Covid and vaccines and whatnot

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Br8k L3gnd

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Pages 36 and 42 of the study are jarring to look at, but what happens if you normalize by their respective unvaccinated, 1 dose, 2 dose, and booster/3rd dose populations?
This is one of those cases when you can lie with statistics, even if the data is coming from an honest source. It doesn't matter much if 80%-something of hospitalizations and deaths are coming from vaccinated people when 85-90% of the population has been jabbed. Of course most of your cases in hospitalizations and deaths will be from people that received a vaccination.
I'd be more interested in knowing, okay, how many hospitalizations and deaths are from unvaxx, and how many unvaxx people are there in total. My guess is that the % of people hospitalized/dying unvaxx relative to the total unvaxx population will be much, much higher than that for vaccinated people.
Maybe, but I dont
Lying around = recommended by one of your culture war heroes.

Ask yourselves why a resident of The Netherlands is interested in the Covid statics of Scotland. Or the mythical left wing takeover of USA university campuses. It is because a few select statistics can be accidentally or deliberately misinterpreted to support a particular agenda.










You are being played.
I think the people were played already. CDC admits to 42% of USA covid deaths are not due to covid. So the 800k is more like 450k. That should be enough to piss anyone off. Vaxxed or unvaxxed imo.
 
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dmgtz96

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how? where's the lie? point it out to me.
The figure you posted here is not part of the full report, nor does it appear in any of the trends and data on the Dashboard. This led me to believe the graph was made by someone else, who may not have truth in their best intentions.
EDIT: the typo in hospitalisations in the x-axis would be odd to see in an official government publication, and the "According to official Public Health Scotland COVID-19 statistical reports" looks like a citation. This was definitely not the work of a professional statistician.

if the claim was "this is a pandemic of the unvaxxed" as opposed to "a pandemic of the unvaxxed, single jabbed and 3times jabbed elderly people" you can't claim that tháts a lie based on lacking levels of sophistication without also dismissing the first claim as a lie/dishonest no? Not saying you personally did by the way, but thats the narrative being pushed.
The intent of the graph is to show that the vaccines are ineffective, i.e. 80% of the hospitalizations and deaths are from people who have been jabbed. But the % is meaningless if you're comparing the wrong things. Unvaxx and vaxx are completely different populations, so it's weird (and frankly, misleading) to add up both of their case #s and show that 80% of hospitalizations and deaths are from people who have been jabbed. Those numbers are expected to ramp up as the % vaccinated increases, as the % vaxx will always increase, and the % unvaxx will always decrease. You will only see so many cases pop up in unvaxx, but you will see more and more in vaxx.
Most cases perhaps, but surely not pretty much the exact same massive number?
Then its not a very effective vaccine in the grand sceme of things is it? or am I missing something here? Genuine question, honestly not throwing a shade at you but this makes 0 sense.
Those are good questions that should be answered by people much smarter than us.

well there's that small little uptick I mentioned. But it dwarfs in the overall scope of things.
according to said report. (allegedly, again, please show me where I/ they're going wrong here)

some 20% of the populus are unvaxx, some 80% are vaxed, which afiak is a status you only obtain when you're double jabbed.
some 25% of the unvax populus end up in the hospital beds, as opposed to the 75% jabbed.
some 20% of the unvaxxed die, and some 80% of the jabbed die.

^
Hold up. The 80% and 75% rates were obtained by adding up the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.
These figures just mean:
  • Of all the cases of acute hospitalizations, ~80% were in vaccinated, and ~20% were in unvaccinated
  • Of all the cases of deaths, ~85% were in vaccinated, and ~15% were in unvaccinated
This does not mean: 80% of all the vaccinated people went through acute hospitalizations

k again, where is the lie, precisely? because what I derrive from that is that the vaccines aren't very effective in curbing this pandemic, especially if you compare them with 2020 numbers when we had equally strict measures and 0 vacccines.
Where the lie is: see my first answer to you. For the rest of your comment, I don't know.

and if its a matter of sloppyness or misrepresentation, ok, why would an institute that is hell-bend on getting as many people vaccinated as possible put out a report like that? Thats not cutting yourself in the fingers, thats chopping of your own hand. Either the stats are genuine in which case the "this is a pandemic of the unvaxxed" narrative doesn't hold up. or they're false in which case why would they put it out if it only backfires at them?
I don't think it's sloppyness/misrepresentation on the Scotland government's part. I suspect the graph you uploaded did not come officially from them. Remember, these are professional statisticians who know very well how to represent data (and the truth), and who avoid the pitfalls in creating misleading graphs, tables, and dashboards.

