Public Intellectuals

[Bobby Summa]

We have a thread for this actually, it's one of my favs. Maybe you can post your thoughts and experiences there: How we used to live (serious topic)

That gives me hope 🫶

 

[dmgtz96]

Given the news today of Apple criticising Elon Musk. What is the significance of Twitter?
I keep thinking with all this attention on Twitter, and the rest of the social media.

How significant a part does this play on most peoples ‘actual’ lives.

How important really is this stuff ?

It's not. Otherwise "influencers" would get a lot of free stuff, but for the most part they don't.

Obviously for some businesses perhaps it’s essential for promotion and marketing. Maybe the same for an artist if they really want success.

But…

Does social media have to be paid that much attention or is it so easy to get sucked in to the less healthy aspects of it, that many won’t even know that they have.

Would perhaps most people be happier without so much of it?

Yep, I'm pretty sure that excessive use of social media is linked to depression and other mental health disorders. Many people would be better off just not using social media.

 

[dmgtz96]

Anyways, the attention on Twitter is happening because it's frankly entertaining watching Elon melt down in real time (and a large chunk of his wealth vanish). Elon desperately wants Twitter to be a bastion of "free speech," but at the same time he is criticizing companies exercising their free speech when they don't want to work with him or advertise on Twitter.
The hypocrisy is hilarious and shows that he's not that smart or the "free speech" supporter he thinks he is.

 

[Jetflag]

Anyways, the attention on Twitter is happening because it's frankly entertaining watching Elon melt down in real time (and a large chunk of his wealth vanish). Elon desperately wants Twitter to be a bastion of "free speech," but at the same time he is criticizing companies exercising their free speech when they don't want to work with him or advertise on Twitter.
The hypocrisy is hilarious and shows that he's not that smart or the "free speech" supporter he thinks he is.

err, and how is critiquing companies for not wanting to work with him a limitation on (their) free speech precisely?

they can still perfectly voice their opinion on the platform m8. So far he's only banned unverified impersonation (slander etc) accounts and cracked down on pedo networks. Where did he ban Apple's voice again? how does publically critiquing someone for not wanting to work with witter translate to anti-free-speech in your mind exactly?


I do agree that the levels of dual-standard have indeed been hilarious, but not coming from Musk who's actually fairly consistent in his (rather) centrist right position on that.

The same people that, for the latter half of the last decade done nothing but screetch rhetoric like:
- "offensive speech is violence"
- "consequence-culture"
and my personal favorite:
- "bro, its a private company it can do what it wants"

Now all of a sudden care about unlimited free speech.
Now that is their little monopolized online culture fun-platform on the line, all of a sudden free speech became the highest virtue again instead of "muh dogwistle fascism"

yeah get bend..certain folks either have a very selective memory or are very small hypocrite children who might want to read up on concepts like consistency.

Meanwhile on the financial front and based on the annualized percentages at least: twitters net profit margin skyrocketed from minus 20% to plus 28% overnight. Thats more then Apple and Google. the Docs are on the SEC website. Dunno bout you, but I've yet to see if this so called inevitable crash that's being prayed for is actually going to happen

 

[dmgtz96]

I don't even know where to post this, because it doesn't really fit in any of the other threads (conservative v liberal, how we used to live, etc.)
but
Kanye West's antisemitic comments show just how poorly prepared Elon Musk was to head a major social media website. When you call for unrestricted "free speech," one of the first things that pops up right after child p*rn is antisemitism. There's a reason all of these websites have content moderation and don't just unban banned members for the lulz, or for "free speech."
The "free speech" that most conservatives aim for is not real free speech. In our society you cannot expect to say whatever you want consequence-free. Others can and will stop associating with you for what you say, especially if you are being antisemitic.
"Free speech" as defined by conservatives has no place in our society, and we should not give a platform to antisemites.

 

[Jetflag]

Kanye West's antisemitic comments show just how poorly prepared Elon Musk was to head a major social media website. When you call for unrestricted "free speech," one of the first things that pops up right after child p*rn is antisemitism.

Strawman, he never called for unrestricted free speech, he called for unbiased free speech. Which is why Ye's twitters account was immidiatly suspended over that. Please stop your (unhealthy) hateboner from copypasting or making up misinformation.

