas, if you have them.
 

Hensmon

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Yep its a tricky one. I know what you mean about one style often being the dominant force in that section but unfortunately I think thats more of a reflection of how dominant that style is represented in the Trance scene. We actually managed to reduce thread dumping a fair bit since the move to the new forum which has helped, but I get your point. Difficult one to police... personally I don't mind users sharing what they want, ultimately it doesnt make things too hard for me when looking for releases specific to my taste.

One thing we could consider is that if a user or label posts too many threads that bring 0 replies too often then I remove a bunch of them when they are posted, essentially putting a limit of those types of releases.
 
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Gagi

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We thought about that, but with the current software, it is not possible. Maybe there is an extension for that (limit posts in specific sections), but it costs money.
 

Propeller

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I would restrict the number of new threads each member can make there to one per day. Make it a rule for that forum. I know that people might break the rule and post more but then you could easily see who is doing it from the dates and delete the excess threads. Maybe you could place a banner on top of the forum, somewhere near the new thread icon so that it is easily visible.
 

Hensmon

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One per day is too harsh in my opinion. I don't share much in upcoming releases, but maybe in one day I find a handful of good tracks I want to post and I would be annoyed to be limited on that. Some regular posters in this section also share a lot of good music too, I don't want to miss out on something because they hit a limit. Sharing is ultimately good, we just want to increase the quality of what is being shared, or at least the variety. Up to the users really to do this.
 

Propeller

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I agree that a lot of good music is still being shared but the spamming that goes on makes that forum difficult to navigate. You look for a thread and it's buried underneath a deluge of stuff from the same label. 🤨I'd say 80% of the threads are started by 20% of the users. It's easy to see who those users are. It's not necessarily a case that such vast majority like that style of trance.
Not sure why so few need to make so many posts.
With a one or two post per day rule you could still share multiple tracks per single thread and add more tracks to the same thread. It's something that already happens with various EPs.
Just feel it would make the forum a lot more pleasant and tidier. 🙂
 

Recharge

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I have an idea but its a bit awkward. Maybe make some ''admin/curators'' who can pin up music from different styles/labels every day. You can easily find people who listen wide variety of styles and genres. Also maybe add a song of the day to the current song of the week and add more variaty there too.
 

Magnevi

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I think one thread a day max limit is fine - what other reason are you going to make loads of threads other than spamming the releases forum with generic rubbish.
Im also for 1 per day in UR section.

If you find 5 great tracks like Hensmon proposes, you gotta think about which one to share ‘today’. The best one, that you really are excited about! If you really want, you can always share another one ‘tomorrow’.

I dont check 97% of the topics there. Which means I miss great music. Its just too much. If theres a nice talk about a track, a day later its on page 3.
 

Gagi

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We're all in agreement here. Most of the threads have been dumped en masse, and that sometimes makes it hard to discover something truly amazing.

But on the other hand, who here, among us who discuss these things, has enough time on their hands to check hundreds of releases weekly, and then share the best here as well? So how do you find out about what's really good? I do so here. And maybe the mass thread dumps do clutter things a bit, they still give us a chance to discover something.

And who says the spammers will disappear? They will just post one per day, but still probably get around to posting most of their stuff. And the UR section will probably be full of their stuff still, only slightly less than before, and I don't know if the discussion will increase significantly.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for sharing quality music here and reducing 'the spam'. But will you discover and share? I certainly know I won't, as I'm out of all the circles when it comes to new stuff. I discover it here.

Just wanted to provide a counter-argument as to why this isn't as straightforward a solution as it might seem. We've discussed this extensively already when we were creating this forum.
 
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Gagi

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I have an idea but its a bit awkward. Maybe make some ''admin/curators'' who can pin up music from different styles/labels every day. You can easily find people who listen wide variety of styles and genres. Also maybe add a song of the day to the current song of the week and add more variaty there too.

Taste is too subjective for one person to do it, and it is not guaranteed I will like something user X posts, and vice-versa. Also, that takes time.

The daily track is a nice idea, but when we decide on the TOTW, we only have a handful of releases, almost always not enough for one per day. It could work with classics/other genres as well, but then again that takes some time, and we're not always free to take care of that regularly (it involves some code as well).
 

Hensmon

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It currently works out to about 3.5 pages of releases generated per month, so a full page exists for over a week until it is completely moved to the next. I woudn't say that is a crazy difficult amount to manage as with one click to the net page you are seeing over 2 weeks of releases, something that could be reviewed in less than 20 minutes.

But I also feel the same as you guys really, and the view/reply count does indicate that users are just not interested (at all) in a portion of what is being posted, and in fact bulk posting has the opposite effect in terms of engagement. For example I told the Tranceallstars guy to post only 1 release at a time. All of his posts have 0 replies, so clearly there is no interest. I will enforce that properly now and delete the excess as in this case it is obvious.

