UFOs and Aliens

[Jetflag]

Thinking about the aliens visiting us for gas theory again...I saw it mentioned before that because our system has no unique, rare or special resources they have no reason to visit for that purpose. I am not sure about that.

I think its the wrong perspective. It's not a matter of special resources, just a matter of convenience, like visiting the only gas station on the long road in the desert. Gas is a common commodity, but at a point and place in time it's simply required to stop there. A traveller may not have Earth as a destination but the proximity relevant to the route makes sense. With such gaps in between systems it seems very likely you would need to stop at places along the way. Routes would probably be mapped to pass locations with wide material options. That will apply to every system probably, but it all comes down to the road you are taking.

Good point, a convinient gas-stop along the way between systems basically.

i would still posit that the aliens in question wouldn’t go all the way to the inner planets as it’s simply more efford then it’s worth for a mere gas stop, and mine the resources near the Jovian moons or Saturn. The former also having plenty of (smaller) gravity assist bodies should they benefit from that drive wise

but fair point non the less

 

[Spacetime]

What if they need water. Some moons have water, but under deep layers of solid ice or rock. Earth is the only surface and stable water body in the solar system. If they need this then we are the best stop.

If they need instead something from Jupiter, and already have the technology to make the trip across different solar systems, then popping over to see Earth would be like walking to the shop next door. I don't see it being any significant effort.

Not to dwell on this too much. Someone (who wasn't you) originally declared that aliens have no reason to visit earth, but simple thought exercise shows otherwise, whether practical or inquisitive. The galaxy may even be dangerous place, and UFOs may be probes making quick analysis of the species technological capabilities. I wouldn't pretend to know other life forms motives either way.

 

[Jetflag]

What if they need water. Some moons have water, but under deep layers of solid ice or rock. Earth is the only surface and stable water body in the solar system. If they need this then we are the best stop.

If they need instead something from Jupiter, and already have the technology to make the trip across different solar systems, then popping over to see Earth would be like walking to the shop next door. I don't see it being any significant effort.

Not to dwell on this too much. Someone (who wasn't you) originally declared that aliens have no reason to visit earth, but simple thought exercise shows otherwise, whether practical or inquisitive. The galaxy may even be dangerous place, and UFOs may be probes making quick analysis of the species technological capabilities. I wouldn't pretend to know other life forms motives either way.

Well Water is one part hydrogen two part oxygen. So you only need to collect or distill those to make water..

but even still asteroids in the belt and the exoplanets before the Jovian system will provide you with plenty of ice to simply chop off and melt.

the problem with earth as a source for minerals or elements is also that you’re very likely to end up in a nuclear arms conflict with the dominant species there, if you just decide to come over and nick stuff

 

[LostLegend]

Good point, a convinient gas-stop along the way between systems basically.

That’s essentially *spoiler alert* the plot to Arthur C Clarke’s ‘Rendezvous With Rama’
(I’m currently reading the second one!)

Quite the reality check for humanity, for which everything changes, to find that Rama is essentially doing a quick fly-by of the sun for a refuel before heading back out on its millennia long journey.

Great books, highly recommended!

 

[Jetflag]

That’s essentially *spoiler alert* the plot to Arthur C Clarke’s ‘Rendezvous With Rama’
(I’m currently reading the second one!)

Quite the reality check for humanity, for which everything changes, to find that Rama is essentially doing a quick fly-by of the sun for a refuel before heading back out on its millennia long journey.

Great books, highly recommended!

Thomas bronzwaer remade the O’Neil cylinder from that book in 3D if I’m not mistaken

 

[Juna]

The man of the hour

 

[Manofearth]

I saw this today in my twitter feed. It is a quote from a US congressman after leaving a classified environment to review UAP evidence. It helped me realize how I feel on this topic so I’m going to vocalize.

Something highly unusual is clearly and obviously operating in the skies. Every single person and institution brought in so far on the matter concludes this. Frankly it has to be total denial to believe nothing is happening here. Commenters who are insisting UAP are absolutely nothing or "normal" are no different than those insisting they are spectacularly abnormal (alien). I only commented in defense of Leob before because the 'criticism' of him was so asinine that it comes across as byproduct of said denial.

I don’t care what Dr Leob believes. Extraterrestrial is still and by far the LEAST LIKELY reason for the vehicles, and that's how I feel. However to flippantly ignore the evidently growing number of credible and respectable voices, ones that are in best position to know what’s what, who claim otherwise, is pure bias or denial in the face of facts. If you want to be immature an lump this endless number of institutions and individuals together into some grand and completely non-sensical alien hoax conspiracy - to which there is not a shred of evidence for - in order to reconcile this then by all means keep the fingers in the ear and head in the sand while rest of the adults thankfully continue to take this topic seriously.

