UFOs and Aliens

[nightslapper]

I thought about this more. Aliens could visit earth for very mundane or logical reasons. First they may just wish to catalog and move on, a simple probe or stop by to gain info and leave.

The other reason is that I am sure their technology will still need material for energy and maintenance. This is almost guaranteed. After a long trip in space stopping of to extract hydrogen from our oceans, or nitrogen from our air, whatever it is, might be needed to continue on. I would be there is a lot of valuable resources on planets like ours that would help them.

once again, with the laaarge distances in space, it's extremely time (and maybe resources depending on what they got) consuming, what exactly is so precious about our planet's species to arrange such expedition while with thier level of scientific and technological progress they can surely observe and gain a lot of data from the distance?

regarding the using Earth as a 'gas' station - once again if that's a really long trip they're on, the resources thay could extract (which will take a lot of time too and us hoomans would probably feel not so cool about some space wankers draining our oceans to be on time for their space hookup) won't make much difference so idk, that's too much of a Battlestar Galactica concept to me

 

[Jetflag]

not only that, but if its raw materials for fuel you want from the sol system, your best stop would probably be the Jovian system

earth for all its "uniqueness" isn't exactly texaco when it comes to (most) elements, and quick harvest ability

 

[nightslapper]

not only that, but if its raw materials for fuel you want from the sol system, your best stop would probably be the Jovian system

earth for all its "uniqueness" isn't exactly texaco when it comes to (most) elements, and quick harvest ability

yeah that too, our solar system is pretty young by the universe terms and thus it doesn't include much of the heavier elements. both hydrogen and oxygen claimed to be a pretty common thing in the universe by the current studies and for the heavier stuff it's best to consume some older cosmic objects

 

[Spacetime]

We have to disagree about Earth not being worth the visit. There are more than enough reasonably solid speculative reasons, and no reasons to assume they wouldn't. At the very least, arguing that aliens will never come to Earth because we cannot perceive a motivation to do so is a stretch too far.

And I would say monitoring from a distance is much more boring than getting up close and personal. I doubt we ourselves will be satisfied here on Earth for much longer, just looking at Mars through JPEGs forever.

 

[nightslapper]

We have to disagree about Earth not being worth the visit. There are more than enough reasonably solid speculative reasons, and no reasons to assume they wouldn't. At the very least, arguing that aliens will never come to Earth because we cannot perceive a motivation to do so is a stretch too far.

And I would say monitoring from a distance is much more boring than getting up close and personal. I doubt we ourselves will be satisfied here on Earth for much longer, just looking at Mars through JPEGs forever.

if we're talking about "getting personal with aliens" I'd rather refer to Stephen Hawking's way of seeing that it could possibly end up for us the same as for native Americans meeting Columbus and his people. nobody knows what would be on their mind, maybe we'd be like a virus for em and they decide to sanitize the planet, or maybe they would bring some of their own viruses that we'd naturally not be immune to and will just sadly die out because of that without even any purposeful harm from them?

regarding Mars, do you realize what are the conditions out there? it's not just that everything's red and dusty and the gravitation is weaker, you can't live on its surface because its atmosphere is rarefied and thus there's a strong cosmic radiation so we'd have to dig our living spaces underground. not even mentioning that the amount of radiation you'd inevitably get while traveling to Mars. with current technically progress (or, to be precise, if it's improved to the point where it's technically possible to send someone on Mars) the dose of radiation you'll get by traveling there and back again just once is nearly critical and won't allow an astronaut going to space ever again.

also the overall concept of 'ahh we humans are now bored of Mars JPEGs, let's go live there' is quite, same as 'getting personal with aliens'.. idk, fluffy, rainbowy, unicornish, not how it works in reality?

 

[Jetflag]

We have to disagree about Earth not being worth the visit.

oh I think its definitly worth the visit, just not to refuel

 

[Katadunkass]

One of my favourite podcasts, "Science vs.", just had an episode about UFO's. Worth a listen

 

[TwinSilo]

From the governments latest UFO report. High-speed vehicles that are not from the US and not from foreign countries. The mystery continues.

 

[nightslapper]

From the governments latest UFO report. High-speed vehicles that are not from the US and not from foreign countries. The mystery continues.

