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[Progrez]

I don’t see why skin color matters in this fictional story about a mermaid.

Nothing wrong with colour but the original little mermaid was never a black character it was written in 1836 by a danish wrier. It's very woke kind of move to change colours just to showcase the current woke and cancel culture of today. Similar thing happening to Doctor Who all they are doing is changing the colours or genders and calling that "innovative" "creative" when it's far further from being innovative or creative writing. They brought in Russell T Davis and David Tennant just to pull more audience but it won't last long.

Anyone watching Star Trek Lower Decks? I just started watching it now.

I am not able to get into it. It's too fast paced and doesn't allow the show to breathe and tries very hard to be funny but it's not. Acting, pacing, script writing, music is all over the place. Same thing with Prodigy I like janeway but I am not able to get into it.

 

[Progrez]

The absolute creative bankruptcy of what was once a great Disney is whats wrong.

Make something original and new for once, instead of just casting "insert the current thing for Sosjul Justus " here, and calling it a day

But also something that's engaging to the audience and something that's well written, acted, musical scores and soulful writing an soulful imagery and iconic too. Not the in your face gritty dark fiction almost too violent and soulless and almost crazy too with shitty CGI as well and loud obnoxious music too with blaring over compressed French horns, Baritones and trombone and generic hans zimmer drums sounds that everyone else copies and something that has a short shelf life and where it looks robotic and cookie cutter.

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

I think it’s a huge problem that people call everything “woke” and quickly dismiss things.

You can try and make the world nicer for everyone. This means, maybe once in a while implement a gay-role in your story. They are here in the real world too. Once in a while implement a (insert minority).

Our world is so much centered around white males that minorities are not represented. This causes (unconsciously) discrimination. If all the time any character in movies/shows are straight, that shows the world: being gay is weird.

You can think that’s not true, it simply is.

Black people and maybe in particular black woman are also unrepresented. The cliche “the black guy dies first” is not a cliche for no reason. That’s often how it goes! This puts in our brain: blacks are weak, stupid. Etc.

This is what we show our children. Content with white straight males as the hero.

so now then: some are trying to fix this. Some are maybe pushing this agenda too far. Maybe.

But who the hell cares whether this mermaid has a brown tinted skin color… I would have expected you guys thinking she is sexy as hell. A beautiful woman.

And just think it’s cool for all the woman and colored people to have her as the hero.

Don’t simple say “woke meh”. That’s so simplistic.

This reminds me of an uncle of me husband. He told us he was frustrated with tv because “every tv-show and movie had gays and trans what not in it”.

I told him I’ve been watching white straight people for 30 years.

Sure. There are exceptions. But there is a reason why Heartstopper is such an enourmous succes: finally there’s a realistic and normal show about boys who just happen to be gay.

There aren’t many of those. On regular tv there are none.

Anyway. To sum up: stop caring. She is brown and that’s nice for you because she is hot, and in the mean time be happy for MANY people who feel represented for once.

 

[Jetflag]

But also something that's engaging to the audience and something that's well written, acted, musical scores and soulful writing an soulful imagery and iconic too. Not the in your face gritty dark fiction almost too violent and soulless and almost crazy too with shitty CGI as well and loud obnoxious music too with blaring over compressed French horns, Baritones and trombone and generic hans zimmer drums sounds that everyone else copies and something that has a short shelf life and where it looks robotic and cookie cutter.

yeah agreed.

I think Disney did a wonderfull job with the earlier Pixar movies in terms of trying something new in the early 2000's Finding Nemo, Shrek, The Incredibles.. All classics afaic.

The new remakes however are either bland & forgettable or just awefull. Maleficent might be the only somewhat ok exception

 

[Jetflag]

I think it’s a huge problem that people call everything “woke” and quickly dismiss things.

You can try and make the world nicer for everyone. This means, maybe once in a while implement a gay-role in your story. They are here in the real world too. Once in a while implement a (insert minority).

Our world is so much centered around white males that minorities are not represented. This causes (unconsciously) discrimination. If all the time any character in movies/shows are straight, that shows the world: being gay is weird.

You can think that’s not true, it simply is.

Black people and maybe in particular black woman are also unrepresented. The cliche “the black guy dies first” is not a cliche for no reason. That’s often how it goes! This puts in our brain: blacks are weak, stupid. Etc.

This is what we show our children. Content with white straight males as the hero.

so now then: some are trying to fix this. Some are maybe pushing this agenda too far. Maybe.

But who the hell cares whether this mermaid has a brown tinted skin color… I would have expected you guys thinking she is sexy as hell. A beautiful woman.

And just think it’s cool for all the woman and colored people to have her as the hero.

Don’t simple say “woke meh”. That’s so simplistic.

This reminds me of an uncle of me husband. He told us he was frustrated with tv because “every tv-show and movie had gays and trans what not in it”.

