Conservative or liberal (politics)

[Jetflag]

Goodbye.. friend.

 

[Katadunkass]

 

[LostLegend]

Jonathan Pie nailing it again.
"They had all the reasons to NOT vote for one candidate and NO reason to vote for the other"

Oof!

 

[dmgtz96]

Jonathan Pie nailing it again.
"They had all the reasons to NOT vote for one candidate and NO reason to vote for the other"

Oof!

This was men's election, even though the entire election, abortion rights were at the forefront. Men just showed that, if they put themselves first, they can just get rid of liberal democracy in an instant.

Edit: holy shit, I like this guy.

 

[Jetflag]

This is one thing that particularly annoyed me during the whole Dem campain... the sentiment that, "if trump wins democracy has died" like, how precisely?

what do you mean by "democracy" then?

- is it the will and whims of the democratic party?
- the bureaucracy in Washington?
- the fact that policies or a president has been put in place that you don't like but the majority of the country fairly voted in (as far as we know)?

Liberal democracy as far as I know in a nutshell is: Limited government power in a rule-by-the-people-majority-vote system, with a constitution of sorts that protects the rights and freedoms of the individuals therein from mob-rule.

Trump is pro constitution, pro- less government, pro individual, and concerning abortion rights he made it very clear that he will veto any national abortion ban that the senate proposes. His wife is against it, so is Kennedy, so is musk, so is gabbard etc. Like if he lost the popular vote again like in 2016 i'd say you had a point as in: there's a skewed democratic representation in who gets to rule but even thats not the case this time around..

 

[dmgtz96]

This is one thing that particularly annoyed me during the whole Dem campain... the sentiment that, "if trump wins democracy has died" like, how precisely?

what do you mean by "democracy" then?

- is it the will and whims of the democratic party?
- the bureaucracy in Washington?
- the fact that policies or a president has been put in place that you don't like but the majority of the country fairly voted in (as far as we know)?

Liberal democracy as far as I know in a nutshell is: Limited government power in a rule-by-the-people-majority-vote system, with a constitution of sorts that protects the rights and freedoms of the individuals therein from mob-rule.

Trump is pro constitution, pro- less government, pro individual, and concerning abortion rights he made it very clear that he will veto any national abortion ban that the senate proposes. His wife is against it, so is Kennedy, so is musk, so is gabbard etc. Like if he lost the popular vote again like in 2016 i'd say you had a point as in: there's a skewed democratic representation in who gets to rule but even thats not the case this time around..

Sorry, I meant it literally as in liberal. The US just became... a conservative democracy, lol. I would argue that Trump was more democratically "chosen" than Harris, since AFAIK she was imposed onto Democrats because the dems didn't have primaries. So, the democratic voter base didn't actually vote for her to represent their party.

 

[Jetflag]

Sorry, I meant it literally as in liberal. The US just became... a conservative democracy, lol. I would argue that Trump was more democratically "chosen" than Harris, since AFAIK she was imposed onto Democrats because the dems didn't have primaries. So, the democratic voter base didn't actually vote for her to represent their party.

ah gotcha.

not gonna split hairs but the conservatives are actually liberal aswell, Your country, philosphically speaking, is (very simplified)
a push/pull republic between the liberal thought of J.J. Rousseau (dems) and John Locke (reps/liberatarians) So you are still a liberal democracy, just a more Lockian one

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

"if trump wins democracy has died" like, how precisely?

With him back in power, there’s a chance our democracy will be drastically reshaped - It's supposed to be free, fair, with liberty and justice for all, right?

We've now put Donald Trump of all people in charge of the gov't with a full mandate for change. And whether or not you support conservative ideology, let's be real: Trump’s always been corrupt, self-serving, and lacking integrity. His whole life has been about using people to build his own wealth and power, leaving collateral damage behind. He doesn’t care if the law stands in his way. Now, he’s basically above it; the Supreme Court has boosted the presidency, and he’s on a revenge tour. He’s even suggested that maybe if he’s elected, there won’t need to be more elections (he’ll say it’s sarcasm, but who actually knows?). He idolizes Orban in Hungary, and a lot of people worry that could be our future too. Last time he tried staying in power with fake electors - remember? So, with more power and less pushback, what’s next? Will he leave office? Will he pull us out of NATO? Will elections still happen like they used to? I doubt the founders ever imagined something like the MAGA movement, plus modern media, social media brainrot, and an apathetic public lacking critical thinking skills. Oh, and also, Trump in power possibly at the same time as private companies pursuing AGI. We’re definitely in some interesting times.

I hope the new wing of MAGA doesn’t take things too far too fast, though they’re promising the opposite. Still, I don’t see the point in despairing - nobody knows for sure what’s coming. But I’d probably feel different if I were LGBTQ, a woman, a minority, or living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[Jetflag]

With him back in power, there’s a chance our democracy will be drastically reshaped - It's supposed to be free, fair, with liberty and justice for all, right?

We've now put Donald Trump of all people in charge of the gov't with a full mandate for change. And whether or not you support conservative ideology, let's be real: Trump’s always been corrupt, self-serving, and lacking integrity. His whole life has been about using people to build his own wealth and power, leaving collateral damage behind. He doesn’t care if the law stands in his way. Now, he’s basically above it; the Supreme Court has boosted the presidency, and he’s on a revenge tour. He’s even suggested that maybe if he’s elected, there won’t need to be more elections (he’ll say it’s sarcasm, but who actually knows?). He idolizes Orban in Hungary, and a lot of people worry that could be our future too. Last time he tried staying in power with fake electors - remember? So, with more power and less pushback, what’s next? Will he leave office? Will he pull us out of NATO? Will elections still happen like they used to? I doubt the founders ever imagined something like the MAGA movement, plus modern media, social media brainrot, and an apathetic public lacking critical thinking skills. Oh, and also, Trump in power possibly at the same time as private companies reach AGI. We’re definitely in some interesting times.


