Thoughts on USA this year?

jetflag

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as far as the UK is concerned the radical 'extreme' left appear mostly to be a naive and misguided younger generation, ...The extreme nature of the pink hair SJW ranting on twitter does seem less of a worry to me I have to say.

well, worry less live more, but the stats ,and that’s including the UK up and till to 2020, don’t agree with you m8. European Union Terrorism Situation and Trend report (TE-SAT) 2020
(European) politically motivated left wing terrorism is quadruple that of its right wing counterpart in almost every instance.

The US comparatively has a far bigger problem with the extreme right than the UK does, although the stats on that are somewhat skewed since violent antifa actions aren't officially considered terrorism (yet) and the majority of the 40% domestic US terrorism is anti-abortion violence (arguably religiously motivated terrorism, rather than extreme right, but that aside).

also for the record, I don’t think they’re less worrying, What i'm saying is the amounts are disproportional comparatively and there’s a lot of general tolerance/ silence towards dangerous leftist ideas/ideologies, recently demonstrated by you brushing them aside as “just few stupid people with just a few stupid ideas”. Terrorism even aside, The genocidal track record of tankie ideas throughout history doubles that of Hitler, Mussolin and Pinochet combined and are arguably as immoral and potentially more destructive as their right wing counterparts. linked recent stats just being 1 example of the effect in this day and age.

Facists/ white supremacists, like say (Radical) black identiarians like those in the US or south africa: will go after you for your born-with ancesteral history and race characteristics.
Communists/ tankies : will go after you for your born-with or earned possession characteristics.
Radical Islamists/Christians: Will go after you for you for your born-with or chosen(non) religion and level of doctrine following, (if its deviant from theirs)
and then there's the overly present (ethno) sepratists, so Spain/Ukraine etc. Who basically want their "own" country/ government, which are irrelevant to this discussion so we'll leave them in the middle for this debate.

now,

The white supremacist one seems to be the general thing most people feel understandably alarmed about, but in all practical reality, they are also the most irrelevant, (Aside from maybe the (Radical) feminists/Terfs) in terms of how they impellent policy and affect you and your daily life.

Actuall white supremacist/nazi movements are a political force that is completely expended. They haven’t gotten (and won’t get) back from their catastrophic moral, cultural and physical defeat in the mid 20th century. They have not gained and will not gain any significant political traction because they’re completely beyond the general societal moral rubicon and rightly so. Everybody and their mom including you and I hates Nazi’s. Which is why the Fascist slur is so powerful (and so often misused).

They hold 0 institutional power, No company wil hire you if you “freely” identify as one, if only for the P&R debacle. And the only reason you keep hearing about them is 1; aforementioned Lone wolfes black-swan events, which demonstrably pale in comparison to other forms of terrorism and 2; because the media/aforementioned constant head-in-the-sand autistic focus on them, and the somewhat hypocrite apologetics towards their ideological counterparts and their violent/terrorist actions. which coïncidently is also why they've been gaining some minor tracktion/number increase (at least in the US). In all Real politik sense though, The Hillary speech/Alt right and currently residing in oblivion Richard Spencer et. Co are probably as high as they’re ever going to get in terms of influence. I think that if you treat them the same way the West Boro babtist church are treated, they’ll end up the same, ebbing away into absolute oblivion and irrelevance, where they belong.

On the other side of the coin though, The far left, and i'm even leaving out the terrorist factor for now, is doing a damn sight better job of undermining and destroying lots of the sacrosanct principles on which (IMVHO) the best and most pleasant systems/set of countries on the planet are based upon. The Radical left are in politics, They’re in media, They’re in education, They’re in the boardroom of large influential companies. Where they have and currently still are very busy not "just" advocating for more government, the climate and social programs, but things like:

- restricting free speech/press and the right too ridicule certain things
-advocating for group instead of individual rights,
-advocating for race or sex privileges (either for or against),
-creating race-specific spaces/segregation,
_adocating for historical revisionism
- social distribution of wealth based on race, sex or class

etc. all in the name of "equality"

Coïndidently, facists/far right are very much in favour of most of those things,
only then for white people. Which should tell you exactly why these ideas are so dangerous inspite of the way politicians glosspaper wrap them.

