dmgtz96

Elite Member
Jul 13, 2020
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well thats a pretty skewed and frankly retarded way of looking at "my viewpoint" since I have suggested things what we should and could do about the problem. where have I actually suggested we should do nothing precisely?

Your viewpoint however, is a whitewash/ conveniently shrug-the-rest-under-the-carpet way of looking at it.

If there's only one big evil enemy we can just solely focus on that and comfortably forget the rest of the players who brought forth this mess with their endless powergrabbing abroad in places where they had no business being. Because thats nice and easy and you don't have to think about it too much.

forget about the instigators and solely focus on the end aggressor.

how convenient....
We're well past the understanding and compassion that you mentioned. It's binary now, or things will get worse.
 

Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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@dmgtz96 here's in summary my non-false dichotomy concerning Ukraine.

- Putin and his crownies need to be overthrowned / punished (ea evil)

- foreign influencers and their NGO s who’ve been destabilising the country since 2009 need to be overthrowned/ punished. (ea evil)

- the ukranian people need their country back with full sovereignty (ea good)

Anything so far to disagree with? And if yes pray tell why?
 

dmgtz96

Elite Member
Jul 13, 2020
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Nice dodge but that has nothing to do with what I said about the instigators of this conflict needing equal condemnation and punishment
well, calling someone's beliefs "retarded" will only make them double-down on their beliefs.

@dmgtz96 here's in summary my non-false dichotomy concerning Ukraine.

- Putin and his crownies need to be overthrowned / punished (ea evil)

- foreign influencers and their NGO s who’ve been destabilising the country since 2009 need to be overthrowned/ punished. (ea evil)

- the ukranian people need their country back with full sovereignty (ea good)

Anything so far to disagree with? And if yes pray tell why?
I agree with 1 and 3. 2 could be true as well, but there's no value in bringing it up now. Care about the immediate thread (Putin/Russian government). We can handle this later. This is like All Live Matter-ing when people are calling out specifically for Black Lives Matter. Nothing good can come out of calling for punishment to the Western foreign influencers and their NGOs now.
At the very least, it's very tone-deaf to call for punishment to (guilty) Western governments when Russia is literally invading Ukraine.
 
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Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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well, calling someone's beliefs "retarded" will only make them double-down on their beliefs
Listen..Claiming that holding all relevant parties involved in the corruption and destruction of Ukraine accountable equates to “doing nothing”. Is a retarded position. Sorry not sorry, it just is. You’re sketching a false dichotomy and I don’t care if you think that’s therefor an excuse to clamp down on that piece of intellectual dishonestly just because it made you feel angry.
I agree with 1 and 3. 2 could be true as well, but there's no value in bringing it up now. Care about the immediate thread (Putin/Russian government). We can handle this later. This is like All Live Matter-ing when people are calling out specifically for Black Lives Matter. Nothing good can come out of calling for punishment to the Western foreign influencers and their NGOs now.
At the very least, it's very tone-deaf to call for punishment to (guilty) Western governments when Russia is literally invading Ukraine.
Right dude.. nobody is thinking of Putin right now. 🤣

you know what the problem is with “well we’ll think of that later”? The fact that by then people will have forgotten/ won’t care anymore and they’ll have moved on to their next “project”. Or did you honestly think this ends with Ukraine? Because It hasn’t for the last 20 something cases where they got away with it after “the victory”

also: you and I are not in any position to protest, vote or do anything about Putin. We are however in a position to protest, vote, call out or do something about say: Mc Cain in your case, and Verhofstad in mine.

Again: it’s not a matter of either or. No matter how badly (for some bizarre reason) you want it to be. You can go after Putin ánd the (among which) GOP members who set this all in motion with their gas-greed and NGO’s.
 
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dmgtz96

Elite Member
Jul 13, 2020
2,645 Posts
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Listen..Claiming that holding all relevant parties involved in the corruption and destruction of Ukraine accountable equates to “doing nothing”. Is a retarded position. Sorry not sorry, it just is. You’re sketching a false dichotomy and I don’t care if you think that’s therefor an excuse to clamp down on that piece of intellectual dishonestly just because it made you feel angry.

Right dude.. nobody is thinking of Putin right now. 🤣

you know what the problem is with “well we’ll think of that later”? The fact that by then people will have forgotten/ won’t care anymore and they’ll have moved on to their next “project”. Or did you honestly think this ends with Ukraine? Because It hasn’t for the last 20 something cases where they got away with it after “the victory”

Again: it’s not a matter of either or. No matter how badly (for some bizarre reason) you want it to be. You can go after Putin ánd the (among which) GOP members who set this all in motion with their gas-greed and NGO’s.
the tone-deafness continues
 
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Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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Listen @dmgtz96 I’ve said in a previous thread that i like this place for not being twitter, and this back & forth between you and me starts to feel like one.

I suggest we take a break from this and focus on the dj’ing in Russia thing instead because we’re not going to come to any sort of compromise on this now.

edit: on top of that I am admidditly a tad more grumpy then my usual lovely self in this thread which has to do with the fact that this war affects my family directly and I’m severely sleep deprived because baby. So if I ad hominemmed you in any way apologese for that
 
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Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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Wow that's insane... I've only seen news of Ahmed Helmy coming to Russia soon, but now Heatbeat and other few well-known artists?! It's out of my mind what's going on in brain of these DJs to come there... (P.S. This week I've relocated from Russia for a good bunch of years)
My wife beat you to that by 10 or so. Good to hear you’re not being drafted
 
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dmgtz96

Elite Member
Jul 13, 2020
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Listen @dmgtz96 I’ve said in a previous thread that i like this place for not being twitter, and this back & forth between you and me starts to feel like one.

