Woke culture and its effects on society

Atragun91091

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Hey all,

apologies for bumping this, I've been meaning to chime in on this thread for sometime. I have to largely agree with @jetflag and his post. Woke culture has been detrimental to males(and females) and Western culture alike.

Here in the United States, the woke propaganda is extremely evident. I've come to see this in many forms. For example, many of our television commercials have some kind of woke subliminal messaging(or they may just flat out say what their message is). I've seen plenty of commercials where they focus on the woman being the breadwinner and the strong one, while the male is in the background being portrayed as incompetent or the "comical relief", basically saying that males are bafoons who need as strong woman to get them through life.

Same can be said about minority groups. We have many commercials(especially for college/university) where minorities of other cultures are heavily promoted. Again, predominantly female and/or minority in general. Don't even get me started on our modern television shows. Its always the same thing anymore. The woman is the breadwinner, her best friend/voice of reason is from the LGBT community and is usually a person of color while the comic relief/bafoon is a white male who makes a fool of himself.

Doesn't stop there though, even our army is becoming "woke'. They recently put out a commercial promoting a soldier who was brought up by two moms. To say it was cringe inducing would be an understatement. I remember Russia then put out a commercial of their own that was the pure opposite ,and showed strength, grit and masculinity. In Essence, what an army should be.

I won't even go into too much discussion about the current US Government. Our current administration is a full on disaster that openly panders to SJW's and their woke ideology. An example of this would be Dr. Rachael(Richard) Levine, a transexual who was promoted to assistant secretary for health. The reason? Because they're a transexual. Dr. Levine actually originated from my home state(Pennsylvania) and is actually responsible for the deaths of many elderly patients in nursing homes. Basically, covid patients were transferred to nursing homes to recover, and it caused many of the elderly to die, but because we're talking about something that's looked upon positively in the woke ideology, its ignored and Dr. Levine was rewarded for their incompetency.

If you dare question or try to reason with any of the stuff I've written about, your called all kinds of nasty names like a bigot, racist, told that you have a fragile male ego(or ego in general), told to check our privilege and other humiliating things. Much of this is directed towards the western male, and let me tell you, it gets to you after a while. Being told that you're responsible for the suffering of so many others from centuries ago, being excluded and not being able to talk to anyone. Its basically a clown world.

I know my post is probably considered "barebones" and "condensed", and I haven't read the full thread, but I hope my post will still offer some healthy insight and debate. As I said, I agree with Jetflag's statement. That woke culture is the reason for the rise of suicides in western males. Its certainly effected mentally, and I hope sooner or later that the woke ideology is brought down.
 
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Gagi

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Tribalism of any basis (ideology/race/ethnicity/religion/sex/victimhood/etc) is bad, and can be encountered anywhere on the planet. It's sad that it's being used to sort of level the playing field, in an extreme way, and as fast as possible. It's not sustainable in the long term anyways, but it will do some damage.

But let's be real, didn't the hatred/mocking/stigma/etc of gay people give rise to their suicide rates?

Both that and the woke culture are equally bad, but let's acknowledge that the woke culture is just an implementation (sorry for the programmer's analogy) of a mix of tribalism and stigma against any other subset of the population.
 

jetflag

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But let's be real, didn't the hatred/mocking/stigma/etc of gay people give rise to their suicide rates?
I'm convinced it most certainly did.

which is why it utterly baffles me when I point out that when the same mechanics is being applied to western men, all of a sudden people label it "a load of nonsense" to assume it will also affect their suicide rates? 😅

like..where did the logic go all of a sudden?
 
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dmgtz96

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An example of this would be Dr. Rachael(Richard) Levine, a transexual who was promoted to assistant secretary for health. The reason? Because they're a transexual. Dr. Levine actually originated from my home state(Pennsylvania) and is actually responsible for the deaths of many elderly patients in nursing homes. Basically, covid patients were transferred to nursing homes to recover, and it caused many of the elderly to die, but because we're talking about something that's looked upon positively in the woke ideology, its ignored and Dr. Levine was rewarded for their incompetency.

False. There is no evidence linking her to the elderly patient deaths in nursing homes.
Get your facts from a reputable source, not Marjorie Taylor-Greene's tweets or wherever in Facebook/Parler you saw this.
 

dmgtz96

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But let's be real, didn't the hatred/mocking/stigma/etc of gay people give rise to their suicide rates?
False equivalence.
The issues of the LGBT community are not the same as those of the Western heterosexual white male. Hatred, mocking, stigma will have a much greater impact on the former community as a whole.
The same can be said for minorities and women. Hatred, mocking, stigma will affect marginalized groups much more than the Western heterosexual white male.
 

Hot Tuna

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The exact same thing re: care homes happened in the UK and here our populist government is being celebrated for its Covid response by the very same people who would bemoan 'woke culture'.

How does a trans person in a government position affect you? What is it about that that makes you upset?
 
