(Why) are there no new ideas in trance?

[Daysleeper]

What exactly would you like implemented in trance from that track? I don't think it's particularly interesting when it comes to storytelling or build. It's loopy. Trance for me (good trance) is trying to dodge the 4x4 loopy beat and nature and make you forget it's an actual repetitiv music genre. It's about doing something exciting and creative around that beat. Not a fan of changing TOO much of the nature and origins of the music tbh

 

[dmgtz96]

What exactly would you like implemented in trance from that track? I don't think it's particularly interesting when it comes to storytelling or build. It's loopy. Trance for me (good trance) is trying to dodge the 4x4 loopy beat and nature and make you forget it's an actual repetitiv music genre. It's about doing something exciting and creative around that beat. Not a fan of changing TOO much of the nature and origins of the music tbh

Mostly the "lead synth" from the beginning, and the general dreamy ethereal feeling. It reminds me of early 1990s, very dreamy trance from the old labels

 

[Nerio]

The new idea was this project. The early 2000 was really wild today i find E Nomine project "E Nomine is a German musical project formed in 1999 by producers Christian Weller and Friedrich "Fritz" Graner. Their music, which they call monumental vocal style, is a combination of trance, techno, and vocals which closely resemble Gregorian singing and chanting"

 

[Progrez]

I think the one thing that's lacking in a lot of modern day is memories. You can attach certain memories and or moments to certain tracks when you first heard it and re-listening to them recreates or brings back those feelings once again.

 

[Bobby Summa]

I think the one thing that's lacking in a lot of modern day is memories. You can attach certain memories and or moments to certain tracks when you first heard it and re-listening to them recreates or brings back those feelings once again.

Could be a symptom of time, that in, over time many tracks are created and released. Back Catalogue gets bigger. Perhaps each individual track doesn’t stick out as much because there lacks a uniqueness when a genre has been going for 4 decades. ( or that its so hard to create something different after many variations have been done). Maybe People have been influenced in a direction and its so hard to actually make something unique ( and thus hard for it to be especially memorable) …….But i don’t think it means the music isn’t as good these days. Perhaps theres a limit in trance as to what can sound good together with a 4/4 beat and upbeat pace ……But that wont stop us trying and ‘perhaps’ hopefully achieving something unique.

 

[Bobby Summa]

Was thinking about the advice ive been given about structuring trance. Also whether it’s possible to have new ideas in trance. Started a track and just put 10 layers down. 16 bar loop style to arrange another time. I don’t usually layer as much before arranging . This is the 10 or so layers looping in a 28 second clip.

Does it sound different & is it even Trance? Or is it like something else?

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on.soundcloud.com

 

[marvas]

@Bobby Summa those 28 seconds sound really nice, curious to see what you can build around them. There are people with really strict definitions of what trance should be, with a certain bpm, or percution, etc, getting very technical about it. For me it's just the feeling that I get from a song. A lot of perfectly executed and balanced songs don't say anything to me, there has to be a bit of a soul in them.

And I completely agree with @Progrez, it's the memories that you associate with a song that makes it more valuable. As we get older we associate our youth with some songs, inevitably starting to say: they don't make them as they used to.

 

[Archon]

As we get older we associate our youth with some songs, inevitably starting to say: they don't make them as they used to.

I would agree but with a huge caveat in that argument.

I discovered trance in 2011. So in the next 2 years, I discovered so many tracks from that era which I instantly fell in love with. That's what I have nostalgic feelings towards, but after that my interest in new trance started to decline.

But I would never say a 2012 track I discovered in 2012 is better than a 1993 track I discovered in 2022.

 

[marvas]

Sounds to me like you've refined your taste in music and prefer the classics.

 

[erickUO]

This is a nice read. It also happened in movie, media, automotive, architecture and so on.

The age of average — Alex Murrell

In the early 1990s, two Russian artists named Vitaly Komar and Alexander Melamid hired a market research firm to survey the public on what they wanted in a work of art. Across 11 countries they then set about painting a piece that reflected the results. Each piece was intended to be a unique a colla

www.alexmurrell.co.uk

There are many reasons why this might have happened.

Perhaps when times are turbulent, people seek the safety of the familiar. Perhaps it’s our obsession with quantification and optimisation. Or maybe it’s the inevitable result of inspiration becoming globalised.

Regardless of the reasons, it seems that just as Komar and Melamid produced the “people’s choice” in art, contemporary companies produce the people’s choice in almost every category of creativity.

 

[Doej]

I think the one thing that's lacking in a lot of modern day is memories. You can attach certain memories and or moments to certain tracks when you first heard it and re-listening to them recreates or brings back those feelings once again.

Not really, there is just a mindset attached to a given moment.

Trance is overall based on happy and uplifting chords progression. The 2 constantly lack over the last 10 years in most of occidental countries, it's about death and despair is most countries.