Personally my belief is that what we are witnessing is the uncovering of a military or aerospace company who have made a significant scientific breakthrough, one that has allowed them to construct technology that goes far beyond what we in the public sphere consider to be remotely achievable. God help us if it actually turns out to be China flying these.

This is what the pilots are seeing and discussing in congress, and these are the programs that Grusch is providing evidence from. For whatever reason, his interpretation is alien. Maybe because the tech is so abnormal he mistakes it as such, or maybe because he is being fed a line in order to obfuscate and confuse away from the reality. But one of those must be taking place and clearly with enough credibility and conviction behind it to convince the entire US gov to go as far as to write laws about “non human” vehicle transparency. If there’s even the remotest 1% chance his assessment is actually correct, the every ounce of seriousness and attention should be focused on confirming it, because the implications are beyond imagining. We need answers, not denial. It would completely change the world.

 

[TwinSilo]

Well fucking said. I disagree with you that UAP are solely from huge leap in black budget programs. Grusch is obviously telling the truth and correct in what he found out, which means we’ve had non human technology for at least 70 years. Who knows what we developed ourselves from having access to that.

Btw the current head of the Pentagon’s UAP office Kirkpatrick (who steps down end of year) shared similar views recently to what you posted…

 

[Hensmon]

Agree with most of what you said @Manofearth, and get the frustration on the slow progress to the truth. Absolutely agree that it's obvious UAP represent something physical and are under intelligent control, no one credible disagrees with that fact, and thankfully even the sceptics are moving past that now too.

Whether this is non-human, or hyper advanced foreign or US tech is up for debate, but those are the only options. There's quite a lot of evidence for the former and so far not a single piece for the latter...but nothing definitive either way yet.

I know you mentioned you don't like conspiracies but unfortunately its unavoidable however you choose to look at it; Either 1. the most obscure conspiracy ever conceived, as 100's of individuals at the highest levels across the world aim to trick everyone aliens are visiting (no evidence so far), or 2. an unaccounted branch of the military and private defense sector have been operating without oversight and hiding the biggest secret in human history (overwhelming evidence to be true).

 

[Jetflag]

No. Those are not the only two options.
There is still a valid third option

massive government psyops

In where the goal ís, as Eric Weinstein recently aptly put it, uncertainty (or misdirection)

 

[Spacetime]

I watched Steven Spielburg’s new UFO or “UAP” documentary on Netflix this last week, just out of pure fun and typical Sunday boredom.

Interesting and head scratching m stories aside, to bring up again the topic of why aliens would visit earth I share what thr nasa scientist they interviewed mentioned, mainly how UAP are being frequently seen in the ocean or entering/leaving the ocean. His point was that stable H20 oceans are great and safe places to keep their vehicles, as temperatures and pressures within water oceans typically will be producing stable and manageable ranges of environmental variables, as opposed to atmospheres and surface level conditions which can produce extreme temperatures and pressures. It’s likely the water oceans are similar across planets so end up being quite good for some rest time. The analogy would be a human in a car choosing to stop inside a heated garage instead of the raging blizzard outside. A nice concept I hadn’t thought of.

 

[TwinSilo]

2023 was huge year for UAP and disclosure, I never expected so much progress to be made. The different congressional hearings across the world, whistleblower protection laws, Grusch's testimony and also the writing of the new amendment titled The UAP Disclosure Act of 2023. This bill outlined the formation of a presidential panel of 9 individuals, made up of physicists, theologians, economists, sociologists etc to outline a plan to disclose what UAP are over a 7 year time period. Planned transparency and disclosure!

It also wrote that any government institution, private contractor or defense organization must hand over any UAP material that is specifically of "non-human origin" to congress and has 180 days to do so. Mention of aliens literally written into US law.

And 2024 has already started well. The inspector general who reviewed and audited Grusch's and the 30 other witnesses evidence met with 16
members of the House Oversight Committees in a SCIF (secure classified facility) to go through it. Reminder that the IG has already publicly stated his evidence as "credible and urgent". The HOC members spoke of gaining "more clarity", seeing a "clear cover-up" and with one saying that it has "confirmed what I thought [that UAP are non human]". They are planning more congressional hearings.

If Grusch and co had no evidence, or what they provided was baseless, the response from the HOC would the opposite. It would be "he's lied to us, there's nothing there". But like the Inspector General, they all believe him. Funny that.

 

[Jetflag]

This bill outlined the formation of a presidential panel of 9 individuals, made up of physicists, theologians, economists, sociologists etc to outline a plan to disclose what UAP are over a 7 year time period. Planned transparency and disclosure!

 

[TwinSilo]

Why did you bold out theologians?

 

[Jetflag]

Why did you bold out theologians?

I find it immensely telling....