I told him I’ve been watching white straight people for 30 years.

Sure. There are exceptions. But there is a reason why Heartstopper is such an enourmous succes: finally there’s a realistic and normal show about boys who just happen to be gay.

There aren’t many of those. On regular tv there are none.

Anyway. To sum up: stop caring. She is brown and that’s nice for you because she is hot, and in the mean time be happy for MANY people who feel represented for once.

would you look at that, we finally have something we disagree on again for a change m8

having an adverse reaction to lazy-recasting to fit a political agenda has nothing to do with alledged non-acceptance or tolerance for in this case black women or lead *insert minorities in modern day pop culture, with an emphasis on modern.

there's a very good reason why nobody has a problem with say: Black Panther or the huge range of diverse characters across the racial and sexual spectrum in a series like The Expanse or Arcane.


"blackwashing" movies like this for the sake of pushing diversity is a bit like re-painting the mona lisa as an obese man next time around in the restauration to "represent that minority in Leonardo's corpus of works". Its lazy ideological propaganda pushed into genuine art pieces and something certain authoritarian regimes throughout history by the way constantly did with their history and art in order to fit the zeitgeist narrative. This leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths, (and not just evil straight white male ones) and I don’t blame them.

it, aside from that is the complete wrong way to uplift minorities into modern day pop culture. just ramming them into existing art for the sake of "representation" I find utterly condescending.

"don't worry insert minority, the huatie savior is here to help you achieve things in life by inserting you into random existing art other white people put their love and care in up before us...there we fixed it by making pinnochio transgender!!...job well done pat-pat." I wouldn’t even call it Woke as it does a disservice to the concept of Woke in general (< and yes, that’s coming from me) Its just lazy white-guilt.


This generates the complete opposite effect intended. People hate it precisely because it feels fake/contrived and very much part of a fingerwagging "the message" (which it is). Its the movie equivalent of Steroid Trance remixing an old classic like Saltwater, with an added black rapper sample on top of it to fit all the racial checkmarks.

I'm all for whatever range of people on the white screen. I am however all against lazy ideological re-creates. Because that’s not how you make New Heroes….it’s how you make plastic fakery

Edit: I just found this and its just so spot on that i'm going to post hoc edit this in.

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

Because that’s not how you make New Heroes….it’s how you make plastic fakery

Oh there's deffo a truth to this. We don't disagree on all aspects of this.

Hollywood... the gaming industry... it's fucking broken, right?

Call of Duty 400... everyone buys it. Fast and Furious 1000, everyone loves it.

Creativity isn't rewarded anymore.

This re-hash is on the one hand indeed... cheap. It's perhaps not the best example for my rant. I must admit though... secretly... that I really liked the Lion King "real life" rendition. Nostalgia probably.

 

[Jetflag]

Oh there's deffo a truth to this. We don't disagree on all aspects of this.

damnit. and here I was hoping you and I could have a nice hensmonnightmare thread about this

Hollywood... the gaming industry... it's fucking broken, right?

Call of Duty 400... everyone buys it. Fast and Furious 1000, everyone loves it.

Creativity isn't rewarded anymore.

This re-hash is on the one hand indeed... cheap. It's perhaps not the best example for my rant. I must admit though... secretly... that I really liked the Lion King "real life" rendition. Nostalgia probably.

Well look, ÍF you have to a remake of an existing film (which again, as a concept I personally don't like for the aforementioned reasons of creative bankrupcy, You'd think indeed that a multi million dollar company could at least hire one competent creative writer, but that aside)

The Lion King is the way to do it. Same goes for Beauty and the Beast or Alladin. All these remakes actually did pretty well and stuck, minor neccesairy changes aside, to the ethos of the source material without overtly pushing a top down imposed agenda

Mulan on the other hand was an absolute flop, whilst the original casting looked just fine. They didn't, however, stick to the source material and instead got rid of a lot of the original beloved caracters and story line, instead focussing heavily on trying to make this a succes in China, which is a top-down imposed agenda.

So its twofold I think. 1, there's a problem with remakes as they're well.....not very interresting creativly 2, the need to when you perse have do a remake, somehow not actualy not wanting to do a remake which, as far as I can see, makes it flop every single time.

 

[Progrez]

 

[brandonl]

The transformer movies are so dumb. Nothing will ever come close to the original transformers tv series, the movie, beast wars, beast machines, war for cybertron etc...

 

[Archon]

The Banshees of Inisherin (2022)

What the fuck did I just watch...

The movie leaves a really strong impression without me actually being able to put the plot into words. I just haven't watched anything similar, and I watched some gloomy videos from the McDonagh bros. Might not rank this above these, but it still is very very good. Haven't watched many movies from this year but this one would surely be a top choice for me.

 

[dmgtz96]

Well, looks like I missed this thread.

