Thoughts on USA this year?

[Jetflag]

I love threads like these by the way, they're exiting, really get the noggin joggin' and force you to read.

as opposed to Dj X posted new track. I like because x. I hate because Y. Though thats mainly what this forum is for lol

 

[brandonl]

Lets break that down a bit. Trump has been succesfull and semi succesfull in fulfilling a number of his campain promises.

- Tax cuts
- Paris climate deal
- supreme court nominee
- semi-ban on immigrants from * checkmarked* countries
-though no physical wall has been build, his tarif threats on mexico have reduced the illegal immigration to the united states by 56%, mexico defacto became the wall and they're paying for it with armed border guards.
-troops have been allocated and in some instances retreated from the middle east conflict.
-Isis has been defeated and sullemani shitposted himself to death without starting a militairy conflict with Iran.
-new trade deal with china has been signed.
-he's been nominated for a nobel peace prize for his role in the UAE/Isreal treaty/dialogue.
-and before covid struck the world, the Us economy, especially for low black and latino households, was booming,

Lol wtf. Your defending America leaving the Paris climate accord? you must be one of those climate deniers. His tax cuts went to corporations and the wealthy elite. They didn't benefit the poor or the middle class or working class, i don't know why you are defending that as well.

His supreme court nominees are all terrible choices. A ban on immigrants from some countries is a racist policy which you are clearly defending so you seem to have racist ideologies. The border wall is a waste of American tax dollars which benefits corporations who fund the republicans and it's a racist policy that doesn't address the underlying issues as to why people are fleeing to America anyways. Your a selfish person who is ignoring the suffering of migrants just because you don't want to help them even though the U.S. could.

Trump is still letting the US military operate in the middle east and they shouldn't be there at all. ISIS has not been defeated they are merely on their least legs. And it was your frigging country who created ISIS in the first place.

Trumps trade deal with China occurred because of his strong armed negotiation tactics. He lied to people saying that America wasn't getting a good deal before.

Trump has been nominated for nobel peace prize twice because of a Norwegian, right winged nut who thinks he deserves it and he doesn't. Trump had little to no role in the treaty's between Israel and other middle eastern nations. Other people did that work themselves. Trump hasn't done anything to promote peace in the world.

This idea that black and latino citizens were doing way better off before the pandemic is another total lie. Their jobless rates were way higher than the national average.

Your attempt to defend trump is full of lies. sorry buddy.

 

[Jetflag]

Lol wtf. Your defending America leaving the Paris climate accord? you must be one of those climate deniers.

"lol wtf. You’re defending the Paris climate accord as if its anything but a paper tiger for politicians to slap themselves on the shoulders with no actual obligations or repercussions? You must be one of those evangelical anti-trump Jehova witness NPC's suffering from TDS."

See how easy that was? ^ I can do that too but I don't. And no, I’m not a AGW denier and i'm not "defending" the US leaving. I'm saying its a campain promise Trump fulfilled and as such a succes for him.

I’ll be happy to talk more about my stance on AGW, the paris accord and what I think should happen, if you can bring yourself to actually having a civilized, normal discussion without you thinking you in anyway know me, my beliefs or my positions.

he’s a racist, you’re a racist you’re selfish! waah! screetch!

no, I’m not, and nor is Trump at least not in his policy on that. Not wanting illegal immigrants or terror risk immigrants crossing your border isn’t a racist policy. Its common sense. 1, most of majority muslim countries that don’t check the box are perfectly free to enter the States if they can get a visa, so much for the race argument 2. You’re also allowed to enter the states if you can identify yourself/ have the paper work as a Mexican, or Dominican or whatever. Human trafficking, abuse of undocumented when entered, criminals etc. are all reasons why crossing a border undocumented is problematic. Not just on behalf of the citizens, but also the immigrant (which also, at least in part, explains Trumps growing voter support in those minority communities.). There's a set of very good reasons on why countries have borders. They're an intrical protection part of the Demos, including its (legal) immigrants.

