Public Intellectuals

[dmgtz96]

oh I don't think he's infallible, there's lot of points I disagree with him on. So things like aristotilian philosphy and AGW and actually side more on a lot of topics with his frennemy, Sam Harris. A close friend of hitch and part of the 4 horsemen you might be familiar with.

But I do think he's a breath of fresh air compared to the polarising forces of:

1: Woman should be nailed to kitchen - Tate
and
1: All men are scum - Latter day Saints of the Church of the Holy Vagina.



We sure agree on the Hitch being sorely missed.

You can exclude both Jordan Peterson fans and radical feminists and still have a solid group of decent people to interact with in real life.
A Jordan Peterson fanboy in 2022, or someone who says Peterson "makes good points" is not someone I would want to be friends with today.

 

[Jetflag]

You can exclude both Jordan Peterson fans and radical feminists and still have a solid group of decent people to interact with in real life.
A Jordan Peterson fanboy in 2022, or someone who says Peterson "makes good points" is not someone I would want to be friends with today.

You ARE a radical feminist in more then one way dmgtz96. You believe in utterly debunked nonsense, sorry to say so, like “the pay gap”. And think western society is a tyrannical patriarchy

and so of course anything directly contradicting that, what I would describe as cultish doctrine, is unacceptable to associate with for you


I for one have plenty (if not most) moderately feminist friends who have no problem with most of what the man is saying or writing

But you know, You do you

 

[Hot Tuna]

As if any women listen to Jordan Peterson.

 

[dmgtz96]

As if any women listen to Jordan Peterson.

I guess it depends on your circle and how attuned they are to viral online men's stuff. A non-Christian college grad in the US likely wouldn't know about him unless a dude she dated / her boyfriend got into Jordan Peterson, or she herself agrees with Peterson and is anti-feminist.

 

[Jetflag]

I guess it depends on your circle and how attuned they are to viral online men's stuff. A non-Christian college grad in the US likely wouldn't know about him unless a dude she dated / her boyfriend got into Jordan Peterson, or she herself agrees with Peterson and is anti-feminist.

well you are in one of the most if not the most liberal towns in America so that might have something to do with your weltanschauung.

But Jordan's content and audience (including the female side of that) date far further back then his recent internet fame. He's a renowned clinical psychologist,scientist and university lecturer with over 2000 hours of said content online, mostly attended by women, who dominate that profession disproportionatly. And a lot of which (particulary the succesfull-carreer-bend feminist types) he has helped in the advancement of their career via his clinical practise.

which is strikingly odd behavior for an alleged woman-hating manosphere mysogenist

 

[Bobby Summa]

@jetflag Did you mention we could change the name of this group to something that can include a broader scope of speakers talkers and … well, people. I think if we are objective we could include speakers who provide useful education on other matters in life than just an intellectual angle. Because for one, our intelect is only one type of inteligence. Perhaps one people value too much. Or to put it another way, people don’t value the others enough, such as emotional inteligence (empathy)

 

[Jetflag]

@jetflag Did you mention we could change the name of this group to something that can include a broader scope of speakers talkers and … well, people. I think if we are objective we could include speakers who provide useful education on other matters in life than just an intellectual angle. Because for one, our intelect is only one type of inteligence. Perhaps one people value too much. Or to put it another way, people don’t value the others enough, such as emotional inteligence (empathy)

well i'm in favor but i'm not the thread creator, @Gagi is the man to ask

 

[dmgtz96]

well you are in one of the most if not the most liberal towns in America so that might have something to do with your weltanschauung.

But Jordan's content and audience (including the female side of that) date far further back then his recent internet fame. He's a renowned clinical psychologist,scientist and university lecturer with over 2000 hours of said content online, mostly attended by women, who dominate that profession disproportionatly. And a lot of which (particulary the succesfull-carreer-bend feminist types) he has helped in the advancement of their career via his clinical practise.

which is strikingly odd behavior for an alleged woman-hating manosphere mysogenist

well, there was the big shift in his mindset in 2016, but I'll grant you that his previous work probably helped a lot of people including women

 

[Hensmon]

Funny to watch Elon Musk take over twitter, and then personally fact check a post from Hillary Clinton with her commentary on the Pelosi incident - highlighting the dangers of extreme right-wing fake news/propaganda - by using his own extreme right-wing (fake news?) tabloid news article, which he then swiftly removes, I assume after being made aware of its lack of validity. It doesn't bode well does it haha.

Ironically enough I am actually kind of a fan of his take-over, if what he said about about open sourcing the code is true, so we all have transparency on how information is distributed and censored, and generally less state and corporate driven censorship in general. Good stuff!

It shows that he is human just like the rest of the public intellectuals, and like the rest of us. He can simultaneously be a brilliant mind, but also gullible and prone to bias. It's nice to know the richest man in the world can be brainwashed just as easily as the rest of us haha. Really love his space X vision stuff in all honestly.