Regardless, calling this the "pandemic of the unvaxxed" is a bad move. Omicron is hitting both vaxx and unvaxx awfully. From my perspecrtive, all I care about is that I don't die from COVID or have any long-term effects, and I did not have any secondary effects from 2x moderna and booster.
 
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jetflag

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Fine, let's do some math. You're an architect, so I will assume that you have a basic understanding of statistics and are comfortable with percent calculations.
yup, although admittedly most math I do for my work is mainly stuff like basic construction calculations for rough dimension estimates but that aside.

Acute hospital admissions
545 unvaxx'd were admitted to the hospital. 1648 vaccinated were admitted. (Add up the 4 weeks for unvaxx, and sum up the 4 weeks for vacc, whether that is 1 dose, 2 doses, or 3 doses).

The acute hospital admission rate relative to their respective populations is:
Unvaxx: 545 / 20,000 ~ 2.73%
Vaxx: 1648 / 80,000 ~ 2.06%

Comparing the rates of unvaxx vs. vaxx:

(% unvaxx - % vaxx) / % vaxx = 32.3%. According to the data, If you're unvaccinated, you're 32.3% more likely to experience an acute hospital admission compared to a vaccinated person.


Death rates:
Unvaxx: 46 / 20,000 ~ 0.23%
Vaxx: 194 / 80,000 ~ 0.243%


This is very interesting, as the death rates of unvaxx and vaxx are almost equal. According to the report's data, and calculating (% vaxx - % unvaxx) / % vaxx, you are 5.15% more likely to die if you're vaxx'd compared to vaxx'd.

rightio, so rough 30% extra chance of being admitted, similar death rate.

If I told you that there have been litteral billions thrown at this, medical and ethical procedures skipt for a virus with a global IFR of 1,4. Would you agree with me, considering what we've thrown at it, what we're propagandized promised it would do and based for the sake of argument only on this report,

(consideration taken into consideration)

That the vaccine under-preforms? I think we already later on agree that blaming this whole pandemic continuing on the handfull of unjabbed is utterly ridiculous, tribalistic and intellectually dishonest.

the typo in hospitalisations in the x-axis would be odd to see in an official government publication, and the "According to official Public Health Scotland COVID-19 statistical reports" looks like a citation. This was definitely not the work of a professional statistician.
I'll happily take your word on that. I googled the pic post hoc to get to the official report i remembered coming across which I included. And given how we’ve (you specifically) skimmed through it, Its not far off/ a blatant lie. Especially considering the mortality rate.

So while I hand you the graph is based on the report not part of it, Its not exactly blatantly lying when it shows the vaccines aren’t all that effective, especially considering there’s a decreased effect (included in the report) the more you boost.
 
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dmgtz96

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yup, although admittedly most math I do for my work is mainly stuff like basic construction calculations for rough dimension estimates but that aside.



rightio, so rough 30% extra chance of being admitted, similar death rate.

If I told you that there have been litteral billions thrown at this, medical and ethical procedures skipt for a virus with a global IFR of 1,4. Would you agree with me, considering what we've thrown at it, what we're propagandized promised it would do and based for the sake of argument only on this report,

(consideration taken into consideration)

That the vaccine under-preforms? I think we already later on agree that blaming this whole pandemic continuing on the handfull of unjabbed is utterly ridiculous, tribalistic and intellectually dishonest.

So while I hand you the graph is based on the report not part of it, Its not exactly blatantly lying when it shows the vaccines aren’t all that effective, especially considering there’s a decreased effect (included in the report) the more you boost.

Yeah, it's definitely underwhelming.
I just don't want to get COVID, dang it. And if I do, I hope it's a very mild case.
 
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jetflag

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, all I care about is that I don't die from COVID or have any long-term effects, and I did not have any secondary effects from 2x moderna and booster.
perfectly fine, more power to you as far as i'm concerned.
 
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Daysleeper

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In my region in sweden there was about equal amount of deaths before and after vaccination. The big difference before and after vaccination is the number of covid patients in need of hospitalisation.

4 people is now in the intensive care, and they are unvaxxed. 4 unvaxxed people does not proove a thing! The only thing that is proven is that the old and frail and those with other deceases which effect their immune system benefit from taking the vaccine. You can never proove anything by saying look, all these 4 people are not vaccinated, therefor they need intensive care. You dont know if they wouldnt have been there or not before the majoirty of people in say Sweden was vaccinated.

