Conservative or liberal (politics)

[dmgtz96]

in my (limited) leaning libertarian view on the matter, what you need is to get rid of most of the massive middle management layers and kafka esq government interference. Small bureaucracy, local (provincial/municipal) hospitals

The Blairite model of the NHS "being ran like a company" whilst at the same time trying to be full on national government funded socialized healthcare (without any real market competition or profit incentive) along with all the bureaucracy that inevitably comes with that, --> Is never going to work, ever...no matter how much money you pump into it.

my advice would be: look at the Scots. If you have to have nationalized healthcare.. spread out, fragmented and with minimal (big) government. alternatively you can adopt a French/Dutch model. (but you're going to feel that in your tax-reports)

Essential services like health or even the postal service shouldn't be run like a company, imo. They exist to provide service for the population, not to be profit centers. This is why the idea of Trump running the country "like a business" was terrible.

 

[jetflag]

Essential services like health or even the postal service shouldn't be run like a company, imo. They exist to provide service for the population, not to be profit centers. This is why the idea of Trump running the country "like a business" was terrible.

No. They definitely should. If not you end up with situations like Cuba. Governments role should limit itself to things like quality check, but not running it

just because something is a public service doesn’t mean therefor government. A great local example from my country is the KMRM

 

[dmgtz96]

No. They definitely should. If not you end up with situations like Cuba. Governments role should limit itself to things like quality check, but not running it

just because something is a public service doesn’t mean therefor government. A great local example from my country is the KMRM

In the US, for-profit Healthcare still has the same bureaucratic issues that you don't like from government-run services, except that Americans get swindled and can't even seek medical care without breaking the bank. I'd rather have state-run Healthcare that people can actually use, even if shitty, instead of fancy Healthcare run by a private corporation that rips off everyone.

 

[jetflag]

In the US, for-profit Healthcare still has the same bureaucratic issues that you don't like from government-run services, except that Americans get swindled and can't even seek medical care without breaking the bank. I'd rather have state-run Healthcare that people can actually use, even if shitty, instead of fancy Healthcare run by a private corporation that rips off everyone.

State run as opposed to federal run healthcare I think is the way to go, if you want government run healthcare that is, for the us yeah,

One thing to keep in mind though:

- you ARE breaking the bank as an average citizen, except it’ll be in the form of taxes for healthcare, but also things like (among which) sugar taxor obliged sport programs in schools

if government receives taxes from you (so you know, their “profit” if you will). They don’t have an incentive to give you proper healthcare, they have an incentive to keep you out of healthcare as much as possible, since that’s cheaper, and when you do provide you with the bare minimum.

at the end of the day if you, as a healthy dem voting US citizen are ok with defacto paying the bill for a Mac chugling obese white trump supporter/ republican… then sure vote governors in who can implement such a state- funded healthcare system for all

 

[Progrez]

I thought I would never the see the name Geert Wilders in the news again. I was wrong. He has got such strong views on Anti Muslim/Islam.

 

[jetflag]

I thought I would never the see the name Geert Wilders in the news again. I was wrong. He has got such strong views on Anti Muslim/Islam.

Anti-islam, Not anti-muslim.

He has actually significantly toned down on the idea of "banning islam" over the years and in recent party program (though he still sees it as an existential thread to the west), because he knows its
a) constitutionally impossible
b) practically undoable.

And thats not even going into him having to make concessions in an attempt to form a coalition in case of an electoral victory.


I don't/didn't vote for him or his party out of prinicple, to me the way its setup is way to topdown, undemocratic and actually way to (authoritarian) left-leaning in my regards..

but, fun fact: I personally know of at least 3 morrocan/turks who voted for Wilders this turn.

 

[Magnevi]

Everything is fine, as long as you didn't vote Baudet

 

[jetflag]

Everything is fine, as long as you didn't vote Baudet

maybe i did, who knows

 

[dmgtz96]

@jetlag, what's with the rise of right wing politics in the Netherlands? I heard that you guys voted in a right wing candidate.

No judgment btw, genuinely curious. Seems to follow the trend of right wing politicians getting elected all across the world

 

[jetflag]

@jetlag, what's with the rise of right wing politics in the Netherlands? I heard that you guys voted in a right wing candidate.

No judgment btw, genuinely curious. Seems to follow the trend of right wing politicians getting elected all across the world

Well I didn’t heh, I don’t vote wilders principally.

but yes,it’s not just the Netherlands , it’s France, Poland, Hungary, sweden, Italy , Greece etc. It’s all over the board.

and I think it boils down too two main reasons:

1 the left/ open border liberals simply not having an answer to the migrant crisis other then “it’s a good thing just shutup, pleb”

2 increasing demands and (undemocratic/unsovereighn) powergrasps by the eu and/or left wing parties

both things most average citizens simply aren’t on board with, but seen as they can’t vote von der leyen out and/or regulate their own borders anymore

people automatically turn to political parties with national/ populus interests at heart.

 

[dmgtz96]

Well I didn’t heh, I don’t vote wilders principally.

but yes,it’s not just the Netherlands , it’s France, Poland, Hungary, sweden, Italy , Greece etc. It’s all over the board.

and I think it boils down too two main reasons:

1 the left/ open border liberals simply not having an answer to the migrant crisis other then “it’s a good thing just shutup, pleb”

2 increasing demands and (undemocratic/unsovereighn) powergrasps by the eu and/or left wing parties

both things most average citizens simply aren’t on board with, but seen as they can’t vote von der leyen out and/or regulate their own borders anymore

people automatically turn to political parties with national/ populus interests at heart.

I would also say, at least in the US and certain other countries (maybe not in Europe?) 3. People in general this decade are not doing OK. Everyone is getting screwed over by inflation, we see the threat of war, instability, a grim future, which then pushes part of the population toward the right. I can see how the immigration crisis in Europe led to the victory of this Netherlands politician, though

 

[facade1984]

I dunno where we currently are in the conversation but I think a big problem today is that we look at everything as either black or white. the whole israel/palestine thing is a good example, like if you condemn one you have to condone the other which just isn't true, both have blood on their hands. I don't believe any honest person is all conservative or all liberal. we gotta stop looking at political views like it's our whole identity. yes I also realise the naivety of expecting the internet to behave rationally though

 

[dmgtz96]

I dunno where we currently are in the conversation but I think a big problem today is that we look at everything as either black or white. the whole israel/palestine thing is a good example, like if you condemn one you have to condone the other which just isn't true, both have blood on their hands. I don't believe any honest person is all conservative or all liberal. we gotta stop looking at political views like it's our whole identity. yes I also realise the naivety of expecting the internet to behave rationally though

This is a big problem in the US because we only have two major political parties. From an European perspective, our Democrats are center (baaarely left), and our Republicans are deep far right.

The Israel/Palestine conflict is a topic that no one wants to touch with a 10 ft pole. You *will* get fired or get your job offers rescinded for voicing your opinion, especially if it's pro-Palestine. That happened to a few college students who lost top job offers for voicing support for Palestinians.