The "free speech" that most conservatives aim for is not real free speech. In our society you cannot expect to say whatever you want consequence-free. Others can and will stop associating with you for what you say, especially if you are being antisemitic.

...Whilst the The left's definition of unrestricive free speech (and antisemitism) is basically "Its ok when we do it" which is why progressives are all to happy to turn a blind eye towards antisemitism from pundits like Ilhan Omar, and why conservatives like say: Shapiro or Musk are actually consistent in their stance free speech and antisemitism.

The general conservative viewpoint on free speech is: no incitement, defamation, fraud, obscenity/child pornography and threats. This is also (still) Twitters policy.

 

[dmgtz96]

Strawman, he never called for unrestricted free speech, he called for unbiased free speech. Which is why Ye's twitters account was immidiatly suspended over that. Please stop your (unhealthy) hateboner from copypasting or making up misinformation.

He unbanned Ye and Trump. In what world is that considered "unbiased"?

...Whilst the The left's definition of unrestricive free speech (and antisemitism) is basically "Its ok when we do it" which is why progressives are all to happy to turn a blind eye towards antisemitism from pundits like Ilhan Omar, and why conservatives like say: Shapiro or Musk are actually consistent in their stance free speech and antisemitism.

The general conservative viewpoint on free speech is: no incitement, defamation, fraud, obscenity/child pornography and threats. This is also (still) Twitters policy.

Ilhan Omar was actually condemned for her anti-semitic comments by Democratic leadership.

 

[Jetflag]

He unbanned Ye and Trump. In what world is that considered "unbiased"?

A fair, unbaised world , (and not one run by extreme ideologues and tribalists who donate and consisted of 99% democrat) Equal monks, equal hoods. If the taliban& antifa get a pass , so should trump & ye.


Ilhan Omar was hardly condemned for her anti-semitic comments by Democratic leadership, and its not like she stopped doing it, Ilhan Omar: US congresswoman defends 'offensive' Israel remark yet her twitter account is still up there.

Meanwhile ye was defacto condemned by having his account (again) suspended.

The picture you sketched in your previous post is a false one, demonstrably. Twitter skewed heavily left before Musk took over, whos now, Thank God, equalizing the field again. Thats the very definition of fair and unbiased.

 

[dmgtz96]

A fair, unbaised world , (and not one run by extreme ideologues and tribalists who donate and consisted of 99% democrat) Equal monks, equal hoods. If the taliban& antifa get a pass , so should trump & ye.


Ilhan Omar was hardly condemned for her anti-semitic comments by Democratic leadership, and its not like she stopped doing it, Ilhan Omar: US congresswoman defends 'offensive' Israel remark yet her twitter account is still up there.

The article mentions in every other paragraph that she's been condemned by Democratic leadership and is a "headache", but yeah in principle it's odd that her Twitter account is still up and running

Meanwhile ye was defacto condemned by having his account (again) suspended.

Of course, in the modern world Nazism is immediately banned.

The picture you sketched in your previous post is a false one, demonstrably. Twitter skewed heavily left before Musk took over, whos now, Thank God, equalizing the field again. Thats the very definition of fair and unbiased.

Twitter did skew left heavily, but unbanning trump, ye, and other ultra conservative/borderline fascist figures is not a victory

 

[Jetflag]

The article mentions in every other paragraph that she's been condemned by Democratic leadership and is a "headache", but yeah in principle it's odd that her Twitter account is still up and running

Its not odd at all, she, like everyone else (exception being perhaps alex jones because Musk personally hates his guts, which on rare exception actually ís unprincipled of him) got pardonned as part of the leadership transfer.

Of course, in the modern world Nazism is immediately banned.

right. so musk did nothing wrong then, did not promote or endorse "unrestricive" free speech, and bans anyone, friend of foe alike who does not follow the twitter rules concerning what you can and cannot say/post.

Twitter did skew left heavily, but unbanning trump, ye, and other ultra conservative/borderline fascist figures is not a victory

Well not for the left and their loss of the twitter monopoly no. But if (one of) the or your main concern is whether or not twitter is being fair and unbaised or not...
then yes, Then them being part of this recent "great twitter reset" is a good thing as it is defacto fair an unbaised.

