Conservative or liberal (politics)

[Archon]

Im enjoying life right now.

Everyone does in their 20s and 30s. So do I.

But you rarely see a 55+ year old who says: "No, I'm not looking forward to retiring at all."

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

But you rarely see a 55+ year old who says: "No, I'm not looking forward to retiring at all."

I see many people who can’t imagine doing nothing.
Much depends on whether you like your job? That’s a different issue.

 

[dmgtz96]

I see many people who can’t imagine doing nothing.
Much depends on whether you like your job? That’s a different issue.

Some people's identities are so tied up into their job that, yes, they cannot imagine themselves doing nothing.
Me, I like my job but I would prefer to watch TV or get into gardening or travel instead of continuing to slave away for a mega corporation once I'm over 55.

Everyone does in their 20s and 30s. So do I.

But you rarely see a 55+ year old who says: "No, I'm not looking forward to retiring at all."

Yup, even the more senior engineers in my department are looking forward to retiring. It's not that they hate their jobs, but they've been working for 20-30+ years already.

 

[Archon]

out of all systems we have available to us Capitalism demonstrably works best

That makes it sound like there's only capitalism, and only socialism, and only Marxism etc.

There surely must be some compromise in order to do good to the state, the capital, and the masses.

Unfortunately, all are pretty vulnerable to corruption.

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

Some people's identities are so tied up into their job that, yes, they cannot imagine themselves doing nothing.
Me, I like my job but I would prefer to watch TV or get into gardening or travel instead of continuing to slave away for a mega corporation once I'm over 55.

1. Not the identity-thing, it’s more socially. Workspace is where you socialize. People don’t want to miss that. And in the meantime having something to do, contribute, be useful.
2. TV? Comon, you’ll be bored quickly wondering what your goal is….
3. Why do you work for a mega corporation if you see it as slavery? You’re not forced to work there, are you?

 

[Archon]

Some people's identities are so tied up into their job that, yes, they cannot imagine themselves doing nothing.
Me, I like my job but I would prefer to watch TV or get into gardening or travel instead of continuing to slave away for a mega corporation once I'm over 55.


Yup, even the more senior engineers in my department are looking forward to retiring. It's not that they hate their jobs, but they've been working for 20-30+ years already.

I think you nailed it (highlighted the key part). For most, the jobs we do, even if currently enjoyable, in the end it feels like we just did something to benefit of someone or something we don't really care about. You were rewarded in money, which is all spent (health, bills, life), but no sense of purpose in any of it. In the end, the world moves on and only you remember the effort you made...

In order to enjoy working past 50-55, you either need to work doing something worthy of public recognition, something that brings real joy, or embrace the self-improvement mindset.

 

[dmgtz96]

1. Not the identity-thing, it’s more socially. Workspace is where you socialize. People don’t want to miss that. And in the meantime having something to do, contribute, be useful.
2. TV? Comon, you’ll be bored quickly wondering what your goal is….
3. Why do you work for a mega corporation if you see it as slavery? You’re not forced to work there, are you?

1. Sure, the workplace is where almost everyone socializes because that's where we all spend half of our awake hours 5 days a week. Even if you WFH you're still "socializing" (kinda) with your coworkers through Microsoft Teams. However, what if we didn't have to spend 40 hs a week? You would be able to spend more time on your interests, classes, hobby-related clubs and activities with people who share your interests. Work isn't too different from school tbh. At work you're forced to interact with people who outside of work you might or might not have befriended. The only thing in common with your coworkers could very well be that you're there for a paycheck. In school, the only thing in common is that you live nearby (and thus have to go to your district's school) or your parents are paying tuition and fees so you can attend the same school as your classmates.
2. I would agree, if TV is all you have going for you outside of work then yeah life without work is going to be really boring.
3. Usually mega corps offer the best pay/benefits/hours. I've heard of work being more inherently fulfilling at smaller companies that perform specialized work, but the hours tend to be worse and they pay less. At the end of the day, bills have to be paid, so most people can't just simply call it quits. That's a quick way to get your car repo'd or your house foreclosed. But this all leads to a bigger discussion about affordable housing, affordable cars / walkable cities, and just being able to exist without having to trade your time in return for a wage.

 

[Jetflag]

That makes it sound like there's only capitalism, and only socialism, and only Marxism etc.

There surely must be some compromise in order to do good to the state, the capital, and the masses.

