UFOs and Aliens

Jetflag

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^ So faster than light is impossible forever in your eyes?
if you still wish to go back home afterwards; Yes.

There are galaxy's causally disconnected from us who's "historical" light is redshifting away from us.
the space between us and them is expanding faster then light, making it impossible for us (or them) to ever reach one another, or communicate.

to do so would mean your "clock" would have to tick backwards, whilst you somehow still being stationairy or moving forward in time.
 
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Katadunkass

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Another thing most folks also dont seem to be able to grasp or put in their minds is:

the speed of light is not about light.

its about causality/ causal connection

this is why any hypothetical ftl is a defacto time machine that would allow one to travel back to a point in space-time before setting off and even before you where born and causally effecting that event, creating a paradox.
100% - here's a great video about it

 
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TwinSilo

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Let me say it like this; I'm definitely not willing to just accept eye-witness testimony and some satellite and half-assed image information if it means we have to turn our entire understanding of how the Universe works upside down.

You didn’t really answer the question as to why the US’s highest ranking military and intelligence officials, including two Directors of National intelligence and multiple CIA directors, are reaching different conclusions to yourself, all in alignment that the UAPs are not human. Why? That demands an explanation doesn’t it?
 

Jetflag

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You didn’t really answer the question as to why the US’s highest ranking military and intelligence officials, including two Directors of National intelligence and multiple CIA directors, are reaching different conclusions to yourself, all in alignment that the UAPs are not human. Why? That demands an explanation doesn’t it?

in my estimation: “ militairofficials” and “directors” Aren’t the most bright people when it comes to things like physics, plausibility and the nature of reality.
they’re just very effective and succesfull managers/ leaders.

They’re also very good at getting funds :sneaky:

Look, i get that these are important people and maybe you look up to them, but your argument is whats called an Ad Veracundeam.


so basically:

“The pope is a more important person then me, therefor whatever he sais or thinks on x theological subject must be true”
 
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Bobby Summa

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if you still wish to go back home afterwards; Yes.

There are galaxy's causally disconnected from us who's "historical" light is redshifting away from us.
the space between us and them is expanding faster then light, making it impossible for us (or them) to ever reach one another, or communicate.

to do so would mean your "clock" would have to tick backwards, whilst you somehow still being stationairy or moving forward in
Enlightening man! Sounds like an experience I once had 🙃
 
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Hensmon

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not impressed, and probably why the overwhelming majority of experts isn’t either. But you’re free to be if you want too

Impressed isn't really the right word. It's definitely interesting and strange effect (just look at it again), even if it is your described mach diamonds from perfectly positioned fighter jet... which it absolutely is not. The fact that the object travels with them for 100s of miles, for over 30 minutes, is proof enough of that. It also "shone beam of light across the cockpit and fuselage" and "changes position".

I think it's very interesting case and video actually. Whatever all these UAP turn out to be it shows that there are indeed very strange craft operating in the skies, in which no valid explanations (have yet) been offered. Secret military technology is definitely a viable option in UAP cases, but birds, balloons and standard aircraft it's clearly not.

And that's the core issue I have with the sceptic view, that all of the fuss on this topic; the congressional hearings and reports, pentagon programs, news interviews, claims of ET etc, is just catastrophic confusion over what's actually prosaic objects in the sky. I think that's a truly foolish and weak position tbh, with no evidence, flying in the face of rational thinking and not helped when the sceptical attempts to explain away the UAP in this manner are nonsensical and disproven (see Gimbal).
 
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Bobby Summa

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This is an interesting video about real Alien life on earth. An investigation into a place in Tibet where water does peculiar things like boil for no logical reason, where things look otherworldly, and a place that feels like it doesn’t belong here. Mansarovar. Tibet.

To some the techniques to prove it are very abstract. The most interesting thing is that I have watched over 300 Sadhguru videos and never seen him look uncomfortable apart from in this video. Sadhguru is a man who travels the world talking to politicians, scientists, psychologists, doctors and also various countries famous people in an attempt to enlighten people. He also promotes keeping the earth a sustainable place to live. Considered Enlightened himself, He’s a Yogi, the only one i bother listening to apart from the desist Osho. Whether spiritual people are an interest to you or, you (like me sometimes) think they talk clever rubbish. Because this very interesting man did this investigation, it makes me wonder what the heck is going on in in Mansarovar in Tibet.
 
