Religion, faith, spirituality...

[Jetflag]

I was thinking about this perspective recently and how it's been kind of popularized by Peterson. I agree with the sentiment that the Bible (and other religious texts) are essentially a huge human psychology tomes, told essentially via a great story and myth.

But couldnt you say the same for any literature from the 20th century? Or Movies form the 90's? Video games? All use collective storytelling with identical themes, morals, archetypes found in the bible. It's all a deep dive into the human psyche. Couldn't someone in 2000 years look back at our period now and extract the same kind of knowledge from the material we created?

well it can't be said for just any literature, lecture or *insert media here* since most of if not all of them do not follow up on the rest of the caracteristics that I mention in that text.

for instance, most if not all do not have (or preach) a (set of) platonic form(s) as the ultimate goal for its adherents to strive towards, and consequently a (set of) counterparts to avoid. (Naraka v nirvana, Heaven vs Hell, etc.) and those that do, more often then not don't offer the instructions on how to get there/reach it.

to use a modern pop culture example from the MCU: The land Wakanda is the platonic form in Black Panther and most fans of the movie would agree that form as a succesfull one, as in it would be great if it where real or could be made real., but the movie and/or its francise to not offer the viewer the instructions or "rules for life" if you will (to stick to the topic of peterson) on how to strife for and/or reach and/or build it...


So i would say some 20th century literature or media has the potential to be a (succesfull) defacto religion, and religions pop up all the time (most recent one being scientology)..but its not just any. most modern media offers elements, but very few offer the single (semi) coherent framework.

 

[Hensmon]

So the it's rules and guide to life in which the religious texts lay out where the fundamental value and importance lies? And you mean that in an explicit manner i.e do not commit murder, do not commit adultery? Because you could argue that movies lay out rules for life too, even though they are not telling the viewer directly 'do not kill', they portray many stories that vilify such actions. Whats the difference?

 

[Meh]

There is not spiritual about life. We are all made up of flesh and blood and the electrical signals change the chemical reaction in our brain and bodies and whatever we see is the result of these chemical reactions from Hydrogen and Carbon Atoms. From sound waves to gravitational waves to gamma rays to xrays - it's all electrical signals. We are all connected to a quantum computer.

To me religion is nothing more than to provide comfort to help reduce the suffering of life. My only problem with religion is that it has been exploited to make as much money as possible from extremely nice people and it has been used for the wrong reasons to justify people's actions.

I think religion was originally what humans used as culture which gave rise to the greatest work of fiction ever created which is music but after it had tapped out the maximum potential, it started getting used for the wrong reasons to exploit it to make money.

Religion only got bad when the group size got too big - just like Trance music and just like all following.

To me religion is the root of all evil. Same way that I see that Science is also the root of all evil because it's based on a belief system and ideology and forced upon. Catholics/Christians/Hindus/Sikhs/Muslism - all fundamentalism and just another form of brainwashing and cult like following. Science when forced upon becomes a religion too.

Especially catholics and muslims - they are the worst of the worst...Both get away with every crime against humanity imaginable. To me religion is toxic. I call it the male disease about power/corruption/greed and control through money and legislation. All works of fiction again.

Science is also corrupt and I see it as a human disease male vs female through the invention of the splitting of the atom. Science brings fascism and religion brings fundamentalism. Both to me become a religion when you stop questioning it.

 

[Jetflag]

So the it's rules and guide to life in which the religious texts lay out where the fundamental value and importance lies? And you mean that in an explicit manner i.e do not commit murder, do not commit adultery? Because you could argue that movies lay out rules for life too, even though they are not telling the viewer directly 'do not kill', they portray many stories that vilify such actions. Whats the difference?

The difference is
1 that they don't offer a (neccesairy) coherent framework of all said important values, virtues, vices and instructions by themselves, necessary for a religion to be sustainable for multiple (if not indefinite) generations.