 

[dmgtz96]

Funny to watch Elon Musk take over twitter, and then personally fact check a post from Hillary Clinton with her commentary on the Pelosi incident - highlighting the dangers of extreme right-wing fake news/propaganda - by using his own extreme right-wing (fake news?) tabloid news article, which he then swiftly removes, I assume after being made aware of its lack of validity. It doesn't bode well does it haha.

Ironically enough I am actually kind of a fan of his take-over, if what he said about about open sourcing the code is true, so we all have transparency on how information is distributed and censored, and generally less state and corporate driven censorship in general. Good stuff!

It shows that he is human just like the rest of the public intellectuals, and like the rest of us. He can simultaneously be a brilliant mind, but also gullible and prone to bias. It's nice to know the richest man in the world can be brainwashed just as easily as the rest of us haha. Really love his space X vision stuff in all honestly.

I just saw that he dissolved the twitter board of directors, holy crap

 

[Perpetuous dreamer]

Yes Elon appears intellectual and unintellectual at the same time. As a public figure he is interesting but comes out with utter nonsense and I think his asperger’s prevents him from analyzing society and it’s patterns properly.

It makes him a brilliant entrepreneur but a lousy social analyst and commentator.

As for his failed rebuttal of Hilary Clinton… I think she is highlighting something real. Right-wing brainwashing is through the roof and this is a result. Someone in the UK just threw three incendiary bombs directed at migrants and refugees. A few years ago one nutcase stabbed a labour politician to death. They do this because the right-wing media scapegoats all blame onto foreigners or anyone but the corrupt corporate and state crooks that run our country. January 6th another example of conspiracy gone wild. Grown men running around with cable ties and weapons, hunting the democratically elected. The fear and deflection agenda is truly working wonders on the right-wing atm. Thank god we’ve got Elon at the helm to help steer us back to the truth.

 

[Hot Tuna]

You're spot on but I hope that last sentence is sarcasm. Twitter is going on a rapid sprint to the bottom from here.

 

[Perpetuous dreamer]

Sarcasm. But I don’t see it as black and white as some. You know my feelings on covid and how we observed censorship on completely valid, evidence backed ideas. There’s every possibility we’d see less of that censorship, if he is true to the supposed principles he claims he has. I’ll let time be the judge before jumping to conclusions. Early signs are not promising.

 

[dmgtz96]

Sarcasm. But I don’t see it as black and white as some. You know my feelings on covid and how we observed censorship on completely valid, evidence backed ideas. There’s every possibility we’d see less of that censorship, if he is true to the supposed principles he claims he has. I’ll let time be the judge before jumping to conclusions. Early signs are not promising.

In reality, no social media including so-called alt tech can retain full "free speech" as long as they want to get non-zero money from advertisers. And, frankly, Elon is not in a position to reject advertising money, which he desperately needs.

The cold dose of reality awaiting Elon Musk

 

[Archon]

I don't think Elon Musk will do anything but try to make Elon Musk some more money. He's a (wacky) CEO/owner/founder/businessman, hardly an intellectual.

 

[Bobby Summa]

I don't think Elon Musk will do anything but try to make Elon Musk some more money. He's a (wacky) CEO/owner/founder/businessman, hardly an intellectual.

Completely aggree.

I cant work out why people as rich as him want more money though, unless they are addicted to the sense of power. I don’t really believe he wants to do incredible things to save the ( people on the) planet. Even if there is good looking reasons for his space exploration. Something to do with if growing plants works in space or something. Anyway, if all the wealth from the billionaires was shared sensibly around the world it would probably leave no one wanting the essential things people need for survival such as food and adequate shelter.

I don’t think freedom of speech is always right. I believe elon is allowing Trump back on to twitter. Has anyone seen the videos of Trumps son talking to people about his dad and him loving Jesus etc. ( Bullshit do they) Using religion to look good. The ‘God’ damn scary thing about it was the people the media talked to who believe every word. I don’t think ive ever seen a bunch of intellectualy challenged completely brainwashed huge crowd of people in my life. Christ that was the most worrying thing ive seen in years.

 

[Hensmon]

I don't think Elon Musk will do anything but try to make Elon Musk some more money. He's a (wacky) CEO/owner/founder/businessman, hardly an intellectual.

Cmon he's clearly a highly intelligent individual. Also I think its wrong to assume the richest man in history is just doing this for more money. In fact I would bet it's not the reason. Some will say it's so he can control information in his favor. Maybe. Personally that seems like a lazy and bit of a reactionary take on it to me. I watched him talk with TED and there seemed a bunch of reasons and good ideas in why he purchased the platform. The open source code, less aggressive censorship and general transparency to name a few, all of which seem like worthy things to pursue if you see value in social media as a means to distribute information, which I think he does.

 

[Jetflag]

So there's 2 potentially great things coming from this. So a win-win scenario.

1: Musk will reform twitter into a successful (and honest) internet-populist-town square where free speech reigns, which is a good thing.