Trump is still letting the US military operate in the middle east and they shouldn't be there at all. ISIS has not been defeated they are merely on their least legs. And it was your frigging country who created ISIS in the first place.”

yes, but, like me and Hensmon have touched on above, there has been a constant decline in military presence in the middle east , same goes for ISIS, they have been reduced from a multible country spanning kalifate to a defunded, de-armed set of guerillia ideologues the Iraqi's, Kurds and Syrians can handle without daddy 'murica. So Trump seems to be working on it and doing fair job in the right direction. Your complain in a nutshell is basically "well its not perfect yet" ok....nobody said it was, what I was saying is he has booked (partial) succes in that field, which is true.

And I honestly didn’t know NL created ISIS, I’ll be sure to ask premier Rutte about it next time I come across him on his bike Also, please tell me again how you can infer or know so much about me, my positions, who I am, my stance on the climate or race when you can't even determine what my passport is, oh tolerant left leaning person?

Trumps trade deal with China occurred because of his strong armed negotiation tactics.

yes, he's a hard bargain/ strong armed negotiator, getting a better deal for his country. check the box on succesfull campain promise. How is this a rebuttal to what i said?

Trump has been nominated for nobel peace prize twice because of a Norwegian, right winged nut who thinks he deserves it and he doesn't.

ah I see, it’s the wrong-think people from the exact same organisation this time who nominated him and therefor its objectionable.
Funny, I laughed at the same argument last year from people who thought Greta Thunberg’s being on that list was an abomination

But I suppose its ok and totally not hypocritical when its your prefered team doing it, isn’t it brandonl

his idea that black and latino citizens were doing way better off before the pandemic is another total lie. Their jobless rates were way higher than the national average.

They where better off compared to before he came into office and up untill the pandemic. The black unemployment rate under trump reached an all time low, 5.4% in August, so when trump sais “he had the best numbers for African americans on employment in history” (before the pandemic) he’s telling the truth. Same goes for Lantino’s 17.6% from 18.9%. Now, to be perfectly fair he is riding partially on Obama’s wave there, But it’s a policy he’s improved upon and things where steadily getting better. The fact that trump didn’t achieve mass equality of outcome in 3 years of office is a ridiculously unrealistic target he never set and pretty much boils down to your earlier complain of "well it wasn't perfect yet therefor orange man bad" argument. If he can boast (which is something he loves to do unfortunatly) about best employment numbers for american/latino in recent history without lying (which he demonstrably isn't doing in this particular instance)

he's doing a good or a the very least fair job at it. And I don't get why you would think thats in any way a bad thing.

Your attempt to defend trump is full of lies. sorry buddy.

no its not, and i've elaborated on why its not and whats more its not even a defense, its an affirmation of campain promises he fulfilled or partially fulfilled since in office in responds to Hensmon. i never took a pro-against position in regards to his earlier campain promises. I did so in his v biden's upcomming election ones.

Look, "buddy" If you can't come up with a reaction that doesn't unnessecairly ad hominem, spreads lies/half truths and/or presumes things about me without merrit, Then from here on out i'm just going to be ignoring you and simply let the rest of the forum/thread judge on what kind of person you are and how you conduct yourself here.

 

[J. Dorian]

Nowadays, you get the Nobel Peace Prize in your first year in office and then you go to war for 8 years in a row, killing innocent people. But that is then smiled away on camera because the lobby allows it.

I would have liked to have seen this critical reporting in the past. But it would never have taken place. Now every disaster is being pinned on Trump and everyone points their finger at him. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go on holiday with him, but it's not always as simple as it is presented in the media. For now, i accuse Trump for increasing thePentagon budget to 740 billion dollars.

What is actually the difference between a wall with armed soldiers who protect the borders (USA) and a private army (Frontex) who protect the borders (Europe)? - yes, the wall, the rest is the same.

 

[Hensmon]

Nowadays, you get the Nobel Peace Prize in your first year in office and then you go to war for 8 years in a row, killing innocent people. But that is then smiled away on camera because the lobby allows it.

Yeah the Nobel Peace Prize has been turned into an absolute joke. Obama didn't deserve it and Trump doesn't deserve it either.

