Covid and vaccines and whatnot

[Jetflag]

Are any of you still dealing with the aftermath of COVID?

no, but people around me do. I have several vaccin-regret cases where I live + my wife is still not over the death of her grandmother. If anything Covid helped me pick up several health habits that I probably wouldn't have picked up where it not for the lockdown measures here.

 

[Perpetuous dreamer]

Recent study from Japan shows a *negative* effect in covid vaccine efficacy. Those who took mrna vaccines were up to twice as likely to become infected, and this increased as boosters were taken. 85% more likely to get it if you are vaccinated. That's right, read that again. This insane moment in human history just keeps outdoing itself.

Behavioral and Health Outcomes of mRNA COVID-19 Vaccination: A Case-Control Study in Japanese Small and Medium-Sized Enterprises

The study observed a higher reported incidence of COVID-19 infection among vaccinated individuals during the pandemic period, which increased with the number of vaccine doses received. This paradoxical finding may be influenced by various factors, including immune response mechanisms, such as antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) or original antigenic sin, behavioral changes, and exposure risk.

 

[Magdelayna]

Looking back years later now - im SO glad i didnt have a single vaccine.

 

[Hensmon]

Recent study from Japan shows a *negative* effect in covid vaccine efficacy. Those who took mrna vaccines were up to twice as likely to become infected, and this increased as boosters were taken. 85% more likely to get it if you are vaccinated

Oh ffs, it's almost comical at this point. What is the mechanism that would cause this though, I can't see it mentioned in the paper?

 

[Jetflag]

Oh ffs, it's almost comical at this point. What is the mechanism that would cause this though, I can't see it mentioned in the paper?

thats because the paper doesn't research that. it just compares infection rates of unjabbed v jabbed.

 

[Spacetime]

Recent study from Japan shows a *negative* effect in covid vaccine efficacy

 

[Contraband]

Hold on this cant be true because Rachel Maddow assured us we would not get infected if we all got vaccinated

x.com

x.com

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

Looking back years later now - im SO glad i didnt have a single vaccine.

Why? It’s not like it would have made a negative impact on you.

Sure, there’s probably a small percentage of people who experience negative effects, but so does COVID (the first few variants). The latter probably has more negative effects?

I don’t think - already did back then, and still do - it should be a “take or don’t take vaccine” discussion though. It has lead to massive polarization…

I think others aspects are way more important, like how to deal with different types of people. Young people had to deal with lockdowns when old obese men are the prime victims. Fair? Organisation of health masks, was very poor. You had to wear a mask in a bus when it’s only you and the bus driver, doesn’t make sense at all?

I think in general “we deden maar wat”, government put out measurements as a gamble, hoping it would not get worse. That’s the biggest thing they should learn from.

 

[Magdelayna]

Why? It’s not like it would have made a negative impact on you.

Sure, there’s probably a small percentage of people who experience negative effects, but so does COVID (the first few variants). The latter probably has more negative effects?

I don’t think - already did back then, and still do - it should be a “take or don’t take vaccine” discussion though. It has lead to massive polarization…

I think others aspects are way more important, like how to deal with different types of people. Young people had to deal with lockdowns when old obese men are the prime victims. Fair? Organisation of health masks, was very poor. You had to wear a mask in a bus when it’s only you and the bus driver, doesn’t make sense at all?

I think in general “we deden maar wat”, government put out measurements as a gamble, hoping it would not get worse. That’s the biggest thing they should learn from.

Cos im glad i didnt put that stuff in my body...i let my own immune system fight it off. Look at all the heart related things happening to people after having the vaccine..

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

Look at all the heart related things happening to people after having the vaccine

I don’t know what truth is in there. But there are also a looooooot of people who died or have long term covid. Those all trusted their immune system too?

I believe you don’t have the information to really form such an opinion. Neither do I btw. (Although it’s likely the the total negative affects of Covid are bigger than those from the vaccine.).

I think it doesn’t help to form an opinion, as it leads to anti-government behavior, anti-tolerant stance towards any other group, etc.

 

[Trance4Ever]

I don’t know what truth is in there. But there are also a looooooot of people who died or have long term covid. Those all trusted their immune system too?

I believe you don’t have the information to really form such an opinion. Neither do I btw. (Although it’s likely the the total negative affects of Covid are bigger than those from the vaccine.).

I think it doesn’t help to form an opinion, as it leads to anti-government behavior, anti-tolerant stance towards any other group, etc.

I dnt trust the tester kit itself. Trust nothing and instead call off sick for 'normal' fever which i only had once throughout the entirety of this suspicious agenda.

 

[Jetflag]

I don’t know what truth is in there. But there are also a looooooot of people who died or have long term covid. Those all trusted their immune system too?

How @Magdelayna suggesting that in any way anywhere m8...

He expresses gratitude that he didn't have to reoly on experimental vaccinations which more and more turn out to have adverse side effects, and instead relied on his own immune system.

as it leads to anti-government behavior

if the government lied to you, which they did...it deserves anti-government behavior.

 

[Bobby Summa]

Quite poignant to me all this, but bound to be more so for those who have grief from Loss. I don’t think we will know for a long time a whole lot about covid. I have (currently fairly mild) long covid, but i have recently had a flare up which then passed.