Nothing wrong with colour but the original little mermaid was never a black character it was written in 1836 by a danish wrier. It's very woke kind of move to change colours just to showcase the current woke and cancel culture of today.

What if, (and I'm not sure this was already mentioned), what if the actress cast as the little mermaid was genuinely the *best* candidate for the role? Should she be excluded because of her skin color, even if she objectively performed better than the other candidates?
The Little Mermaid is a musical fantasy film, so surely a young pop star would be one of the best fits for the role, no?

 

[dmgtz96]

would you look at that, we finally have something we disagree on again for a change m8

having an adverse reaction to lazy-recasting to fit a political agenda has nothing to do with alledged non-acceptance or tolerance for in this case black women or lead *insert minorities in modern day pop culture, with an emphasis on modern.

there's a very good reason why nobody has a problem with say: Black Panther or the huge range of diverse characters across the racial and sexual spectrum in a series like The Expanse or Arcane.


"blackwashing" movies like this for the sake of pushing diversity is a bit like re-painting the mona lisa as an obese man next time around in the restauration to "represent that minority in Leonardo's corpus of works". Its lazy ideological propaganda pushed into genuine art pieces and something certain authoritarian regimes throughout history by the way constantly did with their history and art in order to fit the zeitgeist narrative. This leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths, (and not just evil straight white male ones) and I don’t blame them.

it, aside from that is the complete wrong way to uplift minorities into modern day pop culture. just ramming them into existing art for the sake of "representation" I find utterly condescending.

"don't worry insert minority, the huatie savior is here to help you achieve things in life by inserting you into random existing art other white people put their love and care in up before us...there we fixed it by making pinnochio transgender!!...job well done pat-pat." I wouldn’t even call it Woke as it does a disservice to the concept of Woke in general (< and yes, that’s coming from me) Its just lazy white-guilt.

This is all assuming that Halley Bailey was not cast for her artistic talent but instead due to her skin color, which I don't think is what happened. At the end of the day, if her acting/singing is crap, we will know if she was cast due to her merit or due to her immutable characteristics.
(If the movie itself is trash, but her performance is fine, then it's not her fault but instead the producers'/directors'/etc)

 

[Progrez]

Well, looks like I missed this thread.

What if, (and I'm not sure this was already mentioned), what if the actress cast as the little mermaid was genuinely the *best* candidate for the role? Should she be excluded because of her skin color, even if she objectively performed better than the other candidates?
The Little Mermaid is a musical fantasy film, so surely a young pop star would be one of the best fits for the role, no?

If she was the best and no she should not be excluded from the role at all. If you can do it well why not show it to the world? Her hair is all wrong too curly as opposed to straight of course they've used straighteners. It's not even the skin colour it doesn't sound like the ones that were depicted in the books and the cartoon as well. You want to try to get it close to cannon as possible without pissing off the fans like they have polarised the star trek, star wars, lord of the rings in the fantasy and science fiction world.

 

[dmgtz96]

If she was the best and no she should not be excluded from the role at all. If you can do it well why not show it to the world? Her hair is all wrong too curly as opposed to straight of course they've used straighteners. It's not even the skin colour it doesn't sound like the ones that were depicted in the books and the cartoon as well. You want to try to get it close to cannon as possible without pissing off the fans like they have polarised the star trek, star wars, lord of the rings in the fantasy and science fiction world.

Three more thoughts. I don't think her hair *needs* to be straightened, and her natural hair is fine for this interpretation of Ariel. Adults familiar with the cannon are not the target audience of this movie, so there is no need for Disney to walk on eggshells and "avoid pissing off the fans." Lastly, this version of Ariel doesn't *need* to be close to the cannon - in 2022, there is no reason to depict Ariel as specifically a white red-headed Caucasian woman.

 

[Jetflag]

which I don't think is what happened

why would you think that, given Disney's open (dis) position on matters like "representation" , inclusion" as opposed to "merrit" or "artistic intengrity"

Lastly, this version of Ariel doesn't *need* to be close to the cannon - in 2022, there is no reason to depict Ariel as specifically a white red-headed Caucasian woman.

yes, it does. In the same way that say: the role of Shaka Zulu or Scipio Africanus, shouldn't be played by Stephen Fry regardless of his talent, but instead a Black actor. Goes for flopped box offices like say The Dark Tower aswell.

If cannon and the fact that the little mermaid is a Nordic fairytale (so white red-headed Caucasian, also as such described by H.C. Anderson) where truly irrelevant, They wouldn't copy paste everything from said cannon as given (story, setting, dialogue, title, song etc.) and just replace Ariel with a black women, They would have made something new/original. Like say: Avatar (in where native indians are depicted as blue-fish people, basically pocahontas/dances with wolves in space)

This choice is neither artistic, nor merrit based. Its political, ideological, As evidenced by the slue of articles praising this choice NOT for its faithfull adaptation, artistic creativity or actress's talent, but instead solely focussing on "how black girls can identify with it"

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

If two woman are perfect for the role:

- a white beautiful woman
- a colored beautiful woman

the brain unconsciously will prefer the white one. That’s how hidden discrimination works. The brain picks white men over woman for the same reason.