Unfortunately, all are pretty vulnerable to corruption.

socialism = marxism, but yes.. there are only two general directions when it comes to market. There is (currently) no third philosophical market-option, aside from maybe full-on feudalism, that breaks that dichotomy and that doesn't place itself firmly in the spectrum between those two.

 

[Jetflag]

just being able to exist without having to trade your time in return for a wage.

The nature of reality/this universe simply forbids that. Going by entropy alone.

Even if you where to go full anarcho-primitivist, you would still have to feed yourself, shelter yourself and protect yourself. And that, one way or another, involves arbeit, or translated to a system that utilizes a universal payment system to exchange for said goods.

no free lunch in this universe sorry, but thats just the way it is.

 

[dmgtz96]

The nature of reality/this universe simply forbids that. Going by entropy alone.

Even if you where to go full anarcho-primitivist, you would still have to feed yourself, shelter yourself and protect yourself. And that, one way or another, involves arbeit, or translated to a system that utilizes a universal payment system to exchange for said goods.

no free lunch in this universe sorry, but thats just the way it is.

We'll have to figure it out. With AI and technological advancements eventually we'll reach a point where we can't keep everyone employed (where the Soviet Union failed, and where a bunch of Asian countries and even the US are starting to fail).

 

[dmgtz96]

Meanwhile, still in the topic of conservative vs liberal...

Holy shit Trump's "arrest" is starting to feel real. It's rare that someone of his social/financial standing faces consequences.

Btw, NYC (or any of the major cities) don't fuck around. Jan 6th can't happen. If the proud boys try to do that again, they will get their asses beat by local NYC residents.

 

[Jetflag]

We'll have to figure it out. With AI and technological advancements eventually we'll reach a point where we can't keep everyone employed (where the Soviet Union failed, and where a bunch of Asian countries and even the US are starting to fail).

Dreams are fading away - Video

166 points • 22 comments

9gag.com

 

[dmgtz96]

Dreams are fading away - Video

166 points • 22 comments

9gag.com

But for real, the only thing keeping me employed rn is that I *have* to go on-site, and a random bro who took coding classes online or graduated from a boot camp can't just waltz in and replace me

 

[Jetflag]

^wrong thread there m8

 

[Bobby Summa]

^wrong thread there m8

Moi, getting something wrong on thus forum? Surely, thats not like me. ( edit: it’s exactly like me) cheers chum. I only put it there as a response to working or retiring. Ie what gagi said, but the tune and most of my ramblings was very irrelevant i guess. Did you hear the track incidentally? Il delete that post as you’re correct in that its misplaced.
The tracks in our private convo if you have any time

 

[Bobby Summa]

Il just say that in the UK we have had a period of Conservative party. The party has dominated politics here in history. Its tricky to compare to other countries as each ( for example, US) has slightly different political approaches even with a similar name.

In the UK I have been most displeased with our current conservative party for so many years. As typical in the UK Conservative approach, they really blatantly don’t consider the people on the ground. It really seems a lot is done for those who don’t need it as much. I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason big companies are able to file there taxes abroad even if their UK based companies is that they provide a lot of support in other financial or influential ways to government. It stinks.

I’ve usually based who i vote on , not on the partys typical stance but whether the party is a group of co herent, people with intelligence and goid policies. Whether conservatives libral or labour. Each have positive and negative but its the people in the party (MP’s) who will influence the situation. I might say like liberal views, but we haven’t had a liberal party with any likelyhoid of getting in for years as at times, theyre almost non existent. So i think ahead. What individuals in this party are lijeto run things well. Id personally have loved jeremy corbyn to be prime minister, but he has far to many good human values to have ever got support.

 

[Jetflag]

Il just say that in the UK we have had a period of Conservative party. The party has dominated politics here in history. Its tricky to compare to other countries as each ( for example, US) has slightly different political approaches even with a similar name.

In the UK I have been most displeased with our current conservative party for so many years. As typical in the UK Conservative approach, they really blatantly don’t consider the people on the ground. It really seems a lot is done for those who don’t need it as much. I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason big companies are able to file there taxes abroad even if their UK based companies is that they provide a lot of support in other financial or influential ways to government. It stinks.