I suggest we take a break from this and focus on the dj’ing in Russia thing instead because we’re not going to come to any sort of compromise on this now
Yup, I'm steadfast on my beliefs
 

Jetflag

Elite Member
Jul 17, 2020
2,862 Posts
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At least we all agree that killing citizens who only want one thing (live life) is pointless.
Yup, though I suppose if you're Vladimir Putin there's definitely a point to it. which is to leave Ukraine (which to a large extend ís its people) completely in ruins for the west and/or conquer it/part of it.

This is also why I see the outcome of this as rather bleak despite the positive recent advances of the Ukrainian army. How do you win against an enemy who's willing to completely scorch Ukraine rather then let "the west have it" so to speak? Ánd who's a defacto gascompany with the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet?

I think there's only one preferable option and it might be too late for that but still...

- Mobilize the russian people (30% of which are already against and/or on the fence) to overthrow the Dictator before its to late.

And to do that you need to get as many Russians on our side as possible.

which means you need as many pro Ukraine Anti-Putin protest voices on the streets there if you can, because the majority of those homegrown seeds are already been squashed/supressed .


Which means ,and i'm going to hammer this home once more since its important although many will see this as contra-intuitive in the quest to punishing Putin so to speak..

the last thing you want to do is cancel foreign artists or in this case Dj's there,
since more North korea esq isolation of Russia means more grip on the populus for Putin. What you want is for them to go there and bring with them a pro ukrainian anti-government message.

Now its a far flung shot I know but if you can get those 30% óver the fence instead of on it, and with a little luck a 10% extra, you're already looking at 40% discontent russians most of which residing in the more cosmopolitan/liberal large cities. (Putin nor anyone else cares about the russian countryside peasantry by the way)

You might have enough for a succesfull revolution. especially because Putin is short on manpower and this whole war including the inevetable destruction or partial conquest of Ukraine, can be avoided.
 

dmgtz96

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Jul 13, 2020
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for what it's worth, the 10 years behind bars punishment for desertion and surrender is nuts
 

Jetflag

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Jul 17, 2020
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I think they got lucky.. most countries punishment, including nl’s, for desertion on the battlefield is a lead lunch.

its the only deathpenatly still warranted by the dutch state
 
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dmgtz96

Elite Member
Jul 13, 2020
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I think they got lucky.. most countries punishment, including nl’s, for desertion on the battlefield is a lead lunch.

its the only deathpenatly still warranted by the dutch state
just saw that in the US, desertion during war time = death penalty
 

Recharge

Elite Member
Sep 26, 2020
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38
This went so off topic, but there is a simple explanation. The moment Russians start executing their own soldiers, they loose the war because there is nothing stopping whole parts of their army who are against the war defecting to the Ukrainian side.
 
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Uplifted

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2020
935 Posts
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London
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So far I've received absolutely no feedback from the 4 mentioned artists. I've also written this information to some labels but also received no reply.

Glad to see that russian producer Michael Filimonov aka Abstract Vision is also supporting Ukraine - he tried to contact Philippe el Sisi but didn't receive any answer. Hope he's fine.

This is the screenshot from his instagram, trying to contact Philippe.

My friend's heart is with me, but he doesn't give a fuck about my messages when it comes to money. Rave nation, think of your idols!
Like I said, I won't kill. Rave, Piece and Unity! Quiet politicians!


51941718264_4755a71ab6_b.jpg
 

Spacetime

Member
Nov 6, 2021
205 Posts
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It feels wrong for them to decide to play there, for partying and conscription of soldiers to invade another sovereign nation to existing at the same time, with the same people. I'm sure there are many Russians who don't like this war, I am sure of it, but it doesn't seem enough. I would love to hear from a Russian person on how they believe the support to be split, because you can be certain you wont get the honest picture from my US news. It's clear it has a lot of support, I would just like to know the ratio.
 

Uplifted

Senior Member
Jul 21, 2020
935 Posts
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London
Website
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It feels wrong for them to decide to play there, for partying and conscription of soldiers to invade another sovereign nation to existing at the same time, with the same people. I'm sure there are many Russians who don't like this war, I am sure of it, but it doesn't seem enough. I would love to hear from a Russian person on how they believe the support to be split, because you can be certain you wont get the honest picture from my US news. It's clear it has a lot of support, I would just like to know the ratio.
I'm sure most of the russians on this forum will most likely support Ukraine, BUT unfortunately most of those in russia who support the annexation of 15% of our country (which occured yesterday) don't really speak English and will not answer you here.

I believe the ratio is ~70/30, and unfortunately the amount of "ruscists" is more then amount of "russians". But noone really knows the picture, as those who try to oppose are usually being sent to jail / poisoned by "Novichok" or killed - so these 30% might just not take part in these votings.

As you know, there's no opposition in russia, and if there is, it's most likely hiding somewhere abroad. So nowadays it's hard to oppose the government as they immediately mobilize you as "meat" to go and die in Ukraine under our shellfire.
 
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