I think it’s good to consciously think about this and take it into consideration. Choose the one that might not be picked, given they are equally strong.

You gotta start somewhere. I don’t think Disney pushed it too far be choosing the wonderful Halle Berry (spelling).

 

[Jetflag]

If two woman are perfect for the role:

- a white beautiful woman
- a colored beautiful woman

the brain unconsciously will prefer the white one. That’s how hidden discrimination works. The brain picks white men over woman for the same reason.

Twofold wrong:

1 there is no such thing as equally perfect for the role. Human beings vary to much on the individual spectrum for that, now i'll happily accept the option that, as @dmgtz96 seems to believe, the colored beautifull woman was somehow out of all candidates solely perfect for the role, but i sincerely doubt it for the above mentioned reasons.

2 If that where the case every single actor or actress would be white and the entire cast of Black Panther (or Blade) would be Caucasian. This is not the case. unconscious tribal preference towards one's own (which does exist) is evidently not a determining factor in casting especially in a diverse place like LA/ Hollywood.

I think it’s good to consciously think about this and take it into consideration. Choose the one that might not be picked, given they are equally strong.

You gotta start somewhere. I don’t think Disney pushed it too far be choosing the wonderful Halle Berry (spelling).

You can start by doing what Black Panther did. Make new, wholesome and original role models. Especially if your concern is white dominance in art.

how condescending can you get....when basically communicating towards the black community: "hey listen, black people..we know you're very artistic and all? but why don't we, for the sake of your girls, just use this piece of succesfull white, nordic art and just replace the main caracter with a black woman? "

Race swapping = Racist in and of itself and is the wrong way of bringing more inclusivity in today's entertainment.

 

[Progrez]

Twofold wrong:

1 there is no such thing as equally perfect for the role. Human beings vary to much on the individual spectrum for that, now i'll happily accept the option that, as @dmgtz96 seems to believe, the colored beautifull woman was somehow out of all candidates solely perfect for the role, but i sincerely doubt it for the above mentioned reasons.

2 If that where the case every single actor or actress would be white and the entire cast of Black Panther (or Blade) would be Caucasian. This is not the case. unconscious tribal preference towards one's own (which does exist) is evidently not a determining factor in casting especially in a diverse place like LA/ Hollywood.



You can start by doing what Black Panther did. Make new, wholesome and original role models. Especially if your concern is white dominance in art.

how condescending can you get....when basically communicating towards the black community: "hey listen, black people..we know you're very artistic and all? but why don't we, for the sake of your girls, just use this piece of succesfull white, nordic art and just replace the main caracter with a black woman? "

Race swapping = Racist in and of itself and is the wrong way of bringing more inclusivity in today's entertainment.

Also, I don't know there was a backlash when they changed Nick Fury too. Apparently, it's called racelifting

Online anger erupts over blockbuster's 'racelifting'

The casting of a black actor to play Marvel's 'white' Avenger Nick Fury has sparked an audience backlash

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Jetflag]

Also, I don't know there was a backlash when they changed Nick Fury too. Apparently, it's called racelifting

Online anger erupts over blockbuster's 'racelifting'

The casting of a black actor to play Marvel's 'white' Avenger Nick Fury has sparked an audience backlash

www.independent.co.uk

True but T.B.H. I don't have much of a problem with that, or with say: dr Liet Kynes being a black woman, or Admiral Robert April being Afro American etc. Blade was sufficiently Caucasion when the caracter was first introduced, but seen as it was a minor caracter in the spiderman francise nobody took issue with Snipes being cast and his amazing preformance.

You're not taking anything away from the existing lore or in this case fairytale. In fact in case of Kynes I actually think its an improvement in terms of consistency and narrative in case of Dune.

It would, however, again be a different story if:

- Captain America is now an obese lesbian "for the fat kids and body positivity"
- Paul Artreides is now a Chinese trans-nonbinary person "for the asian LGBTQ123xyz community"
- Captain Kirk would all of a sudden be Benjamin Sisko's anchient ancestor etc. "for even more black representation then startrek already has"
- Or black panther in 20 years being a straight white male because this nonsense is going to come round to white people sooner or later.

 

[dmgtz96]

- Or black panther in 20 years being a straight white male because this nonsense is going to come round to white people sooner or later.

Punching up is allowed, but punching down isn't. Unless straight white males somehow lose major social standing within the next 20 years, replacing a white character with a non-white character will always be more "socially acceptable" than the opposite.