Side note: if you want a comedic clip that fortunately hasn't been harammed yet, this one absolutely nails the issue and its hilarious.

I find this whole 'extreme' labelling utterly ridiculous if I’m honest, lacking substance and feeling like regurgitated sound-bites from a soap-opera media too embedded in identity politics.

Outrage equals clicks and money for a declining industry basically. Flipside Case in point: When the ethnically Black/Latino leader of the US Proud Boys is on camera denouncing white supremacy even clearer than the 16-what times Trump did over the last 4 years.. You can honestly ask yourself whether or not the pile of headlines and articles calling them “a racist extreme right white supremacy movement” is nothing more than absurd hyperbolic journo activism and intellectual dishonesty. So 100% agreed on the way the media labels things/identity politics.

It's how the Americans convince the public that free healthcare is some sort of scary 'health communism', ... banning assault rifles and small fire-arms is a good idea, yet US conservatives unthinkable.

Well yes and no. Healthcare and possesion of firearms are a whole different topic and IMO much more a result of how the US vs the Uk or Canada are setup constitutionally instead of how the media pushes back or forth. Its also a practical issue. The following video illustrates the problem why the US can't get something like an NHS of the ground.

In the UK ....Where's the integrity behind this idea of the scary Marxist take-over?

like mentioned above, its not júst things like wanting social programs and more tax the rich. though one could classify that as marxist by itself.

Its things like "hate speech" laws being introduced that forbid you from being in any way shape or form critical of Muhammad (and probably later the government), Its police arrest/ forced interregation about posting something as simple as "i don't think trans people are the same as biological human females". Its "critical race theory" which is now mandatory reading for all government personnel. Race theories, (Hitlers favorite topic by the way), Is now taught in schools and mandatory government reading m8 and its put there by people who identify as Marxists. who believe in group, rather then individual catagorisation. Because in the mind of the Marxist. you don't matter, only the sum/ group matters and its position in the dominance hierarchy towards other groups because remember, "ultimate equality" is the endgoal here.

^and that’s even going, not with a labour government, but a huge majority Tory one by the way (!) Now I live next door country from you and so feel free to colour me stupid, but I find that, as not being such a fan of marx and his destructive Philosophy of Resentment, slightly alarming to say the least,
 
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jetflag

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sorry for the long winded reply by the way @Hensmon , but i wanted to make sure I got all my points across properly.
 

dmgtz96

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well, worry less live more, but the stats ,and that’s including the UK up and till to 2020, don’t agree with you m8. European Union Terrorism Situation and Trend report (TE-SAT) 2020
(European) politically motivated left wing terrorism is quadruple that of its right wing counterpart in almost every instance.

The US comparatively has a far bigger problem with the extreme right than the UK does, although the stats on that are somewhat skewed since violent antifa actions aren't officially considered terrorism (yet) and the majority of the 40% domestic US terrorism is anti-abortion violence (arguably religiously motivated terrorism, rather than extreme right, but that aside).
We should start calling out Christians when they do this much like when we do for Muslims. I'd go as far to say that we should shun megachurch "pastors" who are more like salesmen and very much non-Christian.
Can you show me an example of historical revisionism? Or, what specifically did you have in mind? I don't think it's a bad idea to call out historical figures from the past, analyze historical events that got no attention in primary education (ex. the Tulsa race massacre in Black Wall Street), or even provide a historical account based on real but overlooked points of view (1619 Project from the NYT that won a Pulitzer). The issue is when people deliberately want to rewrite history based on accounts that did not happen or cultural appropriation, which as far as I know is more likely to happen in China (see the whole thing about Genghis Khan being 'Chinese' even though he was a Mongol). If you have any examples about revisionist history in the US or Europe, left-wing or right-wing, I'd like to know.
 
