UFOs and Aliens

[Bobby Summa]

you wanting to believe, does not make it so m8. Sorry

That’s actually the point im trying to make. Did you mean to tag anyone in that comment?

 

[Jetflag]

That’s actually the point im trying to make. Did you mean to tag anyone in that comment?

Oh no it’s more of a general statement. As in; yes, we agree on that

 

[Katadunkass]

 

[Jetflag]

Will check this later and subscribe probs, I like the dude, makes interesting content

 

[Hensmon]

That video is embarrassing @Katadunkass and I'll show you why.

He spends 50% attacking Avi Leob, calling him 'unscientific'; Harvards literal head of Astrophysics ffs! Not only was Avi's first paper on Oumuamua compelling, but he then followed up with a 2nd paper months later which completely dismantled the criticisms and counter explanations provided.

Then this year, he believed that an object that burned up in the atmosphere and crashed in the ocean was interstellar in origin and possibly technological too. This was due to the unique characteristics it displayed when burning up into the atmosphere. On came the ridicule and criticism. He was told it was a "waste of time and money", that the evidence "shows it cannot be interstellar"...

Well guess what, he went on an expedition into the ocean and for the first time in Earth's history he found and confirmed the interstellar object - published in August. He is continuing to study it to see if it is also technological. He's literally made history.

The video really is absolutely pathetic attempt to discredit and dismiss a wonderful, curious scientific mind, who just made scientific history with an unprecedented discovery, proving every critic wrong so far. Interesting how you all want evidence of alien visitation and when someone provides it in 2 papers you easily swallow that he's 'un-scienftic' and 'gone nuts' because some Youtuber tells you. Why not actually listen to Avi Leob instead and form your own opinion?

 

[Jetflag]

Well.. now I’m definitely going to watch it heh..

Hopefully the monsters will give me half an hour free time in the afternoon

might skip the subscription based on my findings though

 

[Katadunkass]

That video is embarrassing @Katadunkass and I'll show you why.

He spends 50% attacking Avi Leob, calling him 'unscientific'; Harvards literal head of Astrophysics ffs! Not only was Avi's first paper on Oumuamua compelling, but he then followed up with a 2nd paper months later which completely dismantled the criticisms and counter explanations provided.

Then this year, he believed that an object that burned up in the atmosphere and crashed in the ocean was interstellar in origin and possibly technological too. This was due to the unique characteristics it displayed when burning up into the atmosphere. On came the ridicule and criticism. He was told it was a "waste of time and money", that the evidence "shows it cannot be interstellar"...

Well guess what, he went on an expedition into the ocean and for the first time in Earth's history he found and confirmed the interstellar object - published in August. He is continuing to study it to see if it is also technological. He's literally made history.

The video really is absolutely pathetic attempt to discredit and dismiss a wonderful, curious scientific mind, who just made scientific history with an unprecedented discovery, proving every critic wrong so far. Interesting how you all want evidence of alien visitation and when someone provides it in 2 papers you easily swallow that he's 'un-scienftic' and 'gone nuts' because some Youtuber tells you. Why not actually listen to Avi Leob instead and form your own opinion?

I just posted it in here because it fits the thread - picture me as the devil who throws wood into the fire, but doesn't really care how big it gets

 

[TwinSilo]

He also rips into testimony evidence and then 5 minutes later uses a testimony to attempt to discredit Leob

His first point is also so incredibly stupid, saying how if Grusch had any real evidence why not just leak it like Edward Snowdon...what, the man who had to flea his home country to Russia to avoid being tried for treason? Obvious why Grusch has not revealed classified information he's not been cleared for.

 

[Jetflag]

He also rips into testimony evidence and then 5 minutes later uses a testimony to attempt to discredit Leob

His first point is also so incredibly stupid, saying how if Grusch had any real evidence why not just leak it like Edward Snowdon...what, the man who had to flea his home country to Russia to avoid being tried for treason? Obvious why Grusch has not revealed classified information he's not been cleared for.

Snowden brought evidence to the table,
Grusch said “people told me so”

 

[Jetflag]

So..watched the video, and he’s hardly “attacking” loeb 50% of the time. It’s more like 20 given the whole video/ context and on the particular subject of him calling some of his claims out on as unscientific, he’s actually right.

Having referenced oumuamua and the relevant papers in the past i actually took hens advice and re-read the papers loeb published and well…they’re good. Sound methodology, proper peer review, conclusion sketches a compelling case for oumuamua being interstellar aswell as the recent object that crashed in the sea..

So far so good. And then I went and listened some of his podcast appearances including said link and kyles point of him flirting/ outright leading the evidence to the idea of it being a technological spacecraft or aliens with 0 evidence to sustain that comes out like a pigeon out of a black hat.. the fantasy v innuendo button goes a level up to say the least..making all sorts of grandiose innuendos to his congregation “ alien origins maybe?” And “ technological markers” etc.

Loeb’s claim that’s it is or might be technological in IS unscientific..period. it’s based on squat, just assumptions. He’s infering/ leading the evidence, he doesn’t follow it. His papers are sound yes but, much like kaku , don’t cover half of the claims he’s making on podcasts and interviews and what not.