In the context of gullibility, systems of belief, and (religious) institutions specifically build for that…

…That a government, who for nearly a century has been, unwilling, unable, incapable(?) and extremely protective about providing any substantial, verifiable or properly testable explanation/evidence regarding UAP’s, whilst simultaneously being strangely incompetent and remarkably forgiving (no Assange or Snowden’ing going whatsoever concerning this topic and its alleged “immense secrecy”) in periodically leaking “stories” , individuals and vague imagery to venture out into the world and have their say….

…is now promising that “yes.. no. THIS time around people.., in 7 (wut?) years orso, we actually WILL disclose what UAP’s really are, wink, wink, nod, nod, pinky swear”

"and for that we have planned for you a panel where we, next to economists (?) and sociologists (err?) have included “experts” of the Gospel"

a.k.a. Priests.

yes my dudes: we need people with Bible/Koran/Bhagavad Gita knowledge to explain to you what UAP's are..

I truly think, and I don’t mean this in a mean way, but in an honest, tough-love one @TwinSilo ,that you and others of your conviction are being had/ led by the nose here…. (NOTE! this is aside from whether or not Aliens might or might not factually exist by the way)

This is a textbook example of setting up “A tail to Wag the Dog”

 

[TwinSilo]

If you can’t even acknowledge and agree on something so basic and obvious such as the relevance of the religious perspective in a alien disclosure scenario, then I can only assume you’re no longer discussing in good faith with me anymore. I know you aren’t this stupid, so what’s going on here? Surely we can all mutually accept that the implications for millions of deeply religious people would be immense, possibly threatening to their faith? A single theologian then, amongst 8 other specialists is logical and normal. There’s no point of contention or conspiracy here…

 

[Jetflag]

If you can’t even acknowledge and agree on something so basic and obvious such as the relevance of the religious perspective in a alien disclosure scenario, then I can only assume you’re no longer discussing in good faith with me anymore. I know you aren’t this stupid, so what’s going on here? Surely we can all mutually accept that the implications for millions of deeply religious people would be immense, possibly threatening to their faith? A single theologian then, amongst 8 other specialists is logical and normal. There’s no point of contention or conspiracy here…

Nonsense.

The concept of Aliens and the idea of visitations has been around in (pop) culture all around the world for ages now, its well embedded. What do you expect this "expert" to bring to the table precisely other then "here's what you should tell your followers, Imams, Rabbi's Priest, Clerics and Shamans: "actually, Aliens where in *insert book here* all along! just look a this meriad of multi-interpretal passages here and here" ? and speaking of which shouldn't you want one from each of the top 6 main faiths on the planet at the very least then?

Clerics and holy men all around the globe are prefectly up to the task of massasing in uncomfortable truths about the nature of reality, and have been for eons, during every Zeitgeist shift. (The earth being round, invention of planes, Moonlanding etc. ) same goes for economists by the way, what are they going to contribute..wrongly predict another crash again?

To, as a government, suggest you need 7 years to assemble an "expert" panel/ person for that is nonsensical, I don't know how else to put that to you.

What the CIA/government need to do (if they genuinly have and want to conceal said "truth") is childishly simple:

*PROVE IT*

-You don't leave out convinient sections in your reports and/or leaks.
-You don't go "wellll. . we need more funding and research and all that but in the mean time listen to this new version of an ad naseaum story we've heard over and over again."
-You don't need these absurd promises of in 7 years needing to assemble this "expert panel to reveal it"

you just, properly, prove it.

And i'm actually surprised to see a stounch believer such as yourself putting up with this so gullibly... are you.. speaking of bad faith.. so blinded by your desire for this to be true and wanting it so badly.. that you cannot see a carrot on a stick, and a bad one at that, dangling in front of you like that?

This isn't me arguing in bad faith, its me pointing out things that are blatently ridiculous and/or blatently obvious.

If I where arguing in bad faith with you I would sheepisly and enthousiastically go along with everything you post whilst sniggering from behind my keyboard.

 

[Hensmon]

Funny enough just listened to a presentation from Colonel Karl Nell yesterday, and he also believes there is a religious component to disclosure. He headed the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency (we'll add his name to the conspirators list).

"We want disclosure through a controlled process, we want it in a way that doesn’t cause societal collapse. Like Eric Klyne talked about in 1177 BC, the system collapse of all the ancient societies. This is the order of concern about what may be happening...We have to address the technical, religious aspects of this.”

Hard to say to what degree religion or society would actually be shaken, if at all. Probably would. Either way, the two Senate Majority Leaders who wrote the UAP Disclosure Bill obviously felt that religion potentially might be impacted enough to include what they did. Agree with TS, there is nothing to contest or get caught up on with that particular point.

 

[Archon]

How very scientific would it be of the religions to update their religious texts and beliefs with current/future findings...

 

[Jetflag]

there is nothing to contest or get caught up on with that particular point.

would that be in or excluding the fact that they apparently need

7 fucking years

for that?