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jetflag

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We should start calling out Christians when they do this much like when we do for Muslims. I'd go as far to say that we should shun megachurch "pastors" who are more like salesmen and very much non-Christian.

Fully agreed, any Christian Pastor preaching hate or violence or "having inspired" an abortion clinic bombing should in my opinion be arrested by the FBI and trialed for terrorism, Which it is under any classical definition.
 

dmgtz96

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Fully agreed, any Christian Pastor preaching hate or violence or "having inspired" an abortion clinic bombing should in my opinion be arrested by the FBI and trialed for terrorism, Which it is under any classical definition.
Just edited my post, can you take a look at it?
 
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jetflag

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Just edited my post, can you take a look at it?

sure thing.

Can you show me an example of historical revisionism? Or, what specifically did you have in mind?
I don't think it's a bad idea to call out historical figures from the past, analyze historical events that got no attention in primary education (ex. the Tulsa race massacre in Black Wall Street), or even provide a historical account based on real but overlooked points of view (1619 Project from the NYT that won a Pulitzer).


I'm all in favor of critically analizing history and making revisions, as long as its being done honestly, completely and not ideologically, which is something the marxists aren't interrested in.

Students are instead being taught to hate their country and its history. and the effects of that are uptill the point where you see the destruction of the statues of the very people who where the first in history to abolish slavery. Or the vandalisation of the statue of the man who was the front line against facism, with "nazi" painted on top of it.

Thats not "this person was legend but probably did some things wrong in his day an age", (which is why we have monuments, to celebrate someone's achievements)

Thats: "this person did wrong in his day and age and therefor he/she should be cancelled from history"
 

dmgtz96

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sure thing.




I'm all in favor of critically analizing history and making revisions, as long as its being done honestly, completely and not ideologically, which is something the marxists aren't interrested in.
And Holocaust/Armenian genocide deniers, plus deniers of many of the atrocities committed over the years.

Students are instead being taught to hate their country and its history. and the effects of that are uptill the point where you see the destruction of the statues of the very people who where the first in history to abolish slavery. Or the vandalisation of the statue of the man who was the front line against facism, with "nazi" painted on top of it.

Thats not "this person was legend but probably did some things wrong in his day an age", (which is why we have monuments, to celebrate someone's achievements)

Thats: "this person did wrong in his day and age and therefor he/she should be cancelled from history"
I disagree with the first sentence. I don't think many employed History school teachers are actively going out of their way to make students hate their country and its history. If anything, you could make the case that not enough is taught in elementary/middle/high school classes about the injustices of the past, as there is a lot of content to cover in general. The left radicalization you see is probably coming from social media/news echo chambers and universities. It's not like university students are seeking out and taking history classes from #woke professors, though - the students do that to themselves.
When it comes to removing statues from the Confederacy, I don't see the issue. You can call it "revisionist" if you'd like. Let university students decide if they want a statue commemorating a shady figure from the past, even if that figure founded the university. Don't destroy it - just move it somewhere else and place something more relevant to today's era. Let the public decide if it wants to move or tear down a statue in public grounds.
Those historical figures don't have to be removed from history books. If a society does not want to keep commemorating a historical figure, though, why keep it there?
I don't know about the "nazi" vandalism, unfortunately, so I can't comment on it.
 

jetflag

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And Holocaust/Armenian genocide deniers, plus deniers of many of the atrocities committed over the years.

yup

I don't think many employed History school teachers are actively going out of their way to make students hate their country and its history. If anything, you could make the case that not enough is taught in elementary/middle/high school classes about the injustices of the past, as there is a lot of content to cover in general.

Well teachers are just supposed to teach the curriculum which is written and mandated by the institute called government, and when we compare far right v far left, the latter is far more dominant not onl in presence but ideology. And I 100% agree with the last part, my issue with it is that when the latest revised curriculum dicates high school students be taugh about autrocities of said history, its, at least in NL's case, exclusivly about things like the spice/slave trade and its autrocities at sea, and virtually nothing around that.