I hope the new wing of MAGA doesn’t take things too far too fast, though they’re promising the opposite. Still, I don’t see the point in despairing - nobody knows for sure what’s coming. But I’d probably feel different if I were LGBTQ, a woman, a minority, or living paycheck to paycheck.

he does have carte blanche now yeah, and given his trademark "speak a lot say little" way of speaking I can definitely see that as worrying for the opposite camp.

then again, he has been president before eh? you'd think that if he where genuinely interested and sceming to turn the USA into the next Rome under Nero we'd see more evidence of that then just one riot on jan 6th, after which he did, albeit with not a lot of grace and decency given his ego, factually concede power peacefully probably knowing full well they'd come after him.

You can say a lot about the man (and we all definitly have) but he, at the very least, seems to genuinly love his country, and so frankly the idea of him plotting to turn the country into an actuall one party-fascist dictatorship within the 4 years he has left seems a bit bizar to me, giving that one virtuous side of his caracter at least.

but we'll see, we are indeed living in interresting times.

the way I read it (but i could be wrong) he intends for the USA to return to " the glory days" so to speak. He doesn't seem at all interrested in say: the putin or hitler road of increasing lebensraum via militairy means or having a state-apparatus that dictates all. On the contrary he seems to be handing more power to the individual states and wanting to reduce Washington's influence.

dunno, just trying to put a, to use a dutch phrase, "heart under your belt" so to speak

maybe it'll all be fine and, as @LostLegend put it, we'll wave him off into the sunset come 2028 and we can have some normal politics again.

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

….You can say a lot about the man (and we all definitly have) but he, at the very least, seems to genuinly love his country…

100s of people have confirmed DJT loves only himself, sadly. If this country can help him, he will use it as needed. The guy is a walking national security risk as well. There is like, zero chance with his past and connections he could have gotten a security clearance any other way. No point in bringing up his many abuses of power, b/c it’s just death by 1000 cuts, administered over such a period that the public has become desensitized to how outside norms (and law) they are.

 

[Jetflag]

100s of people have confirmed DJT loves only himself, sadly. If this country can help him, he will use it as needed. The guy is a walking national security risk as well. There is like, zero chance with his past and connections he could have gotten a security clearance any other way. No point in bringing up his many abuses of power, b/c it’s just death by 1000 cuts, administered over such a period that the public has become desensitized to how outside norms (and law) they are.

Yeah but the one doesn’t have to exclude all the others you know.. one can love one’s self/ be a narcist whilst still loving the place that birthed him/ his family

 

[LostLegend]

It’ll be interesting to see how long Musk and RFKjr last on his staff.

Trump is a notoriously difficult man to work for as we saw by his regular firing and hiring of cabinet staff during his last term.

RFKjr in particular seems the type who would stand his ground rather than concede on matters he believes in and Trump very much seems the type who wants his subordinates to fall in line.

 

[Jetflag]

It’ll be interesting to see how long Musk and RFKjr last on his staff.

Trump is a notoriously difficult man to work for as we saw by his regular firing and hiring of cabinet staff during his last term.

RFKjr in particular seems the type who would stand his ground rather than concede on matters he believes in and Trump very much seems the type who wants his subordinates to fall in line.

indeed. Musk actually left the Trump administration the first time around, or at least the advisary board.

Though it has to be said that last time round Trump sort of stumbled into office, not really knowing what the job contained and, as a businessman/entertainer throughout his career, being surrounded by a bunch of absolute politicians. That's different now. He has had 8 years to reflect on this and draw lessons from it. Plus he has surrounded himself pre-hoc with people that aligned themselves his vision (or parts thereof) before he even won the presidency.

Old ways do die hard though. I actually think that, out of the two of them, Musk is and his weaponized autism might stand his ground even firmer in case of a clash.

we will c. Popcorn cans out.

 

[LostLegend]

we will c. Popcorn cans out.

Oh for sure.
As much as I am not a fan of the man, I can’t deny he is absolute box-office levels of entertaining at times.

I cannot name another world leader in my life time that I would stay up til past midnight so I can watch a debate to see how much crazy shit they are going to say in the space of an hour

 

[Hensmon]

RFKjr in particular seems the type who would stand his ground rather than concede on matters he believes in and Trump very much seems the type who wants his subordinates to fall in line.

According to RFK they both agreed that they can disagree and criticize each publicly other on issues where they disagree. Honestly though Kennedy is so focused on his mission to reverse the health crisis that I think he'll do whatever it takes to make that happens (even joining with and tolerating Trump).

It's thanks to his campaign that we have more and more US citizens finally becoming aware of how bad the public health situation is... the US is the sickest nation on earth. Think how crazy that is! And how even more crazy it is that he was the only candidate in the election cycle talking about it. The good that man will do now is probably going to be immeasurable.

 

[LostLegend]

CERN need to start answering questions on what ever the hell they were doing back in 2012, ‘cause they’ve thrown us into the most cursed timeline.

DOGE department & a Fox News host in government… what on Earth

 

[Jetflag]

So..

 

[Jetflag]

a Fox News host in government… what on Earth

Alex Jones said he would accept the role as Trump's Press secretary if asked..

 

[LostLegend]

Alex Jones said he would accept the role as Trump's Press secretary if asked..

Fully expecting Joe Rogan to get a call up tbh

 

[SaltAcidFatHeatAcid]

Gaetz as AG. Not an onion headline.

edit: and since lots on here seem to treat Trump as a rational actor with a serious foreign policy agenda, look at the rest of the cabinet nominees. Weeeeeee this is gonna be fun (not).