Conservative or liberal (politics)

dmgtz96

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To be fair, he’s only been in office for a few weeks now
He's been signing executive orders that guarantee prices will go up rather than down. The immigration/customs raids are hurting US agriculture at the moment. He's doing the exact opposite of what he promised he would do.
 
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Jetflag

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He's been signing executive orders that guarantee prices will go up rather than down. The immigration/customs raids are hurting US agriculture at the moment. He's doing the exact opposite of what he promised he would do.
What I’m saying is, give it a bit of time. It’s way to soon to predict what the eventual outcome of said measures wil be, especially long term.

also: trumps promises where not just economical. Some of them where ethical. And the argument of “who’s gonna cheaply pick our crops if not for illegal immigrants” has an uncanny resemblance, morally speaking, to “who’s gonna cheaply pick our cotton if not for the slaves”
 

Hensmon

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I would agree that we're paying too much attention to random bullshit when there are more pressing issues. However, to counter what you said, people care more about alienating trans people and removing DEI than improving their own financial situation

This isn't countering to what I'm saying, it's another example, and I agree.

It's not that there are more pressing issues. The heath crisis is the issue and by an overwhelming amount. Nothing even comes close. The sane and rational thinking people in the US understand this, therefore support someone who brings the topic to the forefront, where it is meant to be.

My personal experience is that educated people, especially those not knee deep in partisan and political bias, agree and support Kennedy. Those most out of touch with evidence seem to be the most vocal against him. That's coming from a place of ignorance, not intellect.
 

SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

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What amazes me is how the US media, and then by extension the public, make tariffs this huge, all encompassing focus. There is health crisis that is completely crippling the country. It's unprecedented, the worst on the entire planet. It's costing trillions upon trillions, making everyone miserable, destroying generations. 1 in 5 KIDS are obese. 1 in 36 are getting autism... it used to be 1 in 10,000. Cancer is exploding. Diabetes alone cost the US 400 billion in one year and that number grows.

This human cost and this economic cost is magnitudes above any other issue, and by far. When are people going to wake up and evaluate where our priorities should be? Instead we decide to indulge ourselves in this partisan bullshit, worrying whether a dishwasher is going to cost $100 more because of some tarrifs that apply for 4 years max. This is why RFK is so popular, because for some reason, he is (despite what the pharmaceutical owned media tells you) the only sane one in the room.
Does trumps record in his first term not count in this argument? Obama and Biden did a lot to strengthen CHIPs, better nutritional standards in schools, expanding free school lunch, expansions to the ACA for children’s healthcare. All things Trump largely reversed in his first term. Child obesity went up in trumps term. Also, isn’t it perfectly republican to let Americans decide how fat and stupid to be? The govt has no role in fixing that lol.

I’d love to see some of RFKs ideas take place (no medication TV ads, banning certain food dyes, protecting the environment, promoting green energy) but I’m also aware that many of them are at odds with current admin policies and direction. I would be shocked to see RFK last a year if he gets the nod.

As for tariffs - they have an immediate impact on costs and jobs, and do lasting damage to supply chains and all the people involved economically with them. You are saying people shouldn’t be that upset with tariffs b/c of a long term likely unsolvable health epidemic that Trump did more to promote than solve in his last term? Come on man, that makes no sense. I think people would be less upset about tarrifs if 1.) they were targeted to reduce harm to specific US industries 2.) they had a clear plan about their objectives and conditions to lift them and 3.) if more economists supported the strategy. Trade wars are a losing battle and blanket tarrifs are supported by almost no one credible.
 
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dmgtz96

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This isn't countering to what I'm saying, it's another example, and I agree.

It's not that there are more pressing issues. The heath crisis is the issue and by an overwhelming amount. Nothing even comes close. The sane and rational thinking people in the US understand this, therefore support someone who brings the topic to the forefront, where it is meant to be.

My personal experience is that educated people, especially those not knee deep in partisan and political bias, agree and support Kennedy. Those most out of touch with evidence seem to be the most vocal against him. That's coming from a place of ignorance, not intellect.
I'm surrounded by the educated people you're talking about, and none of them have ever voiced support for RFK. Many of the younger people supported Kamala (since, after all, our company is international and places a big emphasis on diversity to attract the best talent). Operators and shift supervisors *might* support Trump, but I genuinely have never heard anyone talk about RFK specifically.
 

Jetflag

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Child obesity has steadily risen in the US since edit: Carter (wrong C president), also under obama/Biden, despite said programs.

Its perculiar to me that (rousseau) liberals. whom the more sensible corpus of the DNC seem to consist of, generally all seem to think that to solve a problem, any problem, like a health crisis or global warming.. you need a big fat ( preferably corrupt) topdown government , or some other massive institution initiative, as opposed to bottom up approaches that aren't a massive managerial cobra-effect.

if there is one body extremely bad at getting stuff efficiently done for absurd amounts of other peoples money, its big government.

something is going wrong in terms of health with your, the US, population. Maybe its your food, maybe something its your medicinal practices, maybe its culture gone wild... its unknown. What is known is that keeping the status quo wherein Big Pharma or Big Agro, who have a tremendous undue influence in US politics or EU politics for that matter, isn't very much solving the problem, despite all " the science" they employ.

