Conservative or liberal (politics)

jetflag

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A complete ban on guns in the US isn't going to work because gun ownership is embedded as a right.
Beto O'Rourke declared that he would "take away people's guns" after the 2019 El Paso shooting against Mexicans/Mexican-Americans, and he still lost this cycle in Uvalde (of all places). Americans love their guns, and if you don't want to fall behind as a minority you pretty much *have* to own guns and know how to use them.

edit: this is probably my most conservative opinion. In a bigoted society like the US, the only way for minorities (racial, sexual, or else) to fight back against bigotry is with their same tactics. After all, even gun-toting Texans are scared when armed groups show up to protect drag queen events. In a society where an innocent Black man gets killed by the police (George Floyd) just for being black, gun ownership is especially important for Black Americans. It's the only form of protection we as minorities get, because we can't even trust the police or the institutions around us.
Even though I reject your (far left) characterisation of the us as a bigoted society and Floyd dying at the police’s hands “just for being black”. We wholeheartedly agree on the notion that yes..

any (minority) us citizen should have the right to own arms and protect themselves.
Whether that be from criminals, kkk racists, antifa or the government itself. If that right is limited or taken away for just one group under the citizen denominator, the us will no longer be the us.
 
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dmgtz96

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Even though I reject your (far left) characterisation of the us as a bigoted society and Floyd dying at the police’s hands “just for being black”. We wholeheartedly agree on the notion that yes..

any (minority) us citizen should have the right to own arms and protect themselves.
Whether that be from criminals, kkk racists, antifa or the government itself. If that right is limited or taken away for just one group under the citizen denominator, the us will no longer be the us.
it's interesting how we agree on the same thing but from different perspectives
 
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jetflag

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it's interesting how we agree on the same thing but from different perspectives
A principle as strong as self defense or equal monks equal hoods transcends ideologies

or at the very least has massive overlapse
 
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jetflag

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@dmgtz96 This should brighten your day and anyone in favor of fair treatment:

US Senate adopts law protecting gay marriage with 61 votes ✌️
 
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LostLegend

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I’m definitely more left wing myself, though I’m not sure I’d call myself a liberal.
My home city is known as a socialist city, and while I wouldn’t call myself a socialist either, I do believe in essential services like healthcare, public transport, energy and the like being nationalised (or re-nationalised as the case is for most of them)

Get very passionate when it comes to equality as well. As a gay man myself, I know what it’s like to be the victim of discrimination and the target of bigoted abuse (thankfully a rare occurrence for me) and with that I believe you should fight back against ignorance and bigotry of any type. Have the same energy for all.

I’ve had people throw words like SJW, snowflake & woke (anyone know what this even means yet? :LOL: ) at me, but that’s not the case. I just find it tiring that people still have to justify their own existence in the year 2022.
 
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jetflag

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I’m definitely more left wing myself, though I’m not sure I’d call myself a liberal.
My home city is known as a socialist city, and while I wouldn’t call myself a socialist either, I do believe in essential services like healthcare, public transport, energy and the like being nationalised (or re-nationalised as the case is for most of them)
The difference between a liberal and a socialist is, very basically, that a liberal beliefs in society forming bottom up, by extending and securing the same rights and liberties towards every (sacrosanct) individual and let the outcome be the outcome, Whereas a socialist beliefs in shaping society top down (via government fiat), towards a certain utopian ideal. One is also more focused on the (unique) individual, whereas the other is more focussed on the group.

Both philosophies have some overlap here and there (such as healthcare) but thats basically the key difference. What makes you one or the other is your ideological and moral leanings towards either.

Get very passionate when it comes to equality as well. As a gay man myself, I know what it’s like to be the victim of discrimination and the target of bigoted abuse (thankfully a rare occurrence for me) and with that I believe you should fight back against ignorance and bigotry of any type. Have the same energy for all.

I’ve had people throw words like SJW, snowflake & woke (anyone know what this even means yet? :LOL: ) at me, but that’s not the case. I just find it tiring that people still have to justify their own existence in the year 2022.
i can tell you my definitions of those slurs:

SJW is basically the equivalent of a socialist bully: The type that don't belief in live and let live but will harass, cancel (or any other form of reputation destruction) or even assault anyone who disagrees with them. (so.. you know... a cunt)

Snowflake is basically weak person with no emotional spine, this extends to both figures on the right as on the left e.a. you can be a trump-snowflake if you broke down crying after the 2020 results.