And anyone (like Ye or Klein) who breaks the rules after that gets what they deserve. Which again, is actually why I think on principled grounds he should have let Jones back on the platform, he can always ban him right after he posts his first mistake there...but its his company

 

[Hot Tuna]

I love how every time yet another personality from a right-wing angle performs an actual literal crime or act of hate speech, the response is "ahh, but the left the left the left", despite the fact that it's always the right doing these things.

 

[dmgtz96]

Its not odd at all, she, like everyone else (exception being perhaps alex jones because Musk personally hates his guts, which on rare exception actually ís unprincipled of him) got pardonned as part of the leadership transfer.


right. so musk did nothing wrong then, did not promote or endorse "unrestricive" free speech, and bans anyone, friend of foe alike who does not follow the twitter rules concerning what you can and cannot say/post.


Well not for the left and their loss of the twitter monopoly no. But if (one of) the or your main concern is whether or not twitter is being fair and unbaised or not...
then yes, Then them being part of this recent "great twitter reset" is a good thing as it is defacto fair an unbaised.

And anyone (like Ye or Klein) who breaks the rules after that gets what they deserve. Which again, is actually why I think on principled grounds he should have let Jones back on the platform, he can always ban him right after he posts his first mistake there...but its his company

Why do you insist on platforming nazis and white supremacists?

 

[Jetflag]

Why do you insist on platforming nazis and white supremacists?

how does:

- Ilham Omar being pardonned
- Musk for personal reasons (so not principled) not letting Jones on:
- Him banning Ye after he broke the rules with a swastika and me being ok with that ban

Translate in your head to me "insisting" that Nazi's and white supremacists should be platformed exactly?

I've seen a lot of retarded strawmen and red herrings of the years on the internet but this one wins the golden medal...

 

[dmgtz96]

how does:

- Ilham Omar being pardonned
- Musk for personal reasons (so not principled) not letting Jones on:
- Him banning Ye after he broke the rules with a swastika and me being ok with that ban

Translate in your head to me "insisting" that Nazi's and white supremacists should be platformed exactly?

I've seen a lot of retarded strawmen and red herrings of the years on the internet but this one wins the golden medal...

let's say the quiet part out loud: free speech the way you want it (from a classical liberal point of view) invites nazis, white supremacists, and racists into the platform.

Knew a guy like that from college who posted an ultra tone-deaf op-ed on the campus newspaper after a racist incident happened. No thank you, I'll continue strawmanning/red herring to counter your shitty point of view.

 

[Jetflag]

let's say the quiet part out loud: free speech the way you want it (from a classical liberal point of view) invites nazis, white supremacists, and racists into the platform.

Knew a guy like that from college who posted an ultra tone-deaf op-ed on the campus newspaper after a racist incident happened. No thank you, I'll continue strawmanning/red herring to counter your shitty point of view.

Yeah it doesn’t surprise me one bit coming from someone who’s already admitted to being a selfprofessed hypocrite ánd tribalist to engage in toddler-tactics like strawmanning an opponents position when they can’t win on equal grounds.

So to reiterate my actual position:

- I think rules, whatever those may be, should be applied fairly and to everyone.

if that ^ has to auto translate to “enabling nazi’s hurdle” in your mind, (because some rando from your college wrote an oped in your campus newspaper once…? Lolwut)

then I don’t know what to tell you other then: yup, cultish behaviour..(and quite moronic at that)

 

[dmgtz96]

Yeah it doesn’t surprise me one bit coming from someone who’s already admitted to being a selfprofessed hypocrite ánd tribalist to engage in toddler-tactics like strawmanning an opponents position when they can’t win on equal grounds.

So to reiterate my actual position:

- I think rules, whatever those may be, should be applied fairly and to everyone.

if that ^ has to auto translate to “enabling nazi’s hurdle” in your mind, (because some rando from your college wrote an oped in your campus newspaper once…? Lolwut)

then I don’t know what to tell you other then: yup, cultish behaviour..(and quite moronic at that)

no, your premise is that the left and right are both equally wrong, which is incorrect

 

[Jetflag]

no, your premise is that the left and right are both equally wrong, which is incorrect

That is incorrect indeed, and not my premise,

my premise is the left is by Far the Worse one.