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Jetflag

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Impressed isn't really the right word. It's definitely interesting and strange effect (just look at it again), even if it is your described mach diamonds from perfectly positioned fighter jet... which it absolutely is not. The fact that the object travels with them for 100s of miles, for over 30 minutes, is proof enough of that. It also "shone beam of light across the cockpit and fuselage" and "changes position".
So its totally impossible and absolutely absurd that an exhaust plume (or other light) from a jet is what we're seeing on this
very blurry, constantly in-out focus, low res footage of a light on a pitch black night that you linked above...of which there is no available radar plot or other measuring tool to determine what the actual relative position/ distance/ parallax is because:

It travelled in the same direction of the plane at around the same speed for 30 minutes, changed position and its light at some point reflected across the cockpit. :sneaky:

I think it's very interesting case and video actually. Whatever all these UAP turn out to be it shows that there are indeed very strange craft operating in the skies, in which no valid explanations (have yet) been offered. Secret military technology is definitely a viable option in UAP cases, but birds, balloons and standard aircraft it's clearly not.
Double back there...I did mention the option of a stealth aircraft earlier on, but other then that no, sorry not sorry, I don't see why the 2-go option has to be something out of the ordinairy such as " physics breaking secret militairy stuff" or "aliens visiting us"

And that's the core issue I have with the sceptic view, that all of the fuss on this topic; the congressional hearings and reports, pentagon programs, news interviews, claims of ET etc, is just catastrophic confusion over what's actually prosaic objects in the sky. I think that's a truly foolish and weak position tbh, with no evidence, flying in the face of rational thinking and not helped when the sceptical attempts to explain away the UAP in this manner are nonsensical and disproven (see Gimbal).
Extraordinairy claims (aliens, physics breaking secret tech) require extraordinairy evidence. Mundaine claims do not, the burden of proof is firmly in your camp.

other then that you are by all means free to be annoyed at my neckbeardiness and others ;) But as someone who's been involved and interrested in this topic from a young age and having been dissapointed a lot.. I find the position that this has to be physics bending secret goverment experiments or aliens a form of wishfull thinking. 🙏

but i'm happy to be proven wrong
 
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Manofearth

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Blog post from physicist Avi Leob, who was the one to study the first foreign body to enter our solar system, Oumuamua. I understand he made a case in his paper that it had artificial composition, but received push back that actually it was a hydrogen iceberg. Here is his response.

 
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Jetflag

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Blog post from physicist Avi Leob, who was the one to study the first foreign body DETECTED to enter our solar system, Oumuamua. I understand he made a case in his paper that it had artificial composition, but received push back that actually it was a hydrogen iceberg. Here is his response.

Thanks for this. @Hensmon now this^ is what I call an interresting/ impressive in case you where wondering.

Oumuamua, especially given its irregular shape and orbit (and now composition) remains quote the mystery suspected to come from the Vega region. initial radio signal detections where negative, but more are planned including (I think) something approaching lidar.
 

Jetflag

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The Director of National intelligence has a degree in physics.
And so does my uncle, and Ken Ham has a degree in evolutionairy biology,

that still doesn't make the Earth only 6000 years old.

you are still, engaging in an Ad Veracundeam fallacy..
 
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Hensmon

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Thanks for this. @Hensmon now this^ is what I call an interresting/ impressive in case you where wondering.

Yeah Oumuamua case is very cool. I remember sharing this way back in the start of the thread, and also @Gagi saying it was a disproven theory or something along those lines, probably noting the previous counter arguments which Leob is again showing to not have legs, with his second paper. That's two strong papers, from a credible scientist, where the evidence is demonstrated to point towards technological or 'alien' origin for the object.

Isn't it somewhat telling, that a brilliant astrophysicist like Leob has no hesitation in believing that intelligent life has the capacity and possibility to visit our system? He is literally arguing that case. Arm chair physicists like us can postulate our own narrow perspective on what rules and realities determine operation in the universe, where space is apparently "too big", or physics "too well understood" for intelligent life to travel here, yet the many brilliant minds within this subject are completely disagreeing with that position.
 
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Jetflag

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Yeah Oumuamua case is very cool. I remember sharing this way back in the start of the thread, and also @Gagi saying it was a disproven theory or something along those lines, probably noting the previous counter arguments which Leob is again showing to not have legs, with his second paper. That's two strong papers, from a credible scientist, where the evidence is demonstrated to point towards technological or 'alien' origin for the object.