Individual pieces might and can as you pointed out, but none can by themselves be held up as a (combined) coherent framework. They're too loose. Its a bit like not having say: the bible, but each individual chapter loosly floating around as a book or letter by itself.

2 They don't hold up a platonic form as the ultimate judge or arbiter or goal//carrot on the stick..

Name me a movie that in itself covers the amount of trialed and tested myths, legends and stories that say. the Torah does,

there's no such thing as say: "the bible of Nolan" which combines all (moral) lesson of his entire videography ranging from Insomnia to Tenet wherein each movie tackles one or more ethical, epistimological, metaphysical etc problem or trap.


on top of that, even if you could, it has not been tried or tested for sustainablility yet.
we don't know if say, Jediïsm will even be around in a century or reduced to the same religious status as egypian mythology is in this day and age.

 

[Jetflag]

There is not spiritual about life. We are all made up of flesh and blood and the electrical signals change the chemical reaction in our brain and bodies and whatever we see is the result of these chemical reactions from Hydrogen and Carbon Atoms. From sound waves to gravitational waves to gamma rays to xrays - it's all electrical signals. We are all connected to a quantum computer.

To me religion is nothing more than to provide comfort to help reduce the suffering of life. My only problem with religion is that it has been exploited to make as much money as possible from extremely nice people and it has been used for the wrong reasons to justify people's actions.

I think religion was originally what humans used as culture which gave rise to the greatest work of fiction ever created which is music but after it had tapped out the maximum potential, it started getting used for the wrong reasons to exploit it to make money.

Religion only got bad when the group size got too big - just like Trance music and just like all following.

To me religion is the root of all evil. Same way that I see that Science is also the root of all evil because it's based on a belief system and ideology and forced upon. Catholics/Christians/Hindus/Sikhs/Muslism - all fundamentalism and just another form of brainwashing and cult like following. Science when forced upon becomes a religion too.

Especially catholics and muslims - they are the worst of the worst...Both get away with every crime against humanity imaginable. To me religion is toxic. I call it the male disease about power/corruption/greed and control through money and legislation. All works of fiction again.

Science is also corrupt and I see it as a human disease male vs female through the invention of the splitting of the atom. Science brings fascism and religion brings fundamentalism. Both to me become a religion when you stop questioning it.

sounds to me the common denominator in both religion and science (both the good and the bad)

is humans.

which is why I fundamentally disagree with you that religion is the root of all evil, and that science brings facism.

 

[dmgtz96]

To me religion is the root of all evil. Same way that I see that Science is also the root of all evil because it's based on a belief system and ideology and forced upon. Catholics/Christians/Hindus/Sikhs/Muslism - all fundamentalism and just another form of brainwashing and cult like following. Science when forced upon becomes a religion too.

Science is also corrupt and I see it as a human disease male vs female through the invention of the splitting of the atom. Science brings fascism and religion brings fundamentalism. Both to me become a religion when you stop questioning it.

LOL this is so wrong that I can't imagine this being anything other than a 4chan shitpost/copypasta

 

[Archon]

shitpost

Seriously, what did you expect? Something actually intelligible?

 

[dmgtz96]

Seriously, what did you expect? Something actually intelligible?

Lol I mean it sounded like he was getting somewhere with the electrical signals, chemical reactions bit then he went all QuAnTuM cOmPuTeRs

This is "there's a sickness in the air" Aussie IP dude, ain't it?

 

[Archon]

This is "there's a sickness in the air" Aussie IP dude, ain't it?

Yup. Those venomous little animals must get to you at some point I guess.

 

[Meh]

LOL this is so wrong that I can't imagine this being anything other than a 4chan shitpost/copypasta

What is wrong in your eye? Science is corrupt because do you know that you shouldn't exist at all? With knowledge comes power and with absolute power, it corrupts absolutely because it can mean that it can be a sweeping statement across everyone. When you get an understanding why we are here, you'll realize that we are no different than the animals and bugs and creepy crawlers.