On overall historical body count alone, but also in terms of ideas on morality, practicality regarding society and the human condition etc.

 

[dmgtz96]

That is incorrect indeed, and not my premise,

my premise is the left is by Far the Worse one.

On overall historical body count alone, but also in terms of ideas on morality, practicality regarding society and the human condition etc.

The left is not the far worse, at least not in the US.
If our society falls apart because people no longer want to abide by "traditional family values," by religion, by well-defined gender/hierarchical roles, and no longer wsnt to have children, then that society was not worth having at all.

 

[Jetflag]

The left is not the far worse, at least not in the US.
If our society falls apart because people no longer want to abide by "traditional family values," by religion, by well-defined gender/hierarchical roles, and no longer wsnt to have children, then that society was not worth having at all.

I'll happiliy continue why think the left is worse in the politics thread we have for that: We should stop polluting the public intellectuals thread with this

But sufficed to say it semi revolves around the notions that 1 the whole world is not the US and not your Austin bubble for that matter. And 2 that not one single genocidal dictatorship was ever founded on the principles of free speech and individual expression something both the Nazi's and the communists, (both regimes combined slaughered half my family on a personal note by the way), hated with a passion.

for the rest yes, Any society that does not reproduce and/or mutilates the genitals of the children is does produce irreversibly is not only worth having, but will simply die off.

^copied for the next thread

 

[dmgtz96]

Moving this conversation here, @jetflag

its not and i never said it was, (speaking of tone-deafness/dishonesty from your end) have you actualy read anything I wrote? or are you just projecting, whilst grinding your teeth, foaming at the mouth from behind your keyboard/screen? because it sure comes across like that lol.

I do, but it rubs me the wrong way that you keep siding with the anti-woke/anti-SJW crowd. Although there are reasons to be frustrated at the woke/SJW crowd, the media you consume in conservative spaces is most likely overblown. Racism in America is very complex - I'm still understanding it myself and should pick up a sociology textbook on that topic, - but if the US were not a racist country, we would have already seen a black female leading character in a fantasy movie. I'm not talking about specific individuals being prejudiced against black people per se, but more of the legal/socioeconomic/financial/urban development structures that prevented someone who looks like Halle Bailey to be a leading actress in a major blockbuster.
CRT is also a boogie man that your media overlords love to prop up, but in reality CRT is a college/graduate school concept. Shit, I went to college here and didn't learn about it because I was a STEM major and did not take the social sciences course that would have taught it. My point is, CRT is likely not being taught at elementary/middle schools to "make white kids feel guilty."

On Andrew Tate:

1 ISIS are muslims.

Well, yeah. Just like cartel members are probably Catholic

2 I'm not the one placing ethnic or religious minorities (like the muslim minority in your country) on a pedestal all simply because they're that, thats more you then me out of the two of us. And yes, as being pro-individual/individualty and anti-group think. Ánd no fan of either Islam or Tate I wholeheartily agree that he can get the full brunt of critique for..whatever.

So this is very interesting, because after you made your first comment about Andrew Tate being Muslim and implied that criticism toward him could be considered "islamophobic," I went ahead and looked up a couple articles/reddit threads about his conversion to Islam. It turns out that, in Islamic faith, Muslims pardon those who convert into their faith, so (in theory) Muslims need to give Andrew Tate a free pass for all the awful things that he's done.
I'm not a Muslim, and as far as I know neither you are, so we can criticize him for being who he is. If I criticize a misogynist, human trafficker Muslim for being a misogynist and human trafficker, I'm not being Islamophobic. That would only be true if I criticized him specifically for being a Muslim. Frankly, I don't care what faith he converts to - he's still a piece of shit human in my eyes.
Anyways, I wasn't sure if you were aware of that part about Islamic faith, which is why I made that comment (which, in hindsight, looks a bit strange without that added context)

edit:
3 dunno actually: Tate is a public figure so maybe even more suitable for the Public intellectuals (though I wouldn't call him that by a mile) thread.