Isn't it somewhat telling, that a brilliant astrophysicist like Leob has no hesitation in believing that intelligent life has the capacity and possibility to visit our system? He is literally arguing that case. Arm chair physicists like us can postulate our own narrow perspective on what rules and realities determine operation in the universe, where space is apparently "too big", or physics "too well understood" for intelligent life to travel here, yet the many brilliant minds within this subject are completely disagreeing with that position.
Hold on, where is Leob advocating for LIFE having the capacity and possibility to visit our system precisely?

He advocates that Oumuamua might be an artificial (alien) probe, basically the equivalent of our 1977 lauched Voyager 1. Oumuamua's age, given its (presumed) orgin/ trajectory of Vega and speed is estimated to be a hundred million years old. Thats a hundred million years of entropy. So unless the aliens are made from Bismuth-209, I don't think any life (or active tech) for that matter would have survived the trip based on Newton's 2e alone. (let alone boredom lol) he also doesn’t advocate for it to break any known physics rules.

If it is (and thats still a big if) an alien probe and if it did originate from Vega by artifical means, The (presumed) civilization that send it might also be long dead (given the "silence"of the Vega cluster/system).

So, hate to be the one to pull the breaks again , especially how we both think this is a really interresting case (for once on this topic lol 🙈) but I think you're reading more into it then Leob does.
 
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Hensmon

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Hold on, where is Leob advocating for LIFE having the capacity and possibility to visit our system precisely?

Quite a few times I think. This quote below is from his blog, and he also mentioned on Curt Jaimungal's podcast that he believed the alien hypothesis for the current UAPs mentioned in congress is viable. His Galleilo project is built off the back of that belief, it's an attempt to get data on the UAPs to prove or disprove their origin. He's also going on an expedition this year to investigate two objects that fell into the ocean, casually mentioning it could be a "probe from Oumuamua."

“Just like the congressman who made anti-gay statements for years and after retirement confessed that he is gay, it is likely that the skeptics of today will turn into believers as soon as the Galileo Project will find indisputable evidence for extraterrestrial technological objects.”

And from Michio Kaku, who also seems to believe its possible for both visitation and new physics;

"Either [the aliens are] an optical illusion of some sort, or they have a set of laws of physics beyond what we can muster. Open your mind to the possibility that they are a thousand years more advanced than us. A thousand years is nothing compared to the age of the Universe...[The possibility that they are vehicles from other planetary civilizations] now has to be put on the table.”
 
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Jetflag

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Quite a few times I think. This quote below is from his blog, and he also mentioned on Curt Jaimungal's podcast that he believed the alien hypothesis for the current UAPs mentioned in congress is viable. His Galleilo project is built off the back of that belief, it's an attempt to get data on the UAPs to prove or disprove their origin. He's also going on an expedition this year to investigate two objects that fell into the ocean, casually mentioning it could be a "probe from Oumuamua."

“Just like the congressman who made anti-gay statements for years and after retirement confessed that he is gay, it is likely that the skeptics of today will turn into believers as soon as the Galileo Project will find indisputable evidence for extraterrestrial technological objects.”

And from Michio Kaku, who also seems to believe its possible for both visitation and new physics;

"Either [the aliens are] an optical illusion of some sort, or they have a set of laws of physics beyond what we can muster. Open your mind to the possibility that they are a thousand years more advanced than us. A thousand years is nothing compared to the age of the Universe...[The possibility that they are vehicles from other planetary civilizations] now has to be put on the table.”
you're mixing a lot of stuff up here m8..

- Oumuamua, a 100 million year (maybe) probe of a (likely) dead civilization (what we where talking about)
- UAP's
-" anti-gay-statements from a closeted homosexual" and how it will prove the skeptic wrong 😅
- something Michio Kaku said.

This is one thing, going back at annoyed at the other camp ;) , that I see a lot. These are all completely seperate topics, yet in the minds of the believers somehow all pile up on the same evidence-hill of alien life allegedly visiting earth.

no, they don't.
 
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TwinSilo

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you are still, engaging in an Ad Veracundeam fallacy..

Dude you were the one that brought it up, what do you want me to say? You said that these folk are too stupid to know whats going on, that they have no idea about physics and the likes. I'm just pointing out your wrong, that the Director of National Intelligence has a literal degree in physics.
 