Science has a dark side because we are interfering with nature. I can objectively say that our goal in life is to produce offsprings and die - both men and women are suppose to die. It happens in the animal kingdom. Animals after reproduction dies and every mammal instinctly creates an equilibrium with the surrounding environment but we as humans don't. We spread and multiply until every resource has been consumed.
Why do you think that nature is attempting to get rid of us so badly with the introduction of diseases and viruses and storms?
All the fresh drinking water you enjoy drinking goes through heavy processing - it doesn't come naturally from nature. It goes through heavy processing and cleaning before entering your tap. That is corruption because it's interfering with nature.
Oh that time when you got sick from a skin infection or got sick from food poisoning and you needed antibiotics to help treat the infection - that is corruption.
Creative destruction is how the species survives. There shouldn't be 7.2 billion people on this planet. TO me I think it's been religion that has been running the world and not science. Science is about getting to get an understanding of why we are here which is just evolution to developing AI and quantum computer.

Lol I mean it sounded like he was getting somewhere with the electrical signals, chemical reactions bit then he went all QuAnTuM cOmPuTeRs

This is "there's a sickness in the air" Aussie IP dude, ain't it?

Religion is the root of all evil because it's designed to control our life accept this form of slavery.
Religion own all the land and controls the corporation and controls humans

 

[dmgtz96]

What is wrong in your eye? Science is corrupt because do you know that you shouldn't exist at all?

Um okaaay???

With knowledge comes power and with absolute power, it corrupts absolutely because it can mean that it can be a sweeping statement across everyone. When you get an understanding why we are here, you'll realize that we are no different than the animals and bugs and creepy crawlers.

We're not here for any particular reason other than we were the lucky sperm to survive and become humans. At most we exist because our parents wanted us to exist, but I acknowledge that reality isn't true for everyone.

Science has a dark side because we are interfering with nature.

Science tries to understand nature, not interfere with it. The double slit experiment that led to quantum mechanics never "interfered" with nature. Neither did Darwin's evolutionary theory or Robert Boyle's experiments that gave us chemistry.

I can objectively say that our goal in life is to produce offsprings and die - both men and women are suppose to die.

Death is inevitable (we haven't found immortality, hah!), but I disagree about producing offsprings on a fundamental level

It happens in the animal kingdom. Animals after reproduction dies and every mammal instinctly creates an equilibrium with the surrounding environment but we as humans don't. We spread and multiply until every resource has been consumed.
Why do you think that nature is attempting to get rid of us so badly with the introduction of diseases and viruses and storms?

We'll fight back with the best knowledge and resources that we have, as we have always done. We are kicking COVID-19's ass with technology that did not exist even 10 years ago, and we developed extremely reliable vaccines in record time within the frameworks we created to ensure new vaccines are safe for the general population (i.e. clinical trials).

All the fresh drinking water you enjoy drinking goes through heavy processing - it doesn't come naturally from nature. It goes through heavy processing and cleaning before entering your tap. That is corruption because it's interfering with nature.

I don't claim to be an expert in water or water processing, but those processes likely exist to make water safer for us. Raw water can have salmonella, E. Coli, Giardia, which are harmful but can be removed with clever science and engineering.

Oh that time when you got sick from a skin infection or got sick from food poisoning and you needed antibiotics to help treat the infection - that is corruption.

I would like to live, thank you very much?

Creative destruction is how the species survives. There shouldn't be 7.2 billion people on this planet

r/thanosdidnothingwrong

TO me I think it's been religion that has been running the world and not science.

Depends on the country. Some are more religious, but some are more secular. Most of the Western world is secular.

Science is about getting to get an understanding of why we are here which is just evolution to developing AI and quantum computer.

... Yes? But AI and quantum computing are not all of science, and they are not the ultimate goal. Do you know anything about AI and quantum computing beyond what you read in conspiracy theories and sketchy Youtube videos?