Woke as a slur (as opposed to a Zeitgeist or a compliment) extends to someone who is very "awake" about certain issues, but conviniently closes his or her eyes towards other or simmilar injustices that don't conform to the prefered (left leaning) ideology. For instance: "Bilionairs are immoral, except for Tim Cook because he's our guy etc.

my 2 cents :)
 
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dmgtz96

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I’m definitely more left wing myself, though I’m not sure I’d call myself a liberal.
My home city is known as a socialist city, and while I wouldn’t call myself a socialist either, I do believe in essential services like healthcare, public transport, energy and the like being nationalised (or re-nationalised as the case is for most of them)

Get very passionate when it comes to equality as well. As a gay man myself, I know what it’s like to be the victim of discrimination and the target of bigoted abuse (thankfully a rare occurrence for me) and with that I believe you should fight back against ignorance and bigotry of any type. Have the same energy for all.

I’ve had people throw words like SJW, snowflake & woke (anyone know what this even means yet? :LOL: ) at me, but that’s not the case. I just find it tiring that people still have to justify their own existence in the year 2022.
All of these would be considered "far left" in the US due to how right-leaning all of our politicians are, including even the Democrats
 
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jetflag

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All of these would be considered "far left" in the US due to how right-leaning all of our politicians are, including even the Democrats
I don't think it has anything to do with that. In fact the overton window in the States but also the UK and NL has shifted dramatically to the left in recent decades. What where considerably a left-leaning principles such as (mostly) open borders "trans-rights" (whatever the hell that even is?) or the push for things like c02 taxes have all but fully been adopted by the Tory's and VVD for example, same goes for the democrats.

I think the reason why the US doesn't have say: Nationwide healthcare has simply do with the way your republic is set up. its basically a federation of you know.. States.. with a high degree of autonomy and a constitutional seperation of powers. This isn't the case in my country where 12 provinces form one wholistic country with 1 government in the Hague tackling most if not all issues related to that.
 

dmgtz96

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I don't think it has anything to do with that. In fact the overton window in the States but also the UK and NL has shifted dramatically to the left in recent decades. What where considerably a left-leaning principles such as (mostly) open borders "trans-rights" (whatever the hell that even is?) or the push for things like c02 taxes have all but fully been adopted by the Tory's and VVD for example, same goes for the democrats.

I think the reason why the US doesn't have say: Nationwide healthcare has simply do with the way your republic is set up. its basically a federation of you know.. States.. with a high degree of autonomy and a constitutional seperation of powers. This isn't the case in my country where 12 provinces form one wholistic country with 1 government in the Hague tackling most if not all issues related to that.
Dude the fact that even Biden himself is against railroad workers' rights just shows how right-leaning American politics are
 

LostLegend

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The difference between a liberal and a socialist is, very basically, that a liberal beliefs in society forming bottom up, by extending and securing the same rights and liberties towards every (sacrosanct) individual and let the outcome be the outcome, Whereas a socialist beliefs in shaping society top down (via government fiat), towards a certain utopian ideal. One is also more focused on the (unique) individual, whereas the other is more focussed on the group.

Both philosophies have some overlap here and there (such as healthcare) but thats basically the key difference. What makes you one or the other is your ideological and moral leanings towards either.
Not saying I don't know the difference, just I've never been one to go 'all-in' on a particular political ideology.
Like most other things in life, balance is the key. Which is why the current 'pick a side' political landscape pisses me off so much.

i can tell you my definitions of those slurs:
I was being facetious ;)
Mostly due to how 'woke' seems to be some sort of a catch-all phrase amongst certain groups.

All of these would be considered "far left" in the US due to how right-leaning all of our politicians are, including even the Democrats
I once saw a Fox news clip of a guy talking about healthcare. "Socialised healthcare is socialism and you may as well be a communist at that point" :LOL:
I know Fox news is not really representative of the US as a whole, but I found that hilarious none-the-less.
 