 

[Jetflag]

Nowadays, you get the Nobel Peace Prize in your first year in office and then you go to war for 8 years in a row, killing innocent people. But that is then smiled away on camera because the lobby allows it.

agreed, But i would still count it as a succes or "win point" if you will, for him, Same goes for Obama (or Greta for that matter)
and I agree with Hensmon, They both don't deserve it with all those drone strikes.

I would have liked to have seen this critical reporting in the past. But it would never have taken place. Now every disaster is being pinned on Trump and everyone points their finger at him. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't go on holiday with him, but it's not always as simple as it is presented in the media. For now, i accuse Trump for increasing thePentagon budget to 740 billion dollars.

fair enough but I don't think he ever said anything about reducing militairy strenght or spending? he said he was going to pull out of the middle east. Afaik (correct me if i'm wrong) Trump has always been pro militairy, just not pro (middle east) war.

What is actually the difference between a wall with armed soldiers who protect the borders (USA) and a private army (Frontex) who protect the borders (Europe)? - yes, the wall, the rest is the same.

and one is private owned, creating a need for profit/survival on that "market" which tends to conflict more with things like battlefield ethics then a regular army. but thats a side note.

 

[J. Dorian]

fair enough but I don't think he ever said anything about reducing militairy strenght or spending?

Mate, I can't tie this to a statement, I was just comparing. Three years ago, the budget for the military was "only" 720 billion. It was just a conclusion. Correct me if I say something wrong.

Otherwise, I am completely with your opinion.

 

[Jetflag]

Mate, I can't tie this to a statement, I was just comparing. Three years ago, the budget for the military was "only" 720 billion. It was just a conclusion. Correct me if I say something wrong.

oh no you're totally right on that, I just though it was worth pointing out. Trump is about as "bad" as any other US president when it comes to investing in the militairy.

 

[J. Dorian]

oh no you're totally right on that, I just though it was worth pointing out. Trump is about as "bad" as any other US president when it comes to investing in the militairy.

My bad, you're completely right!
In any case, with 2 billion dollars a day(!) a lot of useful things can be done.
After the election this amount will certainly be increased again. At the latest when they come up with the idea of ensuring democracy in countries with high silicon deposits.

 

[brandonl]

oh no you're totally right on that, I just though it was worth pointing out. Trump is about as "bad" as any other US president when it comes to investing in the militairy.

At least we agree on that. Spending over 700 billion a year is frigging nuts. All it does it prop up the military industrial complex who controls American foreign policy. To be fair both Republican's and Democrat's support this, so both are terrible in that sense. Joe Biden will continue the status quo and continue to waste money on the military when America has so many other issues to deal with.

That's part of the reason I support the Greens, they want to cut the military budget in half, same with Libertarian Party. Both want to shut down all American military bases outside of the US.

 

[J. Dorian]

If I remember correctly, Jill Stein had about one million votes in the last election. Unfortunately, this is far too less for the laudable election programme of the Greens. I wonder if this is due to the American attitude itself, or whether the citizens are unaware of it because of the much smaller election campaign budget.

 

[Jetflag]

At least we agree on that. Spending over 700 billion a year is frigging nuts.

All it does it prop up the military industrial complex who controls American foreign policy. To be fair both Republican's and Democrat's support this, so both are terrible in that sense. Joe Biden will continue the status quo and continue to waste money on the military when America has so many other issues to deal with.

That's part of the reason I support the Greens, they want to cut the military budget in half, same with Libertarian Party. Both want to shut down all American military bases outside of the US.

Its the reason I'm with Biden on that point in my list, but thats only based on his program/ promises. In all practicality I don't think he will so, same shit different day.

Friend of mine is also a vivid Stein supporter. One positive sidenote to the whole culturewar/polarisation its the rise in voters for both parties, liberatarian and greens. I for one hope they'll reach a political power point where the dems or reps are forced to form an alliance with either one to get a majority in one of two houses.
A Two party democratic system suffers in many ways from the same problems as a 1 party "democratic system" has.

