Covid and vaccines and whatnot

jetflag

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Djokovic doesn't bend the knee, and sticks to his principles of self-determination

Therefor, he's the enemy.
 

jetflag

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Speaking of principles, I've always liked Bill Maher, we disagree on occasion but I've always found him to be an actual, principled, Liberal. Someone who will always favor the person over the system.

Him calling out Trudeau’s abysmal and cowardly reaction towards his own unvaccinated citizens and by extend the Freedom Convoy is spot on.


(couldn’t find the original clip on his YT page so this mirror will have to do.)
 

dmgtz96

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Freedom Convoy
Fuck it, we'll do it ourselves.

You want 'freedom,' here is some actual freedom:

How the 'Battle of Billings Bridge' attracted hundreds of volunteers, trapped convoy for hours

As the sun was going down and the temperatures dipped, the truck drivers in the convoy were permitted a “negotiated retreat” — they were allowed to leave one at a time, but only after their trucks had been stripped of flags, and “Freedom Convoy” stickers, and surrendered any jerry cans.

The truckers don't get to have their cake and eat it, too.
 

jetflag

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You want 'freedom,' here is some actual freedom:

How the 'Battle of Billings Bridge' attracted hundreds of volunteers, trapped convoy for hours

The truckers don't get to have their cake and eat it, too.
so around a 100+ mocka latté sipping cosmopolitans where able to trap a small portion of a 10.000+ (actually peacefull) convoy who've been at it for 17 days and counting, at a single junction for a couple of hours... with sign that read "Nazi-trucks"


200w.webp


good job hungergames capital citizens! you've sure stood up for your " actual freedom" to have more unnessesairy goverment fiat thrust uppon you :LOL:
 
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jetflag

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question @dmgtz96

why do you, as a so called "liberal" hate/ stand against people who're actually standing up for their liberté against a government who's becoming increasingly demonizing and dictatorial against its rural middle class?

or are you actually of the absurd opinion that they're all transphobicracistmysogenistnazi *insert slur here?
 

dmgtz96

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question @dmgtz96

why do you, as a so called "liberal" hate/ stand against people who're actually standing up for their liberté against a government who's becoming increasingly demonizing and dictatorial against its rural middle class?

or are you actually of the absurd opinion that they're all transphobicracistmysogenistnazi *insert slur here?
I don't hate them, I just think people have the option to counter-protest against them as well. The truckers think they have widespread support, but that's not true.

Your second question is leading, and I refuse to answer it.
 
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jetflag

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I don't hate them, I just think people have the option to counter-protest against them as well. The truckers think they have widespread support, but that's not true.

Your second question is leading, and I refuse to answer it.
fair enough. my second question was posted in a bit of anger. So apologies for that.

The counterprotest being actual freedom in your view but what the truckers are standing up for/against somehow not or less I do find incredibly silly.

concerning widespread support however. What makes you think they have less support then "they" think? they've already overturned the conservative party, and there's a hell of a lot more ottowa local supporters then counter protesters.
 
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dmgtz96

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fair enough. my second question was posted in a bit of anger. So apologies for that.

The counterprotest being actual freedom in your view but what the truckers are standing up for/against somehow not or less I do find incredibly silly.
Touche
concerning widespread support however. What makes you think they have less support then "they" think? they've already overturned the conservative party, and there's a hell of a lot more ottowa local supporters then counter protesters.

They're not going to get many sympathizers when Ottawan residents are having their livelihoods interrupted because the truckers are honking their horns all the time. The truckers are treading the fine line between what is illegal (harassment etc.) and what is not, which is why the police have not been able to do much yet.
For the above point, you could argue that taking a peaceful stand against the truckers (which presumably have the support of the police) is more of an act of freedom compared to what the truckers are doing. But YMMV, and I didn't have that in mind when I wrote my above comment.

so around a 100+ mocka latté sipping cosmopolitans where able to trap a small portion of a 10.000+ (actually peacefull) convoy who've been at it for 17 days and counting, at a single junction for a couple of hours... with sign that read "Nazi-trucks"

good job hungergames capital citizens! you've sure stood up for your " actual freedom" to have more unnessesairy goverment fiat thrust uppon you :LOL:
At the core of the counter protest is the daily disruption of Ottawans' lives. From what I've read online, people are actively avoiding downtown, have a difficult time sleeping, and some residents can't even get proper medical care due to the blockades (or have to trek in the cold to be able to visit a physician). Ideology also plays a part, but if I were an Ottawa resident I would be much more pissed off that my daily life is being disrupted.
There's only so much the Ottawan residents/counter-protesters can do. The moment they do anything to the trucks or even hint the slightest violence, the moment the police will show up.