Religion is the root of all evil because it's designed to control our life accept this form of slavery.

Someone just finished watching Richard Dawkins' documentary.
I am not well-versed in religion in general, so I am not comfortable making blanket states. If I had to guess, there is nothing inherently wrong about a religion itself, so it could not be the root of all evil.

Religion own all the land and controls the corporation and controls humans

Money has entered the chat

 

[Meh]

Um okaaay???


Science tries to understand nature, not interfere with it. The double slit experiment that led to quantum mechanics never "interfered" with nature. Neither did Darwin's evolutionary theory or Robert Boyle's experiments that gave us chemistry.

[/QUOTE]

Science tries to understand but when there is an involvement of change from the science community itself, that in itself is a religion. As in we have to save the planet or do something Don't believe me?
Climate change, climate action - all this about saving the planet, is noble cause corruption. It's another religious move. Hell even the leading group such as NASA and CSIRO want action on climate change, if that isn't interfering then I don't know what is. Here is a video from CSIRO. It's deeply disturbing when science becomes a religion.

Death is inevitable (we haven't found immortality, hah!), but I disagree about producing offsprings on a fundamental level

Death is only inevitable because we keep moving away from the cause.

We'll fight back with the best knowledge and resources that we have, as we have always done. We are kicking COVID-19's ass with technology that did not exist even 10 years ago, and we developed extremely reliable vaccines in record time within the frameworks we created to ensure new vaccines are safe for the general population (i.e. clinical trials).

[/QUOTE]
How is that not considered corruption? Using vaccination and finding treatment is considered corruption. Why do you think you have an immune system for? Saving people is another form of noble cause corruption and it is religion trying to save people. We are interfering with nature and when you interfere with nature it's why we have so many problems in the world.

I don't claim to be an expert in water or water processing, but those processes likely exist to make water safer for us. Raw water can have salmonella, E. Coli, Giardia, which are harmful but can be removed with clever science and engineering.

[/QUOTE]
Why do you think you have an immune system for then? It's for killing germs and fighting it off.

I would like to live, thank you very much?

r/thanosdidnothingwrong

Depends on the country. Some are more religious, but some are more secular. Most of the Western world is secular.

[/QUOTE]
I am not saying that you shouldn't live or not - I don't like to interfere with any personal matters but most of society runs off a religion because it's based on what the general consensus is which is another religion and not a science. Science is about questioning the original hypothesis and disproving it.

... Yes? But AI and quantum computing are not all of science, and they are not the ultimate goal. Do you know anything about AI and quantum computing beyond what you read in conspiracy theories and sketchy Youtube videos?

[/QUOTE]
What do you mean it's not all science? It's become a reality. Everything is becoming automated and most jobs will disappear with ai taking over all jobs. Eventually AI will do all the heavy lifting and make all the buildings and do the construction for us because quantum computers will be able to crack every single thing we desire because they don't work like normal computers. They will be smarter than our brains. It will be able to be in two positions at once.

Someone just finished watching Richard Dawkins' documentary.
I am not well-versed in religion in general, so I am not comfortable making blanket states. If I had to guess, there is nothing inherently wrong about a religion itself, so it could not be the root of all evil.

[/QUOTE]
The people who follow religion isn't the problem. It's the people who start it that are the problem because it's a movement and based on a belief system.

Money has entered the chat

Money and god can be printed out of thin air...so...?