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dmgtz96

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I once saw a Fox news clip of a guy talking about healthcare. "Socialised healthcare is socialism and you may as well be a communist at that point" :LOL:
I know Fox news is not really representative of the US as a whole, but I found that hilarious none-the-less.
Fox News is representative of the American Republican, white conservative viewpoint, which comprises a large portion of our population lol
 
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jetflag

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Dude the fact that even Biden himself is against railroad workers' rights just shows how right-leaning American politics are
...and he even finnished the Trump wall (partly). But he also endorsed CTR, which, speaking of socialism/communism, is basically a Marxist manifesto where the working class is replaced by race.

If you look at things from a distance..The Democrats have, over the years (20 odd so) shifted more and more left in their points. Thats not to say that yes, they're a bunch of snakes who will use right/left and centre to make empty promises only to then further their own gains and own personal agendas, but then again that can be said about any politician. The democrats are just very good at that. Its still not the reason why you don't have nationalized healthcare say.

I was being facetious ;) Mostly due to how 'woke' seems to be some sort of a catch-all phrase amongst certain groups.

lol, i know, i just used it to continue the conversation ;) As one of Trancefix's most vocal detractor of woke culture I actually on principle don't disagree with it all that much on the idea that yes, there are injustices that need " waking up" too. My problem with woke woke/culture is not that they seek to expose or recognize problems, my problems is in the way they seek to adress them (and their rather one sided selectivity).

The Fox anchor (didn't see the piece) isn't all that wrong about one thing though..Socialism and communism are not all that dissimilar in the sense that they're the same philosophy & follow the same doctrine.

Communism is basically the endpoint of Socialism, if Socialism is highschool, Communism is university graduated.
Both stife to a utopian State or World based on marxist principles.
 
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dmgtz96

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Love to see white nationalists (and nazis) getting treated like crap in public, whether that is punched or someone simply throwing ketchup at them.
These people warrant exactly 0 empathy and should be ridiculed and made uncomfortable in public.
 

dmgtz96

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Screenshot_20221206_215703_Chrome.jpg

Looks like the next time I'm in Richmond I will go ahead and eat at this place
 

jetflag

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^nice example of equal monks equal hoods, If bakery's get to refuse customers based on their company policy or beliefs, then so can restaurants.
 
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dmgtz96

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^nice example of equal monks equal hoods, If bakery's get to refuse customers based on their company policy or beliefs, then so can restaurants.
One of the important distinctions here is that, technically you can't refuse service due to a person's religious beliefs (which are protected), but you can definitely "discriminate" based on actions and political stances. The Christian group in question lobbied against abortion and LGBTQ+ rights, which crosses the secular line and enables businesses to reject their money.

I've only been to Richmond twice, but I'll make sure to grab food from Metzger the next time I'm there. Their stance aligns well with mine
 
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jetflag

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One of the important distinctions here is that, technically you can't refuse service due to a person's religious beliefs (which are protected), but you can definitely "discriminate" based on actions and political stances. The Christian group in question lobbied against abortion and LGBTQ+ rights, which crosses the secular line and enables businesses to reject their money.
Interresting.. The netto outcome is the defacto the same though ansomething i'm very much in favor of.. In the US you’re not obliged to sell or accept money from customers you don’t want so sell too, by (constitutional) decree.

as a classical liberal/ leaning liberatarian I whole heartily concur with that
 
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dmgtz96

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Interresting.. The netto outcome is the defacto the same though ansomething i'm very much in favor of.. In the US you’re not obliged to sell or accept money from customers you don’t want so sell too, by (constitutional) decree.

as a classical liberal/ leaning liberatarian I whole heartily concur with that
I think the idea is that, as a restaurant owner you can't just put up a sign saying "No Christians allowed" because that would be unconstitutional. But if you have a customer who is a prominent Christian, and that customer has donated money to anti-LGBTQ+ causes to influence politics, you can discriminate against them based on their political actions. That is perfectly constitutional.
 
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jetflag

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Yup and again something i'm perfectly in favor of and hopefully something that (but i'm not going to hold my breath in for it) the NL government would at some point adopt.

freedom to sell or not, freedom to buy or not.
 
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