Which means creating an idea that is vastly counter intuitive in current trend of media and culture makes it extremely hard to become an actual thing. Hence the fact most of trance DJ recycle the same idea over and over, because they simply only can mimic what was back then.

 

[Perpetuous dreamer]

The problems less that there are no new ideas, and more that everything sounds the same and has done for 10 years. As generic as that comment sounds, it's miserably true. Every 138-140 producer really does sound the same, and the new-commers that enter the scene seem to continue the cycle, oblivious. Prog doesn't escape, it also all sounds the same as well. This is not an overstatement.

New ideas would be nice but first let's break the generic death spiral we have found ourselves in and encourage users to even try 10% more creativity and thought to their production.

 

[Hensmon]

Can't stop coming back to the whole local vs global music landscape, and how we completely lost the former when the internet came about. So many of my favorite music artists and scenes developed locally within a region. Grunge was the Seattle sound, Nu-Metal/Funk Rock was the LA sound, East Coast vs West Coast Hip-Hop so different, Psybient from West UK, Jungle from London etc... it's all so rooted in a local, contained way, where unique ideas/identities were formed but also nurtured enough to the point where it would then go global...

Today we have non-localized subcultures scattered across pockets of the internet. No question those places can develop new and exciting ideas, but it feels like the extent and impact is not being observed to be the same. Why though? Or am I off here? I have some theories as to why local developing music scenes may produce better results than global ones, but wonder if anyone else thinks theres some truth to this...

 

[Propeller]

Can't stop coming back to the whole local vs global music landscape, and how we completely lost the former when the internet came about. So many of my favorite music artists and scenes developed locally within a region. Grunge was the Seattle sound, Nu-Metal/Funk Rock was the LA sound, East Coast vs West Coast Hip-Hop so different, Psybient from West UK, Jungle from London etc... it's all so rooted in a local, contained way, where unique ideas/identities were formed but also nurtured enough to the point where it would then go global...

Today we have non-localized subcultures scattered across pockets of the internet. No question those places can develop new and exciting ideas, but it feels like the extent and impact is not being observed to be the same. Why though? Or am I off here? I have some theories as to why local developing music scenes may produce better results than global ones, but wonder if anyone else thinks theres some truth to this...

You're on the right track. It's more to do with the ecosystems that existed in music pre internet. These were thriving, profitable and self sustaining.
Artist releases music on a label. Sales from vinyl/CD bring in money. Track gets licenced for CD compilations, more $$ comes in to keep the record label afloat. Remix duties also bring in money to artist. Music has to be good in the first place to get released on vinyl due to pressing costs, etc. Even local clubs had their own unique sounds, Cream, Gatecrasher, Bristol sound, London, etc. Record shops were also a huge part of the ecosystem, thriving, a place where people congregated.
There were many more additional aspects to this. Each country had its own ecosystem of course. All wiped out by the internet.

 

[I'mpossible]

This thread reminds me of old times on AVA, Anjunabeats. Early progressive trance, when artist is damn creative.
"David West ─ Make U Mine (Vocal Mix) " - Now we cant find this kind of sounds anymore.

 

[Archon]

Chủ đề này làm tôi nhớ đến Bản ghi AVA trước đó, Anjunabeats. Khi họ là những người sáng tạo chết tiệt.
"David West ─ Make U Mine (Vocal Mix) " - Now we cant find this kind of sounds anymore.

Pričaj engleski da te ceo svet razume. Please.

 

[I'mpossible]

Pričaj engleski da te ceo svet razume. Please.

Haha, sorry bro. I editted.

 

[Archon]

Haha, sorry bro. I editted.

Yeah no worries.

 

[Progrez]

Not really, there is just a mindset attached to a given moment.

Trance is overall based on happy and uplifting chords progression. The 2 constantly lack over the last 10 years in most of occidental countries, it's about death and despair is most countries.

Which means creating an idea that is vastly counter intuitive in current trend of media and culture makes it extremely hard to become an actual thing. Hence the fact most of trance DJ recycle the same idea over and over, because they simply only can mimic what was back then.

I disagree about the part that trance has to be all happy. Personally, I think the emotions is quite varied in the spectrum. The track back in the day don't sound anything like the modern day trance tracks at all. Personally, I feel they would allow more breathing space with certain tracks and don't focus too much on length and I also think back in the day they just wanted to make a track that sounded good rather than disposable track.

 

[Magdelayna]

Reading through this thread and the word that strikes me is laziness from producers - especially in the last 5 years or so. I'll give some example below of old tracks which incorporated chants,and even some famous poetry. No one really experiments anymore. Thats not to say that all ethnic chants etc would sound good in Trance,but at least experiment! I think the instant gratification social media tiktok/reels/shorts generation has a lot to do with it.