Trumps direction concerning America interally seems to be, among which, to get rid of a lot of pompous/corrupt bureaucracy and simplifying things. Kennedy's legal history concerning big pharma and others seems to indicate that his approach will also be to, for starters, tackle the corruption and washington entanglement with these.

Seems like a good idea to me.

At the very least the removal of the "corruptive noise" so to speak and decrease of its size from DC might provide a clearer picture on where the problem actually lies.
 
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dmgtz96

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Child obesity has steadily risen in the US since edit: Carter (wrong C president), also under obama/Biden, despite said programs.

Its perculiar to me that (rousseau) liberals. whom the more sensible corpus of the DNC seem to consist of, generally all seem to think that to solve a problem, any problem, like a health crisis or global warming.. you need a big fat ( preferably corrupt) topdown government , or some other massive institution initiative, as opposed to bottom up approaches that aren't a massive managerial cobra-effect.

if there is one body extremely bad at getting stuff efficiently done for absurd amounts of other peoples money, its big government.

something is going wrong in terms of health with your, the US, population. Maybe its your food, maybe something its your medicinal practices, maybe its culture gone wild... its unknown. What is known is that keeping the status quo wherein Big Pharma or Big Agro, who have a tremendous undue influence in US politics or EU politics for that matter, isn't very much solving the problem, despite all " the science" they employ.

Trumps direction concerning America interally seems to be, among which, to get rid of a lot of pompous/corrupt bureaucracy and simplifying things. Kennedy's legal history concerning big pharma and others seems to indicate that his approach will also be to, for starters, tackle the corruption and washington entanglement with these.

Seems like a good idea to me.

At the very least the removal of the "corruptive noise" so to speak and decrease of its size from DC might provide a clearer picture on where the problem actually lies.
I'd say it has to do with the work culture, low salaries, crappy benefits, and expensive medical costs that most workers in the US experience. If you're a shift operator working 12 hr days or nights, you probably won't have enough time to exercise properly or cook nutritious food. So, most people default to buying fast food. Even cheaper sit-down Mexican restaurants are like $20-25/meal. A lot of salaried corporate America works far more than 40 hrs/wk, which (again) is not conducive for a healthy lifestyle.
Medical costs are insane. People generally don't go to the doctor even if they need to. The only exception is people who get very good insurance from their employer. But people without insurance genuinely cannot afford regular checkups.
 
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dmgtz96

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I've been fortunate enough to have a well-paid engineering job in, ironically, the industry that is being hated in this thread right now. If I didn't have this job, I wouldn't have been able to afford the medical treatments and checkups I've been getting since May of last year. But my conditions seem to be more like the exception rather than the rule. It also took me over three years of professional experience to get to where I am. My first job had no benefits at all, not even paid time off. And that's way more common today.
 

Hensmon

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Child obesity went up in trumps term. Also, isn’t it perfectly republican to let Americans decide how fat and stupid to be? The govt has no role in fixing that lol.

Child obesity is a decades long trend, it's independent of political party.

There are contributing factors you might be unaware of, as its not simple as people being lazy, or because of work culture, as dmgtz suggests. The US has diverse range of chemicals in its food and that other countries do not. Well over 2000 ingredients that are banned in Europe are available in US, which is ridiculous. Private companies should not be allowed to put harmful things in food. The FDA allows this because of corporate capture and weak governance.

Some of these chemicals work through cellular pathways and damage the mitochondria, which is responsible for the metabolic health of an individual. They literally cripple the ability for people to process energy correctly.

Even the endocrine system (hormones) plays a huge role in weight management, ask anyone with a thyroid issue. Glysophate aka Roundup is a common chemical sprayed all over the food - CDC says 80% of people have it in their urine. It is heavily linked to thyroid disruption, among other horrible things. It was RFK who took on Monsanto, won three court cases exceeding a total of 2 billion dollars worth of payouts [1] and who directly led to the removal of Roundup from garden centers around America. Probably hundreds of thousands of lives impacted by this, maybe more.
 
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dmgtz96

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Child obesity is a decades long trend, it's independent of political party.

There are contributing factors you might be are unaware of, as its not simple as people being lazy, or because of work culture, as dmgtz suggests. The US has diverse range of chemicals in its food and that other countries do not. Well over 2000 ingredients that are banned in Europe are available in US, which is ridiculous. Private companies should not be allowed to put harmful things in food. The FDA allows this because of corporate capture and weak governance.

Some of these chemicals work through cellular pathways and damage the mitochondria, which is responsible for the metabolic health of an individual. They literally cripple the ability for people to process energy correctly.