In kaku case for instance, how does mathematical geometric theory tie into alien biology and ufos again?

And this is the problem with you people in the ufo religion, since you, hens, brought up “you pesky evidence seekers” , You take one straw of scientific plausibility that something, most likely an odd shaped asteroid, might not have originated from our local cluster and immediately Hiroshima blow that up as “proof” that it’s populated by extraterrestrials, physics has been broken and people have all along been abducted by little green men from their bedrooms.

“Please please oh holy x science pope of my choosing, stroke my confirmation bias” Basically. This has nothing to do with you allegedly being more open minded. This is about you wanting to believe, and finding any excuse for it.

And that’s just not how science or any sort of objective truth seeking works. Period. Which is also precisely what differentiates the critics/ skeptics from the ufo truthers.

We, like you, do have an honest and curious mind about this subject, if we didn’t we wouldn’t be in this thread.

• We, like you, would like nothing more then it to be true.
• Unlike you, we don’t grasp 1 bit of positive evidence in the whole body and strawman it into oblivion just to stroke our own wishful thinking.
• Unlike you, we do stick to the proper scientific method rather then leaning on preferred authority figures of our choosing.

Also, any scientist touting the claim “extraordinary claims require extraordinary funding” is in my eyes a shill that deserves to have his or her title stripped, regardless of his Harvard Pope status.

Not to say that hens doesn’t have a point here, and that Kyle does a great job either. Unlike his other vids he “debunks” it by saying it’s nonsense, rather then at the very least provide links to said papers and content for you to make up your own mind. This particular video of him is hím preaching to the choir and starkly reminds me of buzzfeed slop.

So, to summerize. Is Kyle on the mark here? Mostly yes. Does hens have a point in that’s its far from the best debunk to say the least? Yes.

Will i leave a dislike? Yes

Will i subscribe? Depends on his future content.

 

[Hensmon]

I remember originally I brought up Loeb simply to counter earlier claims that no respectable scientist takes the alien hypothesis seriously (incorrect), that there was no scientific evidence to back it (incorrect), and correct me if I’m wrong, that you believe the possibility of aliens actually being able to get to earth is essentially zero (which I’m showing is not a belief shared by phyicists)?

That really was the only points I ever made. So far I’ve not mentioned once that Avi’s beliefs or papers are the definitive proof of anything, or what I base my own belief on, so not sure where you got all that from? Unfortunately something like Oumuamua could never give us a definitive answer, but could we not argue that our best assumption should be that it is technological, considering that’s what the best and only evidence suggests? Why do you assume instead that it is an asteroid when we have 2 papers that show (prove?) that it isn’t?

p.s one star awarded for not dissecting the post with 10 1 line quotes.

 

[Jetflag]

p.s one star awarded for not dissecting the post with 10 1 line quotes.

lmao

missed opportunity

 

[Jetflag]

I remember originally I brought up Loeb simply to counter earlier claims that no respectable scientist takes the alien hypothesis seriously (incorrect), that there was no scientific evidence to back it (incorrect), and correct me if I’m wrong, that you believe the possibility of aliens actually being able to get to earth is essentially zero (which I’m showing is not a belief shared by phyicists)?

It ís a belief shared by most physicists, given a certain threshold in au/ lightyears. Simply because of entropy..Perhaps I should have specified the distance factor more clearly.

Barnard star or proxima cen say is fairly doable, a planet 5000 lightyears from sol? Not so much, and the further out the closer to 0 you get, even if you where to consider something of an alien Von Neuman equivalent. And given we’ve, despite diligent probing, detected 0 alien activity in our local star cluster.. well..



The rest of my responds was to your responds on Katadunkas’s youtube post, and since you pointed fingers at my “skeptic camp” I figured my take on the opposite camp was fair. it was more a general believers v skeptics observation from my side I didn’t target your beliefs specifically,but apologies if it came across as such.

That really was the only points I ever made. So far I’ve not mentioned once that Avi’s beliefs or papers are the definitive proof of anything, or what I base my own belief on, so not sure where you got all that from? Unfortunately something like Oumuamua could never give us a definitive answer, but could we not argue that our best assumption should be that it is technological, considering that’s what the best and only evidence suggests? Why do you assume instead that it is an asteroid when we have 2 papers that show (prove?) that it isn’t?

Because we know the universe is filled to the brim with (odd shaped) asteroids or comets of which we have ample example and evidence..whereas we have only one example of an artificial object that has left its home star, namely our own voyager probe.



Now does that mean the artificial option is therefor out of the question? No. And Loebs paper does make a compelling case for why it might be. With an emphasis on might.

But when considering what is most plausible you do have to balance those out.

Basically anyone is (purely scientifically speaking) jumping the gun when claiming it is or the most plausible option in case of it being alien tech. A critique Kyle is right about.