 

[dmgtz96]

Okay so the quotes got all messed up but:
^

1. You never said anything about climate change. For all you know we could agree that, yeah, something needs to be done about that. I still don't know why science = religion.
2. Are you implying that, if we get closer to the clause (whatever that is) we will be immortal? That... makes no sense?
3. Okay, I'll accept that vaccination and seeking treatment are "corruption," as they're not natural. I don't think I ever said vaccination and treatments were not corruption.
Your immune system can't do everything, though. Since you're using Youtube, I will also use an (unreliable) source, a Quora answer:

What would the population of the world be without doctors or dentists and no medicine of any kind just like it was 1000 years ago?
Kent Aldershof - Quora
Without modern medics, 1000 years ago, people were generally very unhealthy. Nearly everyone lost most of their teeth by middle age. Bodies were noticeably underdeveloped, with the average height of people six to twelve inches below today’s average height. Life spans were much shorter, due to poor nutrition, poor sanitation, and rampant diseases. Infectious plagues periodically killed off large portions of the population.
Women commonly died in childbirth, and infant/child mortality were very high. Women in many places would talk about their “first family”, “second family”, and “third family” (or more), referring to their children who had died.
Deformities, such as rickets, were common. Blindness was common. Amputations were common, both medical and traumatic. TB was common, and usually fatal. Venereal diseases were widespread. Food poisoning and blood poisoning were common. Diseases we rarely hear about today, such as scarlet fever and whooping cough and measles, were commonplace.
Without doctors and medicines, the world would largely revert to a similar situation, within the span of a generation.
And unless you visit a doctor and a dentist regularly, you individually would soon become much like the vile and offensive people of the middle ages.
Kent Aldershof - Quora

By "vile and offensive," the author meant:

Generally speaking, all the people were vile and offensive by today’s standards. Bat teeth, bad breath, rickets, skin lesions, running sores, dirty, and so on.

4. Consensus is not a religion.
5. I never said AI and quantum computing were not real. They're just not all the fields of science. Heck, they're not even all the fields of statistics/computer science.
6. Yes, AI taking over will displace a lot of people that are currently employed. That being said, AI is not yet good enough for automatic driving (see the Tesla driverless crash from April). Automation will keep displacing people, but there will be opportunities for those interested in monitoring and maintaining the automation systems.
7. I don't see why "The people who follow religion isn't the problem," and why you would blame the creators. It is the people's fault if they misinterpret and benefit from the work of others for personal gain.
8. Corporations' #1 interest is money. They don't really give a shit about religion, social causes, or whatever. It's always money.

edit that is 45 min too late:
I am not interested in spending any more time arguing with you. Have a nice rest of your weekend, and feel free to think in such a cynical way for the rest of your life.

 

[Archon]

I am not interested in spending any more time arguing with you. Have a nice rest of your weekend, and feel free to think in such a cynical way for the rest of your life.

Haha thank corrupt God you concluded everything with this. Just don't take him too seriously. Dude's deluded and not very mentally healthy, don't think our explanations will ever be understood or helpful.

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

This was a nice topic. Lets not ruin it...

 

[Katadunkass]

There are so many things wrong with your statements Meh, I honestly have no idea where to even begin. I'm absolutely flabbergasted. Congratulations, you pretty much made me speechless.

I think you're trying to include some kind of nihilism into your thoughts, which I'm all for, I'm a nihilist myself, but pretty much everything else is either a misunderstanding of definitions or you're just wrong on so many levels.

 

[Archon]

nihilist

 

[Katadunkass]

^Ha, you're a man of culture, I see!

 

[Meh]

There are so many things wrong with your statements Meh, I honestly have no idea where to even begin. I'm absolutely flabbergasted. Congratulations, you pretty much made me speechless.

I think you're trying to include some kind of nihilism into your thoughts, which I'm all for, I'm a nihilist myself, but pretty much everything else is either a misunderstanding of definitions or you're just wrong on so many levels.

Meaning of life comes through experience and language and the people you meet and the food you experience along with some tragedy like I have. Sorry if I sound bitter because I hit a drunk pedestrian where he smashed into my windscreen and ever since then I have not been the same. I get nightmares ever since the car accident and that is why I have turned psychotic and can't stop thinking and questioning. I have what you call a split mind since when ever I see myself in the mirror I can't see my full face but dead centre only.

 

[Archon]

Get professional help. Random dudes on forums are not there for that.