Even the endocrine system (hormones) plays a huge role in weight management, ask anyone with a thyroid issue. Glysophate aka Roundup is a common chemical sprayed all over the food - CDC says 80% of people have it in their urine. It is heavily linked to thyroid disruption among other horrible things. It was RFK who took on Monsanto, won three court cases exceeding a total of 2 billion dollars worth of payouts [1] and who directly led to the removal of Roundup from garden centers around America. Probably hundreds of thousands of lives impacted by this, maybe more.
You don't think that people being forced to work their ass off and have no time for cooking/exercise plays a role in the US' obesity crisis? ... ok
 
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Hensmon

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You don't think that people being forced to work their ass off and have no time for cooking/exercise plays a role in the US' obesity crisis? ... ok

Yes I do, but something else is making the US an extreme outlier. People work hard all over the world.
 
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dmgtz96

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Yes I do, but something else is making the US an extreme outlier. People work hard all over the world.
Fair enough. Japan and a few other Asian countries are also really bad about WLB. Yet, they don't experience the same obesity epidemic as the US.
 
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dmgtz96

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1738554015241.png


Hell yeah, let's shut the country down. Nothing matters at the moment. I was already losing hope, but maybe, just maybe there's a tiny bit of hope left. We all need to stand up against the injustice and racism. All of those immigration and customs enforcement raids are racist as fuck. Mexicans, which Trump and his cronies hate, are not going away. We'll bring this country to its knees.
If I weren't burning through paid time off for other commitments (medical procedure tomorrow + concert out of town next week), I'd join the February 5th protests at the state capitol. The smallest thing I can do is put up a small Mexican flag in my work cubicle.

Trump and Musk, we're coming for you.
 
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Jetflag

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View attachment 2509

Hell yeah, let's shut the country down. Nothing matters at the moment. I was already losing hope, but maybe, just maybe there's a tiny bit of hope left. We all need to stand up against the injustice and racism. All of those immigration and customs enforcement raids are racist as fuck. Mexicans, which Trump and his cronies hate, are not going away. We'll bring this country to its knees.
If I weren't burning through paid time off for other commitments (medical procedure tomorrow + concert out of town next week), I'd join the February 5th protests at the state capitol. The smallest thing I can do is put up a small Mexican flag in my work cubicle.

Trump and Musk, we're coming for you.
pro immigration/mexican protest?
 
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SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

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Yes I do, but something else is making the US an extreme outlier. People work hard all over the world.


Conclusions - Ultra-processed foods, eating out a lot, a lack of physical activity. Reading elsewhere, portion size, povery, cost of fresh foods and food deserts, advertising around unhealthy foods, consumption of sugar ans sugary drinks (ever seen the srinks sizes at Panda express?) and cultural eating habits <- last one is a biggie IMO. For kids, same factors plus a general lessening of physical activity in school and due to devices. Michelle Obama tried to do something about this. Trump reversed it all. Biden again brought much of it back as well as new initiatives.

And again, nothing Trump did in his first term did anything to fix any of this, and likely made it worse. Obesity rates went up. It's ideal to assume RFK might make an impact, but naive to think he actually will be able to do so given the lobbying there will be from admin allies when he actually tries to do anything. While I wait to be proven right on this, or wrong, I will voice my opinion around a terrible strategy of blanket tariffs as I watch it directly impact the industry which feeds my family.

Also, why does everyone here always assume the media is driving our thoughts on this? The effect of blanket tariffs is well understood and most politicians on both sides would not take this approach in a world sans Trump. The effect of Tarriffs are felt in a short time and are a regressive tax. They affect real jobs over short timeframes. The homebuilders association is already begging the admin to exempt building materials from this given the impact on construction. Will be fun to watch fuel prices go up and see how they can blame Biden for it.
 
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Jetflag

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Read previous posts,
I have, @Hensmon said one time that the media is blowing up tariffs disproportionately compared to health,

Nowhere did he, or I, ever claimed you’ve gotten your position/opinion concerning the us health crisis or the effect of tarrifs from “teh mainstream media sheepul” 😅 m8..

Beeping Reddit.com has been given more blame, lol

don’t wanna speak for hens here but as far as our back&forths here are concerned you don’t strike me as an msmbcNPC at all. 🤷

and you may take that as a compliment.. or not 😉
 
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SaltAcidFatHeatAcid

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I have, @Hensmon said one time that the media is blowing up tariffs disproportionately compared to health,

Nowhere did he, or I, ever claimed you’ve gotten your position/opinion concerning the us health crisis or the effect of tarrifs from “teh mainstream media sheepul” 😅 m8..

It's not necessarily you two although reddit/media are both brought up frequently. Go back to the election timeframe it was brought up a fair bit. Hens above was making the point that the Tariffs discussion was the wrong focus and blown up by the media. Not that any of that really matters in terms of this discussion. Just seems like a too-easy way to discount people's arguments, assuming they are following the narrative or don't have skin the game too. No offense taken but I think people are forming their own opinions in the midst of this current fuckery. I definitely do. We're doing contingency planning on how this is going to affect project costs, escalation, etc. What things might get cancelled. Thinking about inflationary risks, interest rates, etc. Well-defined targeted policy is easier to plan for. Vs this shooting from the hip, which might give Trump some more madman-esque power with those he's negotiating with. But it's well known that uncertainty can be devastating where economic impact is concerned.