For what it's worth, a "freedom convoy" in a large metro area in the US wouldn't fly. The truckers will pretty much see people shooting at their tires and destroying their trucks. Americans won't fuck around.
 
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jetflag

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They're not going to get many sympathizers when Ottawan residents are having their livelihoods interrupted because the truckers are honking their horns all the time. The truckers are treading the fine line between what is illegal (harassment etc.) and what is not, which is why the police have not been able to do much yet.
For the above point, you could argue that taking a peaceful stand against the truckers (which presumably have the support of the police) is more of an act of freedom compared to what the truckers are doing. But YMMV, and I didn't have that in mind when I wrote my above comment.
What the truckers are doing is peacefully stand against a government that wants to strip them of their human and charter rights and basically wants a mandate to rape them and their families, plenty of vaccinated truckers and sympathizers at the protest. This isn't about vaccination rate, its a human rights/government fiat issue.

the residents are protesting against annoying honks.

which at the very least, the truckers are willing to negotiate on since their beef is with trudeau and his elk, not them. sorry, no, I don’t see how you can in anyway think the latter is somehow more of a “freedom” cause. and yes, the honks are annoying, they're meant to be. Or to quote one from of my favorite lolcows:

“The whole point of protesting is to make ppl uncomfortable. Activists take that discomfort w/ the status quo & advocate for concrete policy changes. Popular support often starts small & grows. To folks who complain protest demands make others uncomfortable... that’s the point.”

No pillaging, looting, arson whatever has been conducted on the side of the truckers. The only actually violence act so far has been entirely one sided, namely one antifa child molestor who decided to ram his car in a pro trucker stand “because the truckers are duh evul nazi’s" hospitalizing 4 and has been consequently arrested and locked up thank god.


At the core of the counter protest is the daily disruption of Ottawans' lives. From what I've read online, people are actively avoiding downtown, have a difficult time sleeping, and some residents can't even get proper medical care due to the blockades (or have to trek in the cold to be able to visit a physician). Ideology also plays a part, but if I were an Ottawa resident I would be much more pissed off that my daily life is being disrupted.
There's only so much the Ottawan residents/counter-protesters can do. The moment they do anything to the trucks or even hint the slightest violence, the moment the police will show up.

At the core is peacefully protesting at the governments doorstep, where they can’t ignore you anymore, which is what they have been doing for the past couple of years. Plee’s and dialogue have remained unanswered by a priminister who sees them as “deplorables”.

- This is why the truckers have not on mass been arrested,

- This is why they shuffle snow in residential areas so Amulances and emergency services can pass,

- This is why they’ve been cooking free Pizza’s and other foods for the homeless and/or any other Ottowa resident.

- This is why they don't fight the police but instead exchange hugs.

- this is why after dialogue with the counterprotests (a dialogue?..imagen that) the truckers have largely pulled out of residential areas or at least stopped honking in the late hours there.

- This is why Ottowa’s own tow truck companies, the residents if you will, are refusing to tow the trucks despite government screetching, who now have to resort to buying their own, except no-one will sell. :ROFLMAO:

- This is why the chief of police recently resigned because he cannot in good conscious “ just follow orders” anymore by stealing sorry, "confiscating" firewood and gasoline so the truckers may freeze to death in their verhicles.

They’re actually peacefully protesting , and Trudeau can’t stand it, because it makes him look like a cowardly awfull dictator, which he is at this point in time.


again, I find it weird to see you on the side with the cosmopolitans/politicians/establishment in this scenario.. It could be our respective internet sources, who knows.