There is for instance virtually no context given as to how the slaves that where bought & sold got to be slaves in the first place. They were just "bought and transported" as if thats the whole relevant context when talking about the first defacto world-network of trade and commerce.

From who did "we" buy the 12 million (1) slaves, and how did they get their hands on them in the first place?

you don't just get to morally trail the buyer of a stolen jacket and not also comdemn the thief.

Its a bit like saying "well Hitler just rose to power chat that, next chapter: the holocaust", Completely leaving out the 1e world war and post hoc Weimar republic.

Now the VOC did make their own slaves, mostly from POW's, in small numbers, but If you goal is to provide students with an accurate, unfiltered and unbaised view of the dark pages of history, you would assume thats something at least worth mentioning. Both my parents are teachers who think this is actually quite outragious. And the excuse as to why goes something like "well you can't include everything" ok well if thats your excuse then why shouldn't that be a valid one for the original curriculum? you can't have it both ways.

be complete and critical in your history? fine, then be complete and critical.

The left radicalization you see is probably coming from social media/news echo chambers and universities. It's not like university students are seeking out and taking history classes from #woke professors, though - the students do that to themselves.

Well its not like they have much choice is it? political science, humanities, history studies are university fields utterly dominated by left leaning and in cases open-marxist professors. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-professors-thats-hurting-students-education/ When even a left leaning paper like the washington post calls that alarming you can honestly ask yourself how bad things actually are in terms of education. So no, they don't do that themselves. They don't get to choose from a set of professors, you just sign up for the course.


When it comes to removing statues from the Confederacy, I don't see the issue. You can call it "revisionist" if you'd like. Let university students decide if they want a statue commemorating a shady figure from the past, even if that figure founded the university. Don't destroy it - just move it somewhere else and place something more relevant to today's era. Let the public decide if it wants to move or tear down a statue in public grounds.
Those historical figures don't have to be removed from history books. If a society does not want to keep commemorating a historical figure, though, why keep it there?
I don't know about the "nazi" vandalism, unfortunately, so I can't comment on it..

Because its not up to violent revolutionairies to make that descission for "society" is it? You can vote for them to removed, properly, and if there's a strong majority of voters opposing tearing down statues honoring Washington, Jefferson, and Lincoln or moving them (, which is is, think it was rasmussen who did that poll?) you can vote again next year. you don't just get to destroy them in a temper tantrum because you as a marxist don't get your way instantly.
Second, what starts with statue toppling, ends with book burning. We've seen that happen countless times in simmilar revolutions. Why? Because anything in the way of "utopia" is a problem to be removed. BAMN.

now if you're of the general oppinon that your country is, when all is said and done, still a good thing. So basically the patriot position (which i tend to hold I don't know how about you hensmon) I don't see how you can be in favor of things like this. Why would you support, endorse or just allow a violent anarchist revolutionairies/ideas if you don't actively dislike your country and like to see it changed radically?
 
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TRANCEBLASTER

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All standup comedians. George Carlin is the master I think, but people take him as a prophet rather than a brilliant comedian that he is. Just look at this video.

Cool guy, but I'm here more into Ian Mckaye's opinion
 

jetflag

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:ROFLMAO: (y)
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jetflag

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Oh i saw that before hand m8. this is just a Perfect example of Poe's law.

Its amazing how the satire is so close on point that the subject in question cant even tell the difference between mockery and disinformation anymore.
 
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dmgtz96

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USA elections ~tomorrow~. I don't know what is going to happen, or who will win. It looks like the younger generations are giving dinosaur Republicans and conservatives a run for their money.
 

jetflag

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One of them is fascist,

Speaking of Poe's law, I honestly can't tell if satire or serious

so i'm going to assume its the first in good faith and just lmao :ROFLMAO:
 
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