There's are arguments to be made for having a strong military institute as a social program. Things like: hegemonic stability, protection (as a Dutchy with a 2% militairy budget and having been conquored by an outside force what, 3 times already? I can attest to that) ,
avoidance of world power vacuum filling by despot regimes , peace through superior fire power not to mention it supporting millions of jobs/families etc.

but a lot of the budget is like you said weapons lobbying and conflict generation rather then preventing, (aswell as large sums being spend on certian ridiciously bureaucratic protocols and outdated rituals that don't serve any practical purpose) Which is money well spend on clean energy and/or infrastructure.

 

[Katadunkass]

Is it ok if I just crash the party once in a while with a couple of Trump memes, USA gifs and what-not instead of reading what might as well be a 600 page novel at this point?

 

[Katadunkass]

 

[Julian Del Agranda]

Can't imagine having a president like him. Just picture it. Mark Rutte smacking somebody in the face, Mark Rutte suggardadding with some young girls in bikini, Mark Rutte throwing another guy over a desk... I would be so embarresed for my country.

 

[dmgtz96]

Is it ok if I just crash the party once in a while with a couple of Trump memes, USA gifs and what-not instead of reading what might as well be a 600 page novel at this point?

LOL, please do!

 

[brandonl]

Its the reason I'm with Biden on that point in my list, but thats only based on his program/ promises. In all practicality I don't think he will so, same shit different day.

Friend of mine is also a vivid Stein supporter. One positive sidenote to the whole culturewar/polarisation its the rise in voters for both parties, liberatarian and greens. I for one hope they'll reach a political power point where the dems or reps are forced to form an alliance with either one to get a majority in one of two houses.
A Two party democratic system suffers in many ways from the same problems as a 1 party "democratic system" has.

There's are arguments to be made for having a strong military institute as a social program. Things like: hegemonic stability, protection (as a Dutchy with a 2% militairy budget and having been conquored by an outside force what, 3 times already? I can attest to that) ,
avoidance of world power vacuum filling by despot regimes , peace through superior fire power not to mention it supporting millions of jobs/families etc.

but a lot of the budget is like you said weapons lobbying and conflict generation rather then preventing, (aswell as large sums being spend on certian ridiciously bureaucratic protocols and outdated rituals that don't serve any practical purpose) Which is money well spend on clean energy and/or infrastructure.

It's as easy as having proportional representation in America but impossible with Republicans and Democrats in power blocking that from happening. many people in America support it, others would surely warm up to it if they understood why it's better than the electoral college. But sadly there is no real movement to push the issue. Everything is so polarized in America, there is no common sense about what needs to get done.

 

[Halon]

What people forget is that the country is 350 million people and everything is televised, reported and sent back to Western Europe via the news or content. They are experts at reporting mindless shit or craziness, and we seem open on our side of Atlantic to follow it all intently. Populations the size of the U.S will contain every type of person and interaction we can imagine, both the incredible and the horrifying, on a huge scale and much more than any European country can match. Of course then we can find daily anecdotes of short-comings, violence, stupidity etc. The Americans package that up nicely for us to consume. Yet thankfully news, twitter, facebook is not a reflection of the reality, from any country, It just amplified perspective and we have the telescopes pointed quite relentlessly in their direction.

yeah that is true. it is of course not the citizens but the goverments fault. sttill i wish it was different.

 

[Halon]

Americans are strange

We have some distant family from Michigan that we never met before. Last year they came over to visit us. 4 of them stayed in my dads house. My dad has one of those double door refrigerators. He filled it up with food so he almost couldnt close it. It had everything and i mean everything.

At breakfast time the first morning none of them could find anything they liked in my dads fridge so they decided to go buy pizza, for breakfast.

When they arrived at the pizza shop they couldnt even find a pizza they liked so they had to buy plain pizza with just cheese.

And these 4 where all adults, no children.

No wonder americans are hated by everyone. Thats fucking nuts! I mean food is food, why not eat what was in the fridge?

 

[Jetflag]

Is it ok if I just crash the party once in a while with a couple of Trump memes, USA gifs and what-not instead of reading what might as well be a 600 page novel at this point?

I'll chuck in a few biden ones every now and then