In other instance it is less obvious and 1 post per day is too limiting and impractical for people wanting to share. See the below image for example. A triple post, but it has value (and replies). I just listened to all the three releases and enjoyed 2 of them. The 3rd by Ferry Corsten I did not like, but was interested to see what this big name was doing and will probably even comment. If we limited this user to 1 post, maybe he will post the Ferry track and I miss out on the other two (as he was too busy or forgets to post later in the week). But of course I also see the user who posts 5/6 tracks and none of them have a single reply and low views.

Screenshot 2020-10-25 at 08.59.59.png

If this section had double the amount of releases shared, but 80% of them were quality, would we be complaining or mind? I don't think so. So the issue is less on volume and more on quality releases that TF users find interesting. So the options I see are;

1. Set a limit on posting, but don't make it overly restrictive and see how it goes. I'd say 3 per day.
2. Mods attempt and users encouraged to share more releases and of a wider variety across Trance/Prog, i.e Psychedelic, Trance-Techno, Progressive House, making it a more varied section, with hopefully better music
3. Do both :)
 
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Propeller

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But on the other hand, who here, among us who discuss these things, has enough time on their hands to check hundreds of releases weekly, and then share the best here as well? So how do you find out about what's really good? I do so here. And maybe the mass thread dumps do clutter things a bit, they still give us a chance to discover something.

And who says the spammers will disappear? They will just post one per day, but still probably get around to posting most of their stuff. And the UR section will probably be full of their stuff still, only slightly less than before, and I don't know if the discussion will increase significantly.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for sharing quality music here and reducing 'the spam'. But will you discover and share? I certainly know I won't, as I'm out of all the circles when it comes to new stuff. I discover it here.
To be honest, it is very easy to discover new music. There are so many podcasts out there, youtube channels, etc., something to cater for everyone's taste.
I think if you make it clear that spamming is unacceptable and set a daily limit to X then it would undoubtedly have an effect. Some may not respect it but if excessive and prolonged spamming carries on it would be easy to spot and then act accordingly.

Btw, Is that forum limited to upcoming/just released material or can you also post about tracks released recently? I think it would make sense if we could post about 'upcoming' but also recently released stuff, for example from the same calendar year.
 
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Gagi

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Still not sure about it, as quality is subjective and is always up for interpretation. So maybe we miss out on some greats because of it, and also laziness/not remembering to post others tomorrow etc.

Also, looking at the section right now, is it really that bad, because I'm not really seeing it. Ok, there's like 5 0-reply threads per page. And the names from producers/labels are often well-known.

I'd much rather set soft limits, but also keep in mind who are the main culprits, rather than punishing people who always share good music worth listening to.

This is sorted by replies, ascending, so the first couple of pages have 0 replies.
 
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Propeller

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But I also feel the same as you guys really, and the view/reply count does indicate that users are just not interested (at all) in a portion of what is being posted, and in fact bulk posting has the opposite effect in terms of engagement. For example I told the Tranceallstars guy to post only 1 release at a time. All of his posts have 0 replies, so clearly there is no interest. I will enforce that properly now and delete the excess as in this case it is obvious.

In other instance it is less obvious and 1 post per day is too limiting and impractical for people wanting to share. See the below image for example. A triple post, but it has value (and replies). I just listened to all the three releases and enjoyed 2 of them. The 3rd by Ferry Corsten I did not like, but was interested to see what this big name was doing and will probably even comment. If we limited this user to 1 post, maybe he will post the Ferry track and I miss out on the other two (as he was too busy or forgets to post later in the week). But of course I also see the user who posts 5/6 tracks and none of them have a single reply and low views.

If this section had double the amount of releases shared, but 80% of them were quality, would we be complaining or mind? I don't think so. So the issue is less on volume and more on quality releases that TF users find interesting. So the options I see are;

1. Set a limit on posting, but don't make it overly restrictive and see how it goes. I'd say 3 per day.
2. Mods attempt and users encouraged to share more releases and of a wider variety across Trance/Prog, i.e Psychedelic, Trance-Techno, Progressive House, making it a more varied section, with hopefully better music
3. Do both :)
I think that most people are limited on time and so even setting aside 20 minutes to trawl through posts is asking for much. You'd want to check out what's going on elsewhere on the site.

The key thing you've mentioned is that bulk posting has the opposite effect in terms of engagement. Yes, it's good to find out about new releases but this is also a site for music discussion. I would argue that the discussion part is more important for a site like this as it's so easy to find out about new releases on youtube, podcasts, etc., but you don't get the discussion aspect on those sites.
When I open UR and see that a lot of threads have 0 replies I feel like I've landed on a spamming site. So, I would say the issue is both quality and volume. Why not tell members that if they're posting multiple tracks from same label to keep it to the same thread? It all sounds the same anyway... 😬

I'd agree with your suggestions, set a limit to 3 per day but with one thread per label, and encourage sharing of more variety.
 
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Katadunkass

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This genre is a fucking joke, so much fucking dogshit being released everyday. Its a fucking disgrace, i fucking spit on what this genre has beome. Just constantly striving further and further away from the original sounds.
Buhuu, let me cry the biggest river in existence, but never contribute with anything myself.