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dmgtz96

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How does a trans person in a government position affect you? What is it about that that makes you upset?
It's a zero-sum game for them. You can't have anyone different in power, because God forbid anyone other than a heterosexual white male is chosen for the position.
 
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Gagi

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False equivalence.
The issues of the LGBT community are not the same as those of the Western heterosexual white male. Hatred, mocking, stigma will have a much greater impact on the former community as a whole.
The same can be said for minorities and women. Hatred, mocking, stigma will affect marginalized groups much more than the Western heterosexual white male.
Alright, I'll give you that being a minority (as well as bullied etc) can have a slightly bigger impact (because of them having less 'similar' people to rely on), but I would argue that people don't off themselves just for being stigmatized. People who kill themselves, I think, do it because they really feel that their entire future is only full of pain and suffering, that they won't ever be happy. Now, in case of a gay man, he may feel that his parents will hate him forever for it and that he will be looked down upon by people he appreciates. A hetero white male might just get blamed by his peers for things he didn't do, which may make him feel hated and isolated from everyone else. Add to that other factors such as age, proneness to depression, suicide history in the family, upbringing etc.

Why women though? Women have lower suicide rates, especially in the Western world.
 
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Atragun91091

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Tribalism of any basis (ideology/race/ethnicity/religion/sex/victimhood/etc) is bad, and can be encountered anywhere on the planet. It's sad that it's being used to sort of level the playing field, in an extreme way, and as fast as possible. It's not sustainable in the long term anyways, but it will do some damage.

But let's be real, didn't the hatred/mocking/stigma/etc of gay people give rise to their suicide rates?

Both that and the woke culture are equally bad, but let's acknowledge that the woke culture is just an implementation (sorry for the programmer's analogy) of a mix of tribalism and stigma against any other subset of the population.

I certainly don't disagree with your statement on tribalism. Its a dangerous concept, but has been ingrained into humans since the dawn of time. I don't see it vanishing anytime soon. That's one reason why things in my country and rapidly going down hill. Decades ago, people were more united. Now, people are more divided than ever. Doesn't help that the media plays into the tribal like mindset. This further encourages the divide.

I personally don't have an answer for that. I know the LGBT community has faced a lot of hardships in the past, and I'm certainly happy that LGBT people now don't have to live in fear here in the USA. I've always supported their right to marry and to just be left alone and viewed as people. That being said, some of the most hateful and bigoted people come from the LGBT community. Not to mention you have many from that community that are taking advantaging of their "status" and using it to force their views on the general population.

But yeah, I agree that the woke ideology is bad along with tribalism within politics. As I said, I really hope that wokeness has its downfall soon.
 
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Atragun91091

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False. There is no evidence linking her to the elderly patient deaths in nursing homes.
Get your facts from a reputable source, not Marjorie Taylor-Greene's tweets or wherever in Facebook/Parler you saw this.
I don't. Its well known here in PA that Dr. Levine was responsible for their deaths.

Out of curiosity, where are you getting your info?
 

jetflag

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False equivalence.
The issues of the LGBT community are not the same as those of the Western heterosexual white male. Hatred, mocking, stigma will have a much greater impact on the former community as a whole.
The same can be said for minorities and women. Hatred, mocking, stigma will affect marginalized groups much more than the Western heterosexual white male.
Why?

Are western men "ubermenschen" who can take it better according to you?
Does the aforementioned abuse impact an individual less because the overall group is bigger and if yes on what do you base that?
Are minority group males, women and gays just weaker maybe?

Whats your justification for assuming the impact is greater for all of them but bizarro somehow non existent/lesser for western men?
 
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jetflag

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How does a trans person in a government position affect you? What is it about that that makes you upset?
1 The fact that the position given is based on identity. Not merrit.

And
2 the fact that because its a government position.. it involves legislation and law that do directly affect whatevers below.. which is now being drafted by someone who's not there because of great work and/or credentials, but because its the right minority group.

I couldn't give two squats about a persons sex, prefered sex or transition for that matter. as long as he. she or "zer" isn't put there because of and only because of said transition.
 
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jetflag

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It's a zero-sum game for them. You can't have anyone different in power, because God forbid anyone other than a heterosexual white male is chosen for the position.
yeah that totally doesn't come across as you being massively tribal and uncharitable towards the people you're having a discussion with in this thread m8 😅

I've seen you do this in other topics of simillar contention aswell where you all of a sudden refer to the third person or the "them". As if we're not all able to watch it.

come on. you're better then that I hope.
 
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Hot Tuna

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1 The fact that the position given is based on identity. Not merrit.

And
2 the fact that because its a government position.. it involves legislation and law that do directly affect whatevers below.. which is now being drafted by someone who's not there because of great work and/or credentials, but because its the right minority group.

[citation needed]
 

jetflag

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[citation needed]
and im sure he'll be happy to provide, but given he's not on very much and to prevent this thread sinking to the bottom again there's my take on it the question reads as something asked in a more plural sense anyway.

Also i'm fairly certain @Atragun91091 share a simmilar take on this.