For what it's worth, a "freedom convoy" in a large metro area in the US wouldn't fly. The truckers will pretty much see people shooting at their tires and destroying their trucks. Americans won't fuck around.
Great! so now you're stuck with stuck trucks and/or a huge pile of untowable toxically smoking and smouldering metal pile on the road. well done.(y) This is precisely what makes these protest effective. They're not just going to go away simply because you're annoyed. you'll have to talk to/engage with them.
And are we talking about the same American metro areas who saw this happen to their respective towns 2 years back? they are now all of a sudden going to end up shooting and slashing.. because honks
iu


Well, you’re the American out of the two of us here 🤷‍♂️, but I for one ignorant dutchman highly doubt it, 😅 we'll see i guess.

Plus, there already has been a large convoy to my knowledge passing through America but seeing as the epicenter is in Canada that’s where the support is flowing. Plenty of American towns have been passed along the way. Where were all the slashed tires and shot truckers exactly?

And finally...what exactly makes you think your average American trucker won’t carry? Last I checked (but I could be wrong) a truck of that size, which is a defacto home for these people, is also private property. They’re not parking/honking on your driveway, they’re parking in public streets.
 
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jetflag

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Bit harsh, no?
No, I genuinly consider penetrating and injecting someone's body against their own valition and will with...whatever an act of rape, especially in this day and age where a mere shouldertap can already lend you a sexual misconduct courtcase. And I don't care how government institutions are now thinking they can somehow backwardly rationalize that its not.
If we want to keep the arguments logical, shouldn't we watch the language we use and be as precise as possible?
At the very, very least, its an act of harassment and violent bodily harm opinion wise, and it is a voilation of charter/human rights in the canadian context.
 
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Gagi

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To me it's just using big words and being dramatic and overexaggerating to justify your beliefs and prove your point (and gather supporters - nobody wants to be raped, right?). Something politicians also do.
 

jetflag

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To me it's just using big words and being dramatic and overexaggerating to justify your beliefs and prove your point (and gather supporters - nobody wants to be raped, right?). Something politicians also do.
how would you define having your bodily autonomy and human rights violated by someone forcing a needle with a substance you don't want inside you in a "politically correct manner" then?

if the word rape is somehow more offensive then that act in this context then I'd very much like to hear a fitting alternative.
 

Gagi

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It's not that it's offensive or politically incorrect. It's just that it's not precise, only inflammatory. I understand there might be some emotions involved, but I'd rather keep these kind of discussions as factual as possible. Otherwise we're all just misdirecting and increasing our frustrations, from both sides, not hearing the others, and I don't think it solves much.
 

jetflag

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It's not that it's offensive or politically incorrect. It's just that it's not precise, only inflammatory. I understand there might be some emotions involved, but I'd rather keep these kind of discussions as factual as possible. Otherwise we're all just misdirecting and increasing our frustrations, from both sides, not hearing the others, and I don't think it solves much.
this has nothing to do with emotions or misdirection. This is (on my part at least and from where i'm sitting) a perfectly reasonable or "logical" deduction/classification.

In 2007 here in NL there was a court case against 3 men who, at sex parties in the city of Groningen, drugged their victims after them having initially consented to sex, after which they where injected with HIV blood.

- the sex part was consensual
- the drugged against their will and being injected with substance part wasn't.

the men where charged and convicted with rape among which.

hence, I don't think its unreasonable to classify being forcefully injected against your will with a substance you don't want in your body, as an act of rape.

Change my mind, so far i've not seen any good (logical) counterargument.
 
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Daysleeper

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this has nothing to do with emotions or misdirection. This is (on my part at least and from where i'm sitting) a perfectly reasonable classification.

In 2007 here in NL there was a court case against 3 men who, at sex parties in the city of Groningen, drugged their victims after them having initially consented to sex, after which they where injected with HIV blood.

- the sex part was consensual
- the drugged against their will and being injected with substance part wasn't.

the men where charged and convicted with rape among which.

hence, I don't think its unreasonable to classify being forcefully injected against your will with a substance you don't want in your body, as an act of rape.

200.gif
 
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