View attachment 1777

'we need more money for this so we can investigate the ufos further', mystery solved, cmon

 

[Jetflag]

As long as government needs money or a distraction

the mystery will continue

of that I have 0 doubt

 

[Hensmon]

Also, any scientist touting the claim “extraordinary claims require extraordinary funding” is in my eyes a shill that deserves to have his or her title stripped, regardless of his Harvard Pope status.

This is such poor take btw, and very harsh. The average cost of scientific research is between $30,000 - $50,000 (from what I could see), so in comparison any research costing let’s say 10x this amount would fall into the realm of extraordinary funding. Leob needed 250x this average for his expedition to the ocean to collect the interstellar object, which was historic and extraordinary…he’s not just stating facts but he’s actually living it

His comment is fair/reasonable and it is demonstrably true. His Galleio project (attempting to capture and classify the UAP) also needed millions for the necessary sensory equipment to have a chance at producing statistically significant data.

 

[Manofearth]

And not to ignore that every truly extraordinary discovery or attempt for extraordinary discovery in recent years has cost 100’s of millions, if not billions. See Large Hadron Collider, DNA sequencing, James Webb Telescope, ongoing dark matter research, Super Symmetry, String Theory, Fusion, cancer breakthroughs, environmental breakthroughs. Look at the last Nobel prize winners and you’ll find huge labs and research programs behind them. There’s nothing wrong with what Dr. Leob said.

I will tell you how the comment that he is a “shill” comes across. Dr. Leob has brought his credibility to the table and chosen an opennes towards these Ufo being extraterrestrial and the pseudo-skeptics who have committed themselves to dismissal and ridicule of that idea cannot reconcile that fact. They instead become like this man in the YouTube video, forced to grab at any scraps they can in order to attempt to diminish him as scientist and as a person to avoid having to open their minds to the idea they might be wrong. @Hensmon said it true, it is pathetic.

 

[Jetflag]

This is such poor take btw, and very harsh. The average cost of scientific research is between $30,000 - $50,000 (from what I could see), so in comparison any research costing let’s say 10x this amount would fall into the realm of extraordinary funding. Leob needed 250x this average for his expedition to the ocean to collect the interstellar object, which was historic and extraordinary…he’s not just stating facts but he’s actually living it

His comment is fair/reasonable and it is demonstrably true. His Galleio project (attempting to capture and classify the UAP) also needed millions for the necessary sensory equipment to have a chance at producing statistically significant data.

Yes, there is a reality of funding involved in research. Nobody including me denies that. But the Ethos of Science and any credible scientist for that matter, especially if its a communicator, which is what certainly Leob is, is:

->Nullius in Verba<-

Put up, or shut up, (don't pay up)

The fact that its begrudgingly part and parcel of the reality of doing research doesn’t mean you should therefor, especially as a science communicator, promote it. Science as a methodology is not a populist democracy, or a financial lobby for that matter.. And if science, as a method and institute is, as its striving goal, all about securing funding for the most wishfull, popular idea…then how can you, or anyone, take research ANY research flowing from that seriously?

How is that not to the core tainted by profit margin or crowd pleasing?

Its bad enough that you have companies like Malboro doing their own "research” to prove that “weeell.... we áctually can’t tell if smoking causes cancer a 100% so hey ho! Just keep smoking, its all vague and unsure sais our “objective” research”…..

But the fact that you have this guy boasting it in that yes it ís all about the money, instead of the EVIDENCE, and basterdizing a fundamental ethos of science , isn't "fair and resonable" its appauling. and he's rightly called out for it.

tháts what makes him a shill, not the fact that he's done well in securing funding for his galileo observatories which you know.. good on him.


Also, sidenote, examples that he and @Manofearth bemoan as "unfair" here are quintessential schoolbook cases of a non-comparison.

The (theoretical) frameworks, for things like the LHC and other particle colliders like it (namely quantum mechanics) is well established, and continuely build up on by the mountain of veriviable, reproducable and peer-reviewed evidence from decades of previous experimental setups, like the double slit experiment. that by the way didn't cost billions.

So... Sorry, no, the alien-UAP claim and things like quantum mechanics, quantum gravity, or cancer research are utterly mutally excluvive. You or Loeb's specific Pet-idea/desire of Life/alien tech on Oumuamua isn't on par with any of those.