I’ve usually based who i vote on , not on the partys typical stance but whether the party is a group of co herent, people with intelligence and goid policies. Whether conservatives libral or labour. Each have positive and negative but its the people in the party (MP’s) who will influence the situation. I might say like liberal views, but we haven’t had a liberal party with any likelyhoid of getting in for years as at times, theyre almost non existent. So i think ahead. What individuals in this party are lijeto run things well. Id personally have loved jeremy corbyn to be prime minister, but he has far to many good human values to have ever got support.

What’s more and in that sense comparible with the Dutch VVD/CDA, is that the conservative party isn't at all actually conservative in their actions. They're only in their words/ campaign promises.


If you take a helicopter view from Cameron on..every single conservative promise and talking point used to rally voters (cutting down immigration, back to "old and traditional" values, free market, sovereignty, housing etc.) have all eventually been more immigration, full on adoption of foreign/internation "standards" with things like the rainbow police and arrests for mean tweets. and more government market regulation/ globalist market policies and less housing etc.

the Tories, much like the VVD or dutch CDA aren't conservative. They're just power hungry.

on the plus side: they have been pumping more money into the NHS than any previous administration. But then again if you don't fundamentally change its current kafkian nature and keep flooding the country with increasing numbers of potential patients well... its like mopping the floor with the tab still running.

 

[Bobby Summa]

What’s more and in that sense comparible with the Dutch VVD/CDA, is that the conservative party isn't at all actually conservative in their actions. They're only in their words/ campaign promises.


If you take a helicopter view from Cameron on..every single conservative promise and talking point used to rally voters (cutting down immigration, back to "old and traditional" values, free market, sovereignty, housing etc.) have all eventually been more immigration, full on adoption of foreign/internation "standards" with things like the rainbow police and arrests for mean tweets. and more government market regulation/ globalist market policies and less housing etc.

the Tories, much like the VVD or dutch CDA aren't conservative. They're just power hungry.

on the plus side: they have been pumping more money into the NHS than any previous administration. But then again if you don't fundamentally change its current kafkian nature and keep flooding the country with increasing numbers of potential patients well... its like mopping the floor with the tab still running.

Agree with much of that. Politicians are often good salesmen but their guarantee is often worthless.

I have a certain attitude to freedom of where some one lives but sensability and intelligence has to be incorporated in the decision made whether to allow someone in. Our capacity like you implied is a big factor.

Unfortunately tho NhS have had much funding, it appears to never be used correctly. Its a shame my fiancé got paid more 12 years ago for doing the exact same job. She was NHS then and is now. I however for being a NHS Therapy Assistant get £2 less per hour than someone working in a big mainstream Grocery store at a basic customer assistant position… Its humiliating. But there are other rewards in our work that kind off define why we do it in the first place. That helps. Teaching somebody to walk again is so rewarding.

I totally support the strikes though but empathise with those effected. The whole situation is very sad.

 

[Jetflag]

Agree with much of that. Politicians are often good salesmen but their guarantee is often worthless.

I have a certain attitude to freedom of where some one lives but sensability and intelligence has to be incorporated in the decision made whether to allow someone in. Our capacity like you implied is a big factor.

Unfortunately tho NhS have had much funding, it appears to never be used correctly. Its a shame my fiancé got paid more 12 years ago for doing the exact same job. I however for being a NHS Therapy Assistant get £2 less per hour than someone working in a big mainstream Grocery store at a basic customer assistant position… Its humiliating .
I totally support the strikes but empathise with those effected. The whole situation is very sad.

in my (limited) leaning libertarian view on the matter, what you need is to get rid of most of the massive middle management layers and kafka esq government interference. Small bureaucracy, local (provincial/municipal) hospitals

The Blairite model of the NHS "being ran like a company" whilst at the same time trying to be full on national government funded socialized healthcare (without any real market competition or profit incentive) along with all the bureaucracy that inevitably comes with that, --> Is never going to work, ever...no matter how much money you pump into it.

my advice would be: look at the Scots. If you have to have nationalized healthcare.. spread out, fragmented and with minimal (big) government. alternatively you can adopt a French/Dutch model. (but you're going to feel that in your tax-reports)

 

[dmgtz96]

Ron De Santis is such a moron. He's picking a fight with one of the most powerful and influential corporations in the world (Disney), and now he's bragging that he's fighting the woke *even though by the actual definition of woke that just means he's pro-systemic injustices*. He doesn't seem to have an actual platform for his constituents.
Hopefully a smarter Republican wins against him in the primaries, because oh boy he's going to get wrecked in the national election against a mildly competent Democrat.