Coronavirus Cases:​

322,819,391

Deaths:​

5,544,255

Recovered:​

264,892,440

These statistics still proove, after 2 years - You will most likely not die from the virus, and you will most likely not need hospital care either. I still dont get why they want everybody vaxxed so badly when you still transmit it to others. YES, vaccinate all the people who need it! but why the others? Just look how its still spreading rapidly even after vaccination. Look at Israeal for example. So I just DONT GET why its so damn important that EVERYBODY takes it when its not really needed. I understand about the overload of the hospitals etc, but is that reeally the only reason they want you injected?
 
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jetflag

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but is that reeally the only reason they want you injected?
no, its simply to big to fail. even if its only a 1% uptick, they'll push it if only for the reason that billions, ->Billions<- have been thrown at this.

this is where the "skepsis" for ivermectin etc. is coming from.
this is why, despite the evidence to the contrary, the narrative is to solely place the blame for the programm underpreforming on the handfull of unvaccinated
this is why, despite the WHO's explicit advice against this, they're trying push this onto children.

This has to be (made into) a (financial) success, it can't be afforded not being one.
 
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dmgtz96

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The big difference before and after vaccination is the number of covid patients in need of hospitalisation.
These statistics still proove, after 2 years - You will most likely not die from the virus, and you will most likely not need hospital care either. I still dont get why they want everybody vaxxed so badly when you still transmit it to others. YES, vaccinate all the people who need it! but why the others? Just look how its still spreading rapidly even after vaccination. Look at Israeal for example. So I just DONT GET why its so damn important that EVERYBODY takes it when its not really needed. I understand about the overload of the hospitals etc, but is that reeally the only reason they want you injected?
Honestly, if the narrative from the start had been "let's not overload the health care system worldwide" I think vaccinations would have been much more convincing. For what it's worth, US hospitals are about to crash right now with the wave from Omicron, and things will only get worse until the peak is finally over.
 
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Daysleeper

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Honestly, if the narrative from the start had been "let's not overload the health care system worldwide" I think vaccinations would have been much more convincing. For what it's worth, US hospitals are about to crash right now with the wave from Omicron, and things will only get worse until the peak is finally over.
Yeah, atleast here that was preached early on, but it was crashing here even before most people were vaccinated in spring 2020. So theres that.
 
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jetflag

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Honestly, if the narrative from the start had been "let's not overload the health care system worldwide" I think vaccinations would have been much more convincing. For what it's worth, US hospitals are about to crash right now with the wave from Omicron, and things will only get worse until the peak is finally over.
yup, same here in NL. Now consider they've had 2 years to come up with a long term plan (something the pharma's adviced from the beginning by the way) that involved investing into and scaling up health care.

Here in NL there's hundreds of KLM stewardesses who where rejected by lottery to become a doctor and who're now for the most part grounded (literally) without a job, that you could have trained to be a covid-specific ITU nurse, relieving the current personel.

There's 3 empty, fully quarantined protocol cruiseships stacking up harbour fees in Rotterdam where I work. that you, within a month, can refit as covid-ITU hospitals.

There's syrian doctors in our Asylum seekers centres wanting nothing more then to go out and help however they can, I've worked with 2 of them personally. But they're stuck in their caravan's because apparantly we can make emergency laws granting government dicatorial powers, but we can't make emergency laws speeding up their integration process.


This isn't a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

this is a pandemic of government mismanagement.
 
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jetflag

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ah...if ónly everybody got the vaccine, thén we could live our lives again and be away with this pandemic oh wait.

 

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CGTN is an international English-language cable TV channel [...] under the control of the Publicity Department of the Chinese Communist Party.

Surprised you didn't spontaneously combust looking at something made by communists!

And yes, as the WHO chief states in the video, the vaccine is essential for bringing the pandemic under control. Not sure how that is supposed to back up your stance. Perhaps you should have watched it rather than just read the title.

Flu vaccines do not end flu. But they stop it overwhelming the health services and save many many lives.
 
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jetflag

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Love this one aswell:

Gibraltar.

Population, 33,691

Administered at least 94,469 vaccine doses Enough to have fully vaccinated 140.2% of the country’s population.

- Face masks mandatory in all shops and supermarkets, public transport, in medical centres, funerals, Airports. major public events cancelled

"pandemic of the unvaxxed" 😄

61dd96.jpg
 
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jetflag

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and three's a charm @Magnevi Remind you of any Sjans event? :ROFLMAO: 👌

FI_Yym2VQAUeWA_



FI_ZRWFVcAUwrhe


"pandemic of the unvaxxed" they're keeping us in this pandemic people 🤷‍♂️