And I love how this red-herring of "closed minds" is thrown under the bus again. No, the skeptic mind isn't "closed".. its not about minds being closed vs open, its about finding out what is true or not THE CORRECT WAY.



Follow the evidence, Don't lead (or wish) it. (and Kill your Darlings)

 

[Manofearth]

You are right, it’s an outrage that a scientist like Leob might talk freely about something that is true. Shocking. I agree, let’s strip him of all positions and accolades, and rightfully remove this shills inconvenient opinions on UFOs from the debate…

You really wrote an awful lot, when a simple, “ok “, I was wrong and unfair” would have sufficed.

 

[TwinSilo]

'we need more money for this so we can investigate the ufos further', mystery solved, cmon

Its' been 3 years since the US government released their report saying UAP's are real and since then only government body to receive any funding related to the topic asked for 10 million, and didn't even get that full amount. This is less than 1% of the yearly budget. You trying to tell me you believe that US intelligence is involved in an multi year, multi agency conspiracy, that involves convincing congress and the public that ALIENS ARE VISITING EARTH so they can secure funding that essentially equates to nothing. You must see that this doesn't make any sense.

 

[Jetflag]

You are right, it’s an outrage that a scientist like Leob might talk freely about something that is true. Shocking. I agree, let’s strip him of all positions and accolades, and rightfully remove this shills inconvenient opinions on UFOs from the debate…

You really wrote an awful lot, when a simple, “ok “, I was wrong and unfair” would have sufficed.

and you read an awful little.

- no, "something" isn't just true, that was the whole point. there isn't sufficient evidence to prove it is (yet). the fact that you want to believe it doesn't auto-make it so. Deal with it.
- no, nowhere have I ever stated its an outrage that he speaks, thinks or fantasizes about these things, its an outrage that he basterdizes a fundamental ethos of science, not that he pursues his theories, which i've actually kudos'd him for on previous occasions, had you bothered to read instead of project.
- no, i wasn't wrong and unfair, and nor has he been "stripped" of his inconvinient opinions, or research, or funding, infact he's louder then ever.

I get that you might be frustrated as someone who beliefs in the whole Alien UAP visiting us story, and who's Faith in this man is apparent...but thats no reason to therefor lie about whats going on, or deliberatly strawman everything i wrote.

 

[Jetflag]

Its' been 3 years since the US government released their report saying UAP's are real and since then only government body to receive any funding related to the topic asked for 10 million, and didn't even get that full amount. This is less than 1% of the yearly budget. You trying to tell me you believe that US intelligence is involved in an multi year, multi agency conspiracy, that involves convincing congress and the public that ALIENS ARE VISITING EARTH so they can secure funding that essentially equates to nothing. You must see that this doesn't make any sense.

makes perfect sense. They've so far managed to get around 10 million (!) for just making claims, 0 credible evidence has been presented. just testimonies, vague footage and second hand testimonies....thats a hell of a lot of free profit in 3 years for squat don't you think?

so yeah...correct.., they haven't been able to secure all that much funding (yet) which is precisely why they're asking for more.

 

[Archon]

Could be a bit relevant here.

 

[nightslapper]

Its' been 3 years since the US government released their report saying UAP's are real and since then only government body to receive any funding related to the topic asked for 10 million, and didn't even get that full amount. This is less than 1% of the yearly budget. You trying to tell me you believe that US intelligence is involved in an multi year, multi agency conspiracy, that involves convincing congress and the public that ALIENS ARE VISITING EARTH so they can secure funding that essentially equates to nothing. You must see that this doesn't make any sense.

yeah sure, that's my post that doesn't make any sense while there are aliens flying on their space lamborghinis all over the earth lol

 

[Spacetime]

Thinking about the aliens visiting us for gas theory again...I saw it mentioned before that because our system has no unique, rare or special resources they have no reason to visit for that purpose. I am not sure about that.

I think its the wrong perspective. It's not a matter of special resources, just a matter of convenience, like visiting the only gas station on the long road in the desert. Gas is a common commodity, but at a point and place in time it's simply required to stop there. A traveller may not have Earth as a destination but the proximity relevant to the route makes sense. With such gaps in between systems it seems very likely you would need to stop at places along the way. Routes would probably be mapped to pass locations with wide material options. That will apply to every system probably, but it all comes down to the road you are taking.