Then after hearing certain things from a friend I see on holiday and also seeing others believe it…as some think it’s more likely Long Vaccine ( ie vaccine caused my issue)

We just shouldn’t really speculate. Like @Julian Del Agranda has said. Forming an opinion is not useful. Because I just think . Do we really have hard facts? I think not. I think it will be atleast another 30 years before firm answers can arrive over many Covid related matters.

 

[Jetflag]

. Forming an opinion is not useful. Because I just think . Do we really have hard facts? I think not.

We have some. We have for a fact that “the experts” lied about the vaccine and its effectiveness. This is demonstrable.

saying we can’t form an opinion on this because we dont have a 100% hard facts to me is austrich behavior in the face of uncomfortable revelations.

also: just to point out something glaringly obvious

being glad or relieved

is not “forming an uninformed opinion”

it’s expressing gratitude, simple as

 

[Bobby Summa]

We have some. We have for a fact that “the experts” lied about the vaccine and its effectiveness. This is demonstrable.

saying we can’t form an opinion on this because we dont have a 100% hard facts to me is austrich behavior in the face of uncomfortable revelations.

also: just to point out something glaringly obvious here

being glad or

is not “forming an uninformed opinion”

it’s expressing gratitude, simple as

It’s not austrige behaviour on the long Covid long / vacine debate. And others I think. So much in medical world gets changed as to causes . Like one day, they’ll say.. such and such causes this that and other. Then as technology grows, it’s revealed we were wrong. That’s science not having enough information for experts to have a clear answer. Not sciences fault. It’s not the role of science to find clear answers (I once heard). It’s whatever conclusions may be drawn from whatever science is available at that time that can be at fault and has been many times in history. (And I’m no doubt you know this)

 

[Jetflag]

So much in medical world gets changed as to causes . Like one day, they’ll say.. such and such causes this that and other. Then as technology grows, it’s revealed we were wrong.

yes, and when that happens, what you do is change you opinion, not " not have an opinion" .

It's fine to have an opinion, hunch or theory about it or anything, especially when there's a continuous stream of new data coming in. What you and julian are basically saying is "Bohr should have STFU'd about black holes because we didn't have the Hubble telescope and his opinion upset the establishment" <-that's asinine..

You don't treat said opinion as given fact sure.., but ofcourse you form one.

It’s not the role of science to find clear answers (I once heard)

the role of science is to find the best, most probably answer. Which is in constant flux as the body of evicence grows or shrinks depending on the subject. The capacity for science to change its mind on x subject sais nothing about the state of the answer in the current time frame, and on wether or not its " allowed" to have an opinion on it.

also. the call to " not form an opinion" doesn't come from a place of scientific doctrine in this instance, it comes from a place of fear.

 

[Bobby Summa]

yes, and when that happens, what you do is change you opinion, not " not have an opinion" .

It's fine to have an opinion, hunch or theory about it or anything, especially when there's a continuous stream of new data coming in. What you and julian are basically saying is "Bohr should have STFU'd about black holes because we didn't have the Hubble telescope and his opinion upset the establishment" <-that's asinine..

You don't treat said opinion as given fact sure.., but ofcourse you form one.


the role of science is to find the best, most probably answer. Which is in constant flux as the body of evicence grows or shrinks depending on the subject. The capacity for science to change its mind on x subject sais nothing about the state of the answer in the current time frame, and on wether or not its " allowed" to have an opinion on it.

also. the call to " not form an opinion" doesn't come from a place of scientific doctrine in this instance, it comes from a place of fear.

I think a lot of people trust experts to be right. The same people form more than an opinion and often act on it, which can be dangerous. They forget results from science can change.

I’d say we all have a fear of shitty things. But I can’t settle on having a valid / strong opinion when I don’t ‘know’. Or could wait ten years and oh, all those thoughts I had for ten years that made me feel awful (generic me, could mean anyone ) those feelings are a futile waste if its proved wrong (if it can be, yes). So why have them. Avoidance youl think possibly , but maybe just realising personal reasons for cause ( opinion) and its (effect) on ones self. Then ‘if’ it’s found to be wrong … , wasted energy and depression or whichever negative effect it had on someone. That time could have been spent better and happier.


Knowing just seems so important.

Some science is finite. Ie- the earth is definitely round and a globe. 2+2 is definitely 4. ( sod abstract science / maths ….it’s 4 I tell you! lol)

 

[Bobby Summa]

I might have just defined avoidance above . But often it’s seen as a bad thing, in this case. Not ( if it is exactly avoidance?)

 

[Jetflag]

Ook Duitse geheime dienst denkt dat covid uit lab ontsnapte, regering hield dat stil

Vijf jaar lang werd het project Saarema geheim gehouden, tot documenten vorige week uitlekten na onderzoek door Duitse media. Ook de toenmalige directeur van het Duitse gezondheidsinstituut acht de theorie aannemelijk.

nos.nl

Translation: German secret service suspected lab leak, government covered it up.

the “far right conspiracy theory” is full on msn now.

 

[Perpetuous dreamer]

The same thing just came out in the UK.

All these countries worked on covering up the origin of Covid 19. I have to question why. I understand why the US aka Fauci did, as he is directly tied to the gain of function research that was taking place a the Wuhan lab through the research grants, but why are the Germans and British intelligence community doing this as well?