2: Musk will drive twitter into the ground with his current model/backlash from the establishment, which means no more Twitter, which is a good thing.

I for one won't be making a twitter account either way because I just hate the format in general. Maybe it’s the limitation on characters..Dunno.

As for Musk being a public intellectual, this harkens back to the earlier talk I had with Bobby if Sadh Guru is one. I would say no (and suggest we change the title of this topic to Public Figures) A public intellectual for me is someone who brings a set of (own/unique) ideas to the table/public, usually in the form of (academic) literature/philosophy. Musk isn’t doing that.

Musk however is a brilliant Entrepreneur, who consistently takes existing concepts…
(banking, electric vehicles, rockets, satellites and, who knows later, social media)

..and combines them with other existing concepts (Internet, Sexy aesthetic and mass production, re-usability and social media being a product for you, instead of you being twitters product, in case of the 8 dollar blue-checkmark prescription)

..into very successful and world-changing business(es),

But then again ,that could be equally said of someone like Steve Jobs, so as an architype he's not all that unique i'd say, though defo the man of our time. As for his philosophy. He’s pretty much a libertarian who’s (own) money he puts into other world changing businesses in a manner more successful and effective than any government institute or cloth-brained politician would dream of doing with your (tax) money.

So:

- Public figure? Defo.
- Brilliant entrepreneur/businessman? Defo
- Net force for good in this world? Yes (unless you’re a pro-big-government ideologue and/or AOC and/or and SJW screetcher who’s just been sacked from twitter for being the number 10! manager on 1 actual coder, lol )
- Public intellectual specifically? I'd go with not really.

 

[dmgtz96]

Cmon he's clearly a highly intelligent individual. Also I think its wrong to assume the richest man in history is just doing this for more money. In fact I would bet it's not the reason. Some will say it's so he can control information in his favor. Maybe. Personally that seems like a lazy and bit of a reactionary take on it to me. I watched him talk with TED and there seemed a bunch of reasons and good ideas in why he purchased the platform. The open source code, less aggressive censorship and general transparency to name a few, all of which seem like worthy things to pursue if you see value in social media as a means to distribute information, which I think he does.

He probably had his reasons to buy Twitter other than money, but he didn't do his due dilligence and bought it on a shitty deal. He's basically guaranteed to lose his money unless he gets his shit together and Twitter starts moderating again. All advertisers are currently leaving in droves.
The advertisers with real money, like Pfizer and GM, will not want to be associated with the cesspool of "free speech" that is Elon Musk's twitter. You know who will be the only ones ok with the way he is running things? People you've vaguely heard of, like the MyPillow guy (who has very little power in society) and that one beef company Brett Cooper did an ad for. Right-wing channels never have big corporations backing them up, it's always the randomest crap. And, a company bleeding millions per day like twitter needs big corporations unless Elon is fine losing his wealth in a dumpster fire.

 

[dmgtz96]

So there's 2 potentially great things coming from this. So a win-win scenario.

1: Musk will reform twitter into a successful (and honest) internet-populist-town square where free speech reigns, which is a good thing.

2: Musk will drive twitter into the ground with his current model/backlash from the establishment, which means no more Twitter, which is a good thing.

I for one won't be making a twitter account either way because I just hate the format in general. Maybe it’s the limitation on characters..Dunno.

As for Musk being a public intellectual, this harkens back to the earlier talk I had with Bobby if Sadh Guru is one. I would say no (and suggest we change the title of this topic to Public Figures) A public intellectual for me is someone who brings a set of (own/unique) ideas to the table/public, usually in the form of (academic) literature/philosophy. Musk isn’t doing that.

Musk however is a brilliant Entrepreneur, who consistently takes existing concepts…
(banking, electric vehicles, rockets, satellites and, who knows later, social media)

..and combines them with other existing concepts (Internet, Sexy aesthetic and mass production, re-usability and social media being a product for you, instead of you being twitters product, in case of the 8 dollar blue-checkmark prescription)

..into very successful and world-changing business(es),

But then again ,that could be equally said of someone like Steve Jobs, so as an architype he's not all that unique i'd say, though defo the man of our time. As for his philosophy. He’s pretty much a libertarian who’s (own) money he puts into other world changing businesses in a manner more successful and effective than any government institute or cloth-brained politician would dream of doing with your (tax) money.

So:

- Public figure? Defo.
- Brilliant entrepreneur/businessman? Defo
- Net force for good in this world? Yes (unless you’re a pro-big-government ideologue and/or AOC and/or and SJW screetcher who’s just been sacked from twitter for being the number 10! manager on 1 actual coder, lol )
- Public intellectual specifically? I'd go with not really.

2 is the most likely outcome. A free speech social network does not exist because all the previous attempts at creating one have failed. It's not an engineering problem.
All of Elon's ventures so far have been related to engineering and technology. Twitter involves political acumen with all the countries of the world that Elon simply does not have.