So theres your question answered. It has jack-all to do with "fear of skin color replacement"
 

Hot Tuna

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So theres your question answered. It has jack-all to do with "fear of skin color replacement"

Not sure why that's in quotation marks as nobody said those words and I personally haven't mentioned skin colour. But then why single out the one transgender person and scramble to find some reason to discredit them? I'm sure you could find evidence of wrongdoing for every single member of government if you wanted to. Estimates put the % of trans people on the planet somewhere between 0.5-1% so based on raw stats out of, say, 150 government advisors/staff it shouldn't be any surprise that one of them is transgender.

So you can't even be bothered to research if it's true or not and we'll just have to wait and see if someone does or doesn't return to back it up, and "that's my question answered"?

Desperately didn't want to get sucked into this thread but your earlier assertion that "woke culture is dominant in universities" is so detached from reality it's almost insulting. I have studied and worked at university campuses around the UK and visited others around Europe for almost 20 years. The most "woke" thing I can ever recall seeing is a small number of stickers and messages left over from Iraq war demonstrations in 2003.

I do sympathise with anyone struggling with their mental health. I would suggest that in regards to the issues that are coming up in this thread, a big step towards improving things would be to unplug yourself from the news website/social media matrix, and venture outside into the real world where "woke culture" has absolutely zero tangible effect on day to day life.
 

Hensmon

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I can mirror some of the stuff Tuna is saying. I went to one of the most ‘liberal’ arts universities in the UK, in a very liberal town, we all came out just fine. It turned us into weed warriors not social justice warriors. We still all thought we could change the world, with big (left) ideas, hating inequality, injustice, environmental destruction etc. That is completely normal behaviour for youth at universities, Peterson himself states that personality types on the left are far more likely to got to university, for instance. So why then use anecdotes of that expected behaviour and become so outraged when it happens, as if it’s proof that the very fabric of our society is collapsing under some marxist takeover?

There’s flexibility in the way students (and people in general) take on the ideas, they believe what they want to believe, good or bad, they learn and change anyway. I was also taught a module on post-modernism and I can assure you all the concerns and pressures I had in university as a young man not a single one of them stemmed from the ideas taught in those lessons. My friend group from that place is 30+ people, all of which are on the left, none of which feel too strongly about the current identity politics stuff. I would say they agree with some ideas and are heavily critical of other aspects of it. It's another example where a dominant idealogical force is easily reputed or fleeting, or malleable in how its adopted.

That's why I brought up my religious education/upbringing before. Not as a comparison to 'which one is worse' as you responded Jetflag, but as proof that hugely powerful idealogical forces can be easily abandoned or ignored, just like what happens regularly at universities.

There are absolutely examples where identity politics is going too far in Universities, and that’s not good. But as Tuna mentioned if you step away from the social media matrix you can separate those anecdotes from what is a real world majority context, and all of a sudden the problems being listed (although real) become more nuanced and placed much further down the list of what’s damaging our society.
 
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jetflag

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Not sure why that's in quotation marks as nobody said those words and I personally haven't mentioned skin colour. But then why single out the one transgender person and scramble to find some reason to discredit them? I'm sure you could find evidence of wrongdoing for every single member of government if you wanted to. Estimates put the % of trans people on the planet somewhere between 0.5-1% so based on raw stats out of, say, 150 government advisors/staff it shouldn't be any surprise that one of them is transgender.

So you can't even be bothered to research if it's true or not and we'll just have to wait and see if someone does or doesn't return to back it up, and "that's my question answered"?

Desperately didn't want to get sucked into this thread but your earlier assertion that "woke culture is dominant in universities" is so detached from reality it's almost insulting. I have studied and worked at university campuses around the UK and visited others around Europe for almost 20 years. The most "woke" thing I can ever recall seeing is a small number of stickers and messages left over from Iraq war demonstrations in 2003.

I do sympathise with anyone struggling with their mental health. I would suggest that in regards to the issues that are coming up in this thread, a big step towards improving things would be to unplug yourself from the news website/social media matrix, and venture outside into the real world where "woke culture" has absolutely zero tangible effect on day to day life.

some reason? I would think catastrophic state mismanagement of resources and personel during a health pandemic in one's state isn't just some reason. Nobody argues sainthood of anyone here.

the problem/ point is and was that she was chosen for her identity, not her competence which is something perpetuated and pushed by woke culture, Please don't make me spell out to you why that is a terrible idea. You want the best people, regardless of their genitalia or skin color, on important leadership positions such as magaging country healthcare.

What specific universities did you visit? because I don't know what planet you live on but to assert that woke culture isn't dominant in most large western universities such as Harvard, Yale or Berkely to me is utterly baffling.

either your definition of what is Woke and woke culture is radically different from mine, or you've been spared it by sheer accident.
I've listed a couple of examples earlier such as the humanities curriculum, preferential admittance based on race or sex. I'm not talking about a few anarchy grafitty slogans here and there...

I'm hoping neither is the case to be frank and UK universities have somehow been spared. Its defo no the case for Dutch or US uni's though. can attest.