Jetflag

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Dude you were the one that brought it up, what do you want me to say? You said that these folk are too stupid to know whats going on, that they have no idea about physics and the likes. I'm just pointing out your wrong, that the Director of National Intelligence has a literal degree in physics.

Nothing, i'm just pointing out what (I see to be) a flaw in your logic/thinking on this.. ;) you can believe/trust whoever you want..

I said that militiary officials and directors are mostly effective leaders/good managers and hold those positions based on that, and their ability to pull funds.. not their credentials in science/physics.. She hasn't got a single paper published on the relevant subject matter, despite her 1degree.

They fact that she, and fair enough, my bad there... on, rare occasion, does holds a degree in physics as opposed to the rest doesn't change the nature of the fallacy..

An ad veracundeam fallacy is when you place your trust in the opinion of a single "important person" usually because he or she confirms a certain bias. (see: Ken Ham example)
 
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Bobby Summa

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Some good considerations that paint a positive possibility of aliens visiting earth from an article ive just read. Sky history.
I find the most interesting, alien craft like images from painting s 100’s of years ago. Because there would be little influence on an artist to imagine how one looks. Unless its the ‘Madona and Saint Giovaninno’ painting that started this all off? I also find having astronauts reporting this stuff rather interesting.




DO ALIENS EXIST? MOST COMPELLING EVIDENCE OF ALIEN EXISTENCE

Some say it’s obvious we’re not alone, others scorn the very idea and still others yet will hauntingly report their own experiences of alien probings following their casual night-time stroll through the fields of small town America. But with everything from increasingly bizarre reportings from increasingly credible sources, to basic mathematical probability suggesting the likelihood of alien life, these days, scepticism is harder won. Whatever your opinions, you may well find that the following examples have some impact on them.

ANCIENT EVIDENCE
It’s easy enough to write off much recent phenomena, quoting anything from wayward weather balloons to the perpetuation of the legend and UFO sightings in pop culture providing a cohesive image of extra terrestrials for eye witnesses to draw on should someone cry alien. But what’s slightly harder to dismiss is the ancient evidence (i.e. pre the National Enquirer). Enter the ‘The Madonna with Saint Giovannino’, otherwise known as the UFO painting.
Created in the 15th century, it depicts the Virgin Mary and in the backdrop of the painting, a man and his dog staring up at a hovering disk-like object that is suspiciously familiar. And this painting isn’t alone either, with everything from ancient cave paintings to Sanskrit Scrolls all depicting alien life. A sighting even crops up in the Bible in The Book of Ezekiel. Either this is compelling evidence, or humanity has a rich tradition of conspiracy theorists.

STATISTICAL DATA
Back in 1961, astronomer Frank Drake devised an equation by which he could estimate the likelihood of the existence of alien life, taking into account a number of factors including the average number of planets able to support life and the fraction that could go on to support intelligent life. This was then implemented in 2001. The result: statistically, hundreds of thousands of such planets should technically exist.

UNSOLVED SIGHTINGS
There are more registered sightings of UFOs than there is the word count here to deal with them and the majority of the time, there’s a thorough debunking accompanying them. But throughout history there have been a number that have been harder to explain away, from the to 1853 sighting by a number of students and professors at the Tennessee College campus, to the oft quoted Stephenville Lights case from 2008, with over 200 witnesses spotting the UFO including three policemen who remained anonymous. Consider these compelling cases unsolved.


ASTRONAUTS’ CLAIMS​

If you’re going to believe any reports of UFOs, you might as well trust those coming from the men who have actually been to space (who usually also come with all their teeth and a P.H.D.). The list of those who have made claims of sightings includes Edgar Mitchell, Cady Coleman and Dr. Brian O’Leary, many also referencing government knowledge of alien existence and cover-ups. Buzz Aldrin has also spoken of his own experience on board the Apollo 11 when they saw something flying alongside them. At first they thought it was the final stage of the detached rocket, until mission control confirmed it was 6000 miles away from them…

GOVERNMENT FILES
While some US presidents have released classified files on the subject of UFOs, with Jimmy Carter famously describing his own encounter, others still have been denied access to classified information on the subject altogether, Bill Clinton claiming to be among them. This has led many believers to suggest there’s a cover up afoot. Clinton has been consistently vocal on the existence of aliens and it’s worth noting his opinions on an ‘Independence Day’ situation too. You know, just in case…
—————
From Sky History
 
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