 

[nightslapper]

that's silly c'mon guys

if there's a lifeform that mastered intergalactic travels, why would they need sending someone to our shithole with their overall level of technology (highly unlikely that they can travel though space but don't have 5G and 3D porn and all that yet)? they could have find out anything they need just by observing from a distance. after all, it's way more faster if you understand the concept of how it works with the time on the extremely large distances in space. observation works with the speed of light, any travels would've been significantly slower, and considering they if they'd send someone for thousands (millions) space years to our planet that unit would have need to not only made this long ass flight but also send some information back which doubles the time anyways.

people see shit that's true, but that's not aliens lol

 

[Spacetime]

why would they need sending someone to our shithole

I find this planet to be exceptional, not a shit hole. The beauty in all the biospheres cannot even be counted. Even if they have seen a million planets I still bet ours has something unique. And besides, humans are interesting, even to advanced life probably. We ourselves study 'lesser' lifeforms all the time, like ants and microbes. There's no way our various culture is not unique too, and if it isn't, well thats interesting too, that two different worlds separated by great distances can produce the same thing.Life by default is fascinating, its a god damn miracle actually. I think they would appreciate that quite a bit.

 

[nightslapper]

I find this planet to be exceptional, not a shit hole. The beauty in all the biospheres cannot even be counted. Even if they have seen a million planets I still bet ours has something unique. And besides, humans are interesting, even to advanced life probably. We ourselves study 'lesser' lifeforms all the time, like ants and microbes. There's no way our various culture is not unique too, and if it isn't, well thats interesting too, that two different worlds separated by great distances can produce the same thing.Life by default is fascinating, its a god damn miracle actually. I think they would appreciate that quite a bit.

that's very (overly, to me) exciting approach at pretty much everything I'd rather stay sceptical about

 

[Jetflag]

I find this planet to be exceptional, not a shit hole. The beauty in all the biospheres cannot even be counted. Even if they have seen a million planets I still bet ours has something unique. And besides, humans are interesting, even to advanced life probably. We ourselves study 'lesser' lifeforms all the time, like ants and microbes. There's no way our various culture is not unique too, and if it isn't, well thats interesting too, that two different worlds separated by great distances can produce the same thing.Life by default is fascinating, its a god damn miracle actually. I think they would appreciate that quite a bit.

thats actually a sentiment i can get aboard with.

If you are dealing with aliens who's overal mind/brain structure resembles our own in terms of hierarchy and curiousity/exploration (and thats a big if by the way)
and if you are dealing with aliens capable of space travel and/or cryosleep or life extention/anti-entropic measures that would allow them to travel c+ distances.

then earth is at the very least an interresting curiousity.

 

[TwinSilo]

Snowden brought evidence to the table,
Grusch said “people told me so”

As I said... Snowden had to leak classified information in order to do that, meaning he now faces charges of treason. Grusch I assume would rather not have to flee the country, hence why he choose not to leak classified information to the public. What he did instead was submit his evidence officially to the Inspector General, who deemed it worthy ("credible" in his words) to pass on to the House Intelligence committee, who deemed serious enough to write a amendment that targets military and private aerospace companies. Clearly there's evidence.

And as of last week we now know it was up to 30 witnesses, including those with first-hand experience, so not just "people told me so". - source

"Testimony has included both first-hand and second-hand reports of crash retrieval and reverse-engineering programs by US, Russian, and Chinese governments; the testing of materials obtained from retrieved craft; active and ongoing government disinformation operations; kinetic military action with UAPs; contact and collaboration with nonhuman intelligence (NHIs); and the successful reverse-engineering of a triangle-shaped craft with unconventional propulsion."

 

[Jetflag]

As I said... Snowden had to leak classified information in order to do that, meaning he now faces charges of treason. Grusch I assume would rather not have to flee the country, hence why he choose not to leak classified information to the public. What he did instead was submit his evidence officially to the Inspector General, who deemed it worthy ("credible" in his words) to pass on to the House Intelligence committee, who deemed serious enough to write a amendment that targets military and private aerospace companies. Clearly there's evidence.

And as of last week we now know it was up to 30 witnesses, including those with first-hand experience, so not just "people told me so". - source

"Testimony has included both first-hand and second-hand reports of crash retrieval and reverse-engineering programs by US, Russian, and Chinese governments; the testing of materials obtained from retrieved craft; active and ongoing government disinformation operations; kinetic military action with UAPs; contact and collaboration with nonhuman intelligence (NHIs); and the successful reverse-engineering of a triangle-shaped craft with unconventional propulsion."

Twin, Regardless of whether or not Snowden had the balls to face the full consequences of his desire to expose the truth and Grusch didn't, the fact remains that Snowden brought undeniable, proper, and verifibale evidence to the table. and Grusch hasn't done that so far.

and since we're talking about whats true or not, not who's braver or not, the point you're making is m00t

any amount of (second or first hand) testimonial evidence < the type of evidence Snowden brought to the table.

 

[Spacetime]

I thought about this more. Aliens could visit earth for very mundane or logical reasons. First they may just wish to catalog and move on, a simple probe or stop by to gain info and leave.

The other reason is that I am sure their technology will still need material for energy and maintenance. This is almost guaranteed. After a long trip in space stopping of to extract hydrogen from our oceans, or nitrogen from our air, whatever it is, might be needed to continue on. I would be there is